God Is Too Big to Fit Under Your Hat

[JakeStarkey]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

Faulty logic and faulty syllogism.

God is perfectly capable of making Himself comprehensible to human minds.

 

[AmericanFirst]

That is not a fact, that is your megalomaniacal opinion.

It is a fact.

You dont even know me

No, but I know what you are saying, and unless you don't believe what you are saying that tells me things about what you know and don't know.



That isn't so. I know very well that there are people on this planet whose understanding of God is much greater than mine. But I can also clearly see that you are not one of them.



The fact that you would call mysticism "bullshit" is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, never understood it.



Yes, it is, for the reason I already stated.

Just as one does not have to understand every nook and cranny of all navigable ocean waters in order to cross the Straights of Dover, one does not need to understand every aspect of God in order to understand Him well enough to meet our needs.

No, because our needs -- the ultimate goal of all religion -- is to become as God himself. In fact, that's clear from Jesus' own teachings, if you understand them properly.

The Holy Spirit leads us, but the HS communicates by language mostly

The fact that you believe this about the Spirit is proof positive that you have never experienced it, or if you have, you have failed to understand its message.

Like I said before, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!

 

[hortysir]

The Holy Spirit dwells within the bible.

So you're full of shit.

Actually, not the entire Bible, just the first 5 books of it known as the Torah.

Actually you are totally off your rocker. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down in the book of Acts, new testament, not old testament.

Ummm....

GOD sent the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, to land on Jesus' shoulder in order to identify Him as the One.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are referred to as the Word.
John 1:1 ~ In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were there during the creation of the universe.
Jesus was even at Jericho when the walls fell.

So Jesus is in both the OT and the NT

 

[AmericanFirst]

Actually, not the entire Bible, just the first 5 books of it known as the Torah.

Actually you are totally off your rocker. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down in the book of Acts, new testament, not old testament.

Ummm....

GOD sent the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, to land on Jesus' shoulder in order to identify Him as the One.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are referred to as the Word.
John 1:1 ~ In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were there during the creation of the universe.
Jesus was even at Jericho when the walls fell.

So Jesus is in both the OT and the NT

You are correc t, I stand corrected, thank you much friend.

 

[Dragon]

Faulty logic and faulty syllogism.

God is perfectly capable of making Himself comprehensible to human minds.

No more than He/She/It can make an object too big for Him/Her/It to lift. The human mind is as God has made it (by whatever means), and has the limitations that it has. Only by making the human mind different than it is can God make Himself comprehensible to it.

Which is, in fact, EXACTLY how it happens. And it doesn't happen through words.

 

[Dragon]

Like I said before, YOU ARE AN IDIOT!!!

Please see my signature. You are a perfect example of the truth it expresses.

 

[Dragon]

That you think it a fact that you know more on a subject than a person you do not even know, at all

But I do know you well enough to ascertain what you know about this subject, because we are discussing it and you are expressing your opinion, which is quite obviously uninformed. I don't know what you look like, how old you are, whether you are male or female (I'd guess male but only from your posting name), what you do for a living, what views you hold on other subjects, etc. but I do know what you think about mysticism, spiritual experience, and the arbitrary authority of doctrine and scripture because that's what we've been discussing. And it is perfectly obvious that you are lacking understanding and knowledge in this area.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Actually you are totally off your rocker. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit down in the book of Acts, new testament, not old testament.

Ummm....

GOD sent the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, to land on Jesus' shoulder in order to identify Him as the One.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit are referred to as the Word.
John 1:1 ~ In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God and the Word was God.

Jesus and the Holy Spirit were there during the creation of the universe.
Jesus was even at Jericho when the walls fell.

So Jesus is in both the OT and the NT

You are correc t, I stand corrected, thank you much friend.

Excellent example of class and humility the both of you.

:salute

 

[Toro]

"If God is all around you and in you as they say, I sure hope He likes enchiladas for dinner, because that's what He is getting." - Jack Handey.

 

[Dragon]

A bit more on the above (and thanks to Jake Starkey for prompting this thought). Transformation of the human mind is exactly what it's about. It's impossible for any human mind as it normally exists to comprehend the sacred, but the power of God can transform the mind so that understanding becomes increasingly possible.

This transformation comes about through spiritual experience. It's described in various terms depending on the religious tradition. Christians call it the Holy Spirit. Muslims call it "barakha" -- the blessing of God. Buddhists call it enlightenment. Hindus call it samadhi. Obtaining this experience and undergoing this transformation is the point of all religion. This is what Jesus meant by "the kingdom of God," and why he said that the kingdom of God is "within you."

Doctrinaire religion is a hindrance to this transformation.

 

[Iridescence]

Here's another way of saying the same thing. All religions are a mix of two sorts of thing: symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and comic-book stuff. To the extent that people focus on the comic-book stuff, such as (within Christianity) the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, the resurrection, or the idea of life after death and Heaven and Hell, it will seem a unique religion that disagrees with all others. But to the extent one focuses instead on the symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and ESPECIALLY to the degree one actually experiences universal spiritual truth, the religion will seem to agree with all others.

