Good and evil

[HaShev]

It would be all relative.

Without a higher power .... everything is self-defined.

Realistically, evil is simply the absence of good..... just as dark is the absence of light.....

Bonzi,
however in physical light comes less gland activity thus less intuitive less knowledge and clearity of thought (spiritual darkness), while physical darkness brings more intuitive though knowledge and clear thought (spiritual light). Not everything is what it seems, discerning requires ability to recognize the subtle nuances and be able to rationalise what is truly good and evil not based on affiliation pride, human ego, or what seems good and what sems evil, which brings us back to my reply as to how we recognize right and wrong without twists, confusions, subjective opinions. Remember people twist death for life, Lucifer for Moshiach, so trusting their ability to comprehend absence of good still requires them non subjective comprehension of what is good. Otherwise affiliation pride can blind and twist even the simplest and obvious acts(actions).

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

How do we define good and evil if there is no higher power? Been thinking about this today.

What is good if there is nothing absolute? One would need to accept at least some form of natural law in the universe for their to be even and idea of good or evil. And if they don't exist, then how can we claim any action is good or evil?

This fails as an appeal to ignorance fallacy.

The absence of a 'higher power' doesn't mean humans aren't perfectly capable of creating, understanding, implementing, and abiding by tenets of good, and eschewing that which is evil.

Indeed, the lack of consensus on the part of theists as to what constitutes 'good' and 'evil,' or that which is perceived to be a 'moral absolute,' demonstrates that no one has a 'monopoly' on morality, and that individuals alone are best suited to decide such matters for themselves, safeguarded by social convention and statutory policies and measures.

 

[Dajjal]

How do we define good and evil if there is no higher power? Been thinking about this today.

What is good if there is nothing absolute? One would need to accept at least some form of natural law in the universe for their to be even and idea of good or evil. And if they don't exist, then how can we claim any action is good or evil?

I can only put this in personal terms from experience.
We all have a still small voice inside which tells us when we are doing wrong. When I was a youth I had air rifles and a shotgun and I remember thinking to myself. " If there is no God what does it matter if I shoot birds" So I shot them. Then I shot a sparrow which did not die, and I saw it looking at me in pain from under a bush, where it was hiding, and I knew then it did matter. Fifty years later, the only thing I regret in my life is that I did not listen to my conscience, and so I killed and injured harmless little birds. It was evil and wrong, and I knew it.

 

[G.T.]

Joseph smith = evil. Dc comic heroes = good. No higher power necessary.

 

[Bonzi]

It would be all relative.

Without a higher power .... everything is self-defined.

Realistically, evil is simply the absence of good..... just as dark is the absence of light.....

Bonzi,
however in physical light comes less gland activity thus less intuitive less knowledge and clearity of thought (spiritual darkness), while physical darkness brings more intuitive though knowledge and clear thought (spiritual light). Not everything is what it seems, discerning requires ability to recognize the subtle nuances and be able to rationalise what is truly good and evil not based on affiliation pride, human ego, or what seems good and what sems evil, which brings us back to my reply as to how we recognize right and wrong without twists, confusions, subjective opinions. Remember people twist death for life, Lucifer for Moshiach, so trusting their ability to comprehend absence of good still requires them non subjective comprehension of what is good. Otherwise affiliation pride can blind and twist even the simplest and obvious acts(actions).

It is difficult for me to think "outside" a higher being (in my case, the Holy Trinity) because, without God, there is no possibility for any "good" -

Perhaps if there were never any God or creator, people would not even think of terms of good or bad..... it may be a life we simply can not even fathom.....

 

[G.T.]

It would be all relative.

Without a higher power .... everything is self-defined.

Realistically, evil is simply the absence of good..... just as dark is the absence of light.....

Bonzi,
however in physical light comes less gland activity thus less intuitive less knowledge and clearity of thought (spiritual darkness), while physical darkness brings more intuitive though knowledge and clear thought (spiritual light). Not everything is what it seems, discerning requires ability to recognize the subtle nuances and be able to rationalise what is truly good and evil not based on affiliation pride, human ego, or what seems good and what sems evil, which brings us back to my reply as to how we recognize right and wrong without twists, confusions, subjective opinions. Remember people twist death for life, Lucifer for Moshiach, so trusting their ability to comprehend absence of good still requires them non subjective comprehension of what is good. Otherwise affiliation pride can blind and twist even the simplest and obvious acts(actions).

It is difficult for me to think "outside" a higher being (in my case, the Holy Trinity) because, without God, there is no possibility for any "good" -

Perhaps if there were never any God or creator, people would not even think of terms of good or bad..... it may be a life we simply can not even fathom.....

I can walk you through how there is good without a god needing to exist, bonzi. Or you can youtube sam harris speaking on morals ... i kind if share his take except im not an atheist, im an "i dont knowist."

 

[Bonzi]

It would be all relative.

Without a higher power .... everything is self-defined.

Realistically, evil is simply the absence of good..... just as dark is the absence of light.....

Bonzi,
however in physical light comes less gland activity thus less intuitive less knowledge and clearity of thought (spiritual darkness), while physical darkness brings more intuitive though knowledge and clear thought (spiritual light). Not everything is what it seems, discerning requires ability to recognize the subtle nuances and be able to rationalise what is truly good and evil not based on affiliation pride, human ego, or what seems good and what sems evil, which brings us back to my reply as to how we recognize right and wrong without twists, confusions, subjective opinions. Remember people twist death for life, Lucifer for Moshiach, so trusting their ability to comprehend absence of good still requires them non subjective comprehension of what is good. Otherwise affiliation pride can blind and twist even the simplest and obvious acts(actions).

It is difficult for me to think "outside" a higher being (in my case, the Holy Trinity) because, without God, there is no possibility for any "good" -

Perhaps if there were never any God or creator, people would not even think of terms of good or bad..... it may be a life we simply can not even fathom.....

I can walk you through how there is good without a god needing to exist, bonzi. Or you can youtube sam harris speaking on morals ... i kind if share his take except im not an atheist, im an "i dont knowist."

It's impossible. If you are a believer (like I am) that none of this universe etc. is possible without God, it's incomprehensible how it could or WOULD be otherwise.

You're still basing it on knowledge of what we know NOW which, very directly involved God.
You can NOT remove Him from the equation.....

Unless you are a steadfast Athiest and then, you already have your answer....

 

[G.T.]

It would be all relative.

Without a higher power .... everything is self-defined.

Realistically, evil is simply the absence of good..... just as dark is the absence of light.....

Bonzi,
however in physical light comes less gland activity thus less intuitive less knowledge and clearity of thought (spiritual darkness), while physical darkness brings more intuitive though knowledge and clear thought (spiritual light). Not everything is what it seems, discerning requires ability to recognize the subtle nuances and be able to rationalise what is truly good and evil not based on affiliation pride, human ego, or what seems good and what sems evil, which brings us back to my reply as to how we recognize right and wrong without twists, confusions, subjective opinions. Remember people twist death for life, Lucifer for Moshiach, so trusting their ability to comprehend absence of good still requires them non subjective comprehension of what is good. Otherwise affiliation pride can blind and twist even the simplest and obvious acts(actions).

It is difficult for me to think "outside" a higher being (in my case, the Holy Trinity) because, without God, there is no possibility for any "good" -

Perhaps if there were never any God or creator, people would not even think of terms of good or bad..... it may be a life we simply can not even fathom.....

I can walk you through how there is good without a god needing to exist, bonzi. Or you can youtube sam harris speaking on morals ... i kind if share his take except im not an atheist, im an "i dont knowist."

It's impossible. If you are a believer (like I am) that none of this universe etc. is possible without God, it's incomprehensible how it could or WOULD be otherwise.

You're still basing it on knowledge of what we know NOW which, very directly involved God.
You can NOT remove Him from the equation.....

Unless you are a steadfast Athiest and then, you already have your answer....

Im saying that i dont know if theres a god or not, and with that, my intellect can lead to imagining a circumstance where if god DOESNT exist, good and evil still do.

 

[HaShev]

It would be all relative.

Without a higher power .... everything is self-defined.

Realistically, evil is simply the absence of good..... just as dark is the absence of light.....

Bonzi,
however in physical light comes less gland activity thus less intuitive less knowledge and clearity of thought (spiritual darkness), while physical darkness brings more intuitive though knowledge and clear thought (spiritual light). Not everything is what it seems, discerning requires ability to recognize the subtle nuances and be able to rationalise what is truly good and evil not based on affiliation pride, human ego, or what seems good and what sems evil, which brings us back to my reply as to how we recognize right and wrong without twists, confusions, subjective opinions. Remember people twist death for life, Lucifer for Moshiach, so trusting their ability to comprehend absence of good still requires them non subjective comprehension of what is good. Otherwise affiliation pride can blind and twist even the simplest and obvious acts(actions).

It is difficult for me to think "outside" a higher being (in my case, the Holy Trinity) because, without God, there is no possibility for any "good" -

Perhaps if there were never any God or creator, people would not even think of terms of good or bad..... it may be a life we simply can not even fathom.....

I can walk you through how there is good without a god needing to exist, bonzi. Or you can youtube sam harris speaking on morals ... i kind if share his take except im not an atheist, im an "i dont knowist."

It's impossible. If you are a believer (like I am) that none of this universe etc. is possible without God, it's incomprehensible how it could or WOULD be otherwise.

You're still basing it on knowledge of what we know NOW which, very directly involved God.
You can NOT remove Him from the equation.....

Unless you are a steadfast Athiest and then, you already have your answer....

Bonzi, however if you can't properly discern and define God (power & source of life) then your concept of right & wrong is based on affiliation into an error or can be evil without knowing it's evil, just as Radicals don't think they are doing evil.
Without comprehension to your positioning (path) blindfolded in a gyro you can point up assuming it's the sky, however if you don't know you're facing down (positioned opposite) you would be pointing to the ground. Therefore you need a mediator that defines that Essence power of life so you can reflect and manifest that Essence.
Your faith accidentally combines your imposter mediator with your god, neither which leads you to the proper path or understanding because "you receive from the wrong message & false messengers."
Which is why humanity has failed and why we suffer fallen off our purpose and course, still not complete nor whole far from the kingdom of Shalem and thus outside the walls of the kingdom & into Gehinom (trash heap of life).
In Judaism you have those who bestow and those always taking instead of giving, we call this "receiving" nature.
We try to sway society into the bestowing nature over the receiving nature.
The serving of an Icon has not changed our lopsided nature. Moshiach is a servant to humanity not served by it. Thus called messenger(malakh) and mediator(meditron). "You are programed to receive the message", but it's up to you to discern which side does that message come from. Is it towards Shalem or lead you away or in opposition to Shalem?

I'll give you an example, I've been trying to get people to tell me their favorite song to show how messages can be sent.
Nobody participated, I have no idea why.
I'll put a Shalem (evening star-Night-slayer of the beast) message in your Mom's favorite song for you, If Jesus is who he says he is he'll put his morning star-day message in your father's favorite song, and the imposter mediator the Pope will place his Baal message in your favorite song.
Now tell us their favorite songs and once and for all discern who is the messenger and who is the fraud.

 

[September]

How do we define good and evil if there is no higher power? Been thinking about this today.

What is good if there is nothing absolute? One would need to accept at least some form of natural law in the universe for their to be even and idea of good or evil. And if they don't exist, then how can we claim any action is good or evil?

What's a higher power have to do with whether good and evil exist? By all accounts, God is the personification of evil and hypocrisy. Orders people to do his dirtywork throughout the Tanach, things which by modern standards would have you on trial at the Hague. Kill every inhabitant of a city if just 1 person in it worships any but God? That's not a 'good' deity.

Delta... many of these people never fully read the Old Testament, so they inaccurately associate YHWH's archetype with the Jesus archetype.

​

 

[September]

I understand morality a few different ways. There is that collective subjective morality which refers to a group's collective subjective perspective of "good" and "evil" or "right" and "wrong", which people often attempt to define as objective, especially when the group comprises of all humanity, or has to do with religion.

Then there is that individual subjective morality which refers to an individual's subjective perspective of "good" and "evil" or "right" and "wrong", whether or not they believe in such things, and regardless of to what extent that perspective has been influenced by collective group thought.

For me personally... terms like "good" and "evil" are often extremely reductive... those words tend to make everything white and black and tend to simplify your Weltanschauung, and imposes drastic limits upon how much one can potentially understand about human Nature.

​

 

[BreezeWood]

.
subjectivity, the underlying reason so few Spirits are ever freed ....

.

 

[HaShev]

.
subjectivity, the underlying reason so few Spirits are ever freed ....

.

So you are saying "they can never leave"
the hell they place themselves in, sort of like how prisons create a hellish atmosphere for themselves by their own choosing, usually through ego and affiliation pride.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
subjectivity, the underlying reason so few Spirits are ever freed ....

.

So you are saying "they can never leave"
the hell they place themselves in, sort of like how prisons create a hellish atmosphere for themselves by their own choosing, usually through ego and affiliation pride.

.

they simply fail to reach the summit - not necessarily a hellish experience, just a finite existence - death.

Columbus crossed the void and discovered land - nothing subjective about it.

.

 

[Avatar4321]

Who decides what is good or evil?

Which is part of my point. If there is no God or higher power how do we determine good from evil?

 

[Auld Phart]

Golden Rule

Him what got the gold, be making the rules

 

[Avatar4321]

How do we define good and evil if there is no higher power?

"If it harm no one, do what you will."

Not complicated, really. But it does require thought, not rote.

So you shoot Hitler to stop the holocaust. You clearly did harm to someone. But can you argue that this harm is good?

Let's try a less extreme example. Someone is attacking your family. You shoot them dead. You've clearly done harm, but are you honestly suggesting such an action is evil? By what determination?

 

[BreezeWood]

Who decides what is good or evil?

Which is part of my point. If there is no God or higher power how do we determine good from evil?

.
the same as was discovered by the Almighty - and so now discover the same or perish -

The Triumph of Good vs Evil, Admission to the Everlasting.

.

 

[Flopper]

How do we define good and evil if there is no higher power? Been thinking about this today.

What is good if there is nothing absolute? One would need to accept at least some form of natural law in the universe for their to be even and idea of good or evil. And if they don't exist, then how can we claim any action is good or evil?

This fails as an appeal to ignorance fallacy.

The absence of a 'higher power' doesn't mean humans aren't perfectly capable of creating, understanding, implementing, and abiding by tenets of good, and eschewing that which is evil.

Indeed, the lack of consensus on the part of theists as to what constitutes 'good' and 'evil,' or that which is perceived to be a 'moral absolute,' demonstrates that no one has a 'monopoly' on morality, and that individuals alone are best suited to decide such matters for themselves, safeguarded by social convention and statutory policies and measures.

There are a few examples of societies that had no religious beliefs but had very strict rules concerning good and evil. Certain pygmy tribes found in Africa were observed to have no identifiable cults or rites. There were no totems, no deities, and no spirits. Their dead were buried without special ceremonies or accompanying items and received no further attention. They even appeared to lack simple superstitions, according to travelers' reports. The tribes invoked serve penalties for murder, rape, or robbery of a tribe member. Those who cared for the sick or abandon children, or shared with other members of tribe that could not provide for themselves and their family were honored by the tribe.

 

[Avatar4321]

How do we define good and evil if there is no higher power? Been thinking about this today.

What is good if there is nothing absolute? One would need to accept at least some form of natural law in the universe for their to be even and idea of good or evil. And if they don't exist, then how can we claim any action is good or evil?

Good and evil are subjective. What may have been good centuries ago may well be evil today and vice versa. What is good in one culture maybe evil in another. Morality which is a distinction between right and wrong can exist independent of belief in a higher power.

So if one culture says rape is good, does that make it less evil? I don't see how that's possible or acceptable.