This is most likely going to be highly offensive to many people because, frankly, they need the illusions that these ideas bring over the truths they represent. It isn't that these 'comic book' things are falsified information, necessarily, but they give an aire to the content that seems to allow the reader, the believer to develop a profound illusion. Gospel... God's spell.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Here's another way of saying the same thing. All religions are a mix of two sorts of thing: symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and comic-book stuff. To the extent that people focus on the comic-book stuff, such as (within Christianity) the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, the resurrection, or the idea of life after death and Heaven and Hell, it will seem a unique religion that disagrees with all others. But to the extent one focuses instead on the symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and ESPECIALLY to the degree one actually experiences universal spiritual truth, the religion will seem to agree with all others.

This is most likely going to be highly offensive to many people because, frankly, they need the illusions that these ideas bring over the truths they represent. It isn't that these 'comic book' things are falsified information, necessarily, but they give an aire to the content that seems to allow the reader, the believer to develop a profound illusion. Gospel... God's spell.

Except that your assertion is erronous as it does not apply to all believers and it is not an illusion.

That you think there is no Creator is what is fantastical, not belief in the Creator.

 

[Dragon]

That you think there is no Creator is what is fantastical, not belief in the Creator.

That you think either she or I have said on this thread that there is no Creator is still more evidence that you are out of your depth, and don't understand at all.

 

[Iridescence]

Here's another way of saying the same thing. All religions are a mix of two sorts of thing: symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and comic-book stuff. To the extent that people focus on the comic-book stuff, such as (within Christianity) the miracles of Jesus, the virgin birth, the resurrection, or the idea of life after death and Heaven and Hell, it will seem a unique religion that disagrees with all others. But to the extent one focuses instead on the symbolic/metaphorical hints at universal spiritual truth, and ESPECIALLY to the degree one actually experiences universal spiritual truth, the religion will seem to agree with all others.

This is most likely going to be highly offensive to many people because, frankly, they need the illusions that these ideas bring over the truths they represent. It isn't that these 'comic book' things are falsified information, necessarily, but they give an aire to the content that seems to allow the reader, the believer to develop a profound illusion. Gospel... God's spell.

Except that your assertion is erronous as it does not apply to all believers and it is not an illusion.

That you think there is no Creator is what is fantastical, not belief in the Creator.

I apologize to have given you that impression, as it is a mistaken one. I know there is a creator, I could not possibly doubt that in the slightest form or fashion. I believe firmly, unwaiverungly, steadfast and faithful, continually and will forever more, but dear poster, unlike many seem to, I do not need an illusion of any kind. I hope you do not either. Though, I must add, bound by many loves, whatever illusions we acquire may very well be completely worthwhile and necessary within many levels of the human psyche. *hearts* as *heads*

 

[JimBowie1958]

That you think there is no Creator is what is fantastical, not belief in the Creator.

That you think either she or I have said on this thread that there is no Creator is still more evidence that you are out of your depth, and don't understand at all.

I wasnt talking to you, Doofus.

 

[JimBowie1958]

This is most likely going to be highly offensive to many people because, frankly, they need the illusions that these ideas bring over the truths they represent. It isn't that these 'comic book' things are falsified information, necessarily, but they give an aire to the content that seems to allow the reader, the believer to develop a profound illusion. Gospel... God's spell.

Except that your assertion is erronous as it does not apply to all believers and it is not an illusion.

That you think there is no Creator is what is fantastical, not belief in the Creator.

I apologize to have given you that impression, as it is a mistaken one. I know there is a creator, I could not possibly doubt that in the slightest form or fashion. I believe firmly, unwaiverungly, steadfast and faithful, continually and will forever more, but dear poster, unlike many seem to, I do not need an illusion of any kind. I hope you do not either. Though, I must add, bound by many loves, whatever illusions we acquire may very well be completely worthwhile and necessary within many levels of the human psyche. *hearts* as *heads*

So what of these supposed illusions do you refer to?

As to the value of illusions, though they may offer an artificial comfort, I do not find any genuine benefit from them as they are eventually dispelled.

 

[Iridescence]

No, not all are necessarily dispelled as some of the most effective and influential illusions tend to change the chemical makeup of an individual's brain. Granted, some through time may be dispersed and purged, but then, many are not so easily, hence, a potential explanation for heaven and hell for many even who believe.

 

[Dragon]

I wasnt talking to you.

That's never stopped me before, and it never will.

As to illusion, all of reality consists of illusion -- the illusion of division, that there is more than One -- and if we eliminate all of it the universe ceases to exist.

 

[ABikerSailor]

A bit more on the above (and thanks to Jake Starkey for prompting this thought). Transformation of the human mind is exactly what it's about. It's impossible for any human mind as it normally exists to comprehend the sacred, but the power of God can transform the mind so that understanding becomes increasingly possible.

This transformation comes about through spiritual experience. It's described in various terms depending on the religious tradition. Christians call it the Holy Spirit. Muslims call it "barakha" -- the blessing of God. Buddhists call it enlightenment. Hindus call it samadhi. Obtaining this experience and undergoing this transformation is the point of all religion. This is what Jesus meant by "the kingdom of God," and why he said that the kingdom of God is "within you."

Doctrinaire religion is a hindrance to this transformation.

You know...I like how you phrased it Dragon. Remind me to rep you again when I can.

But it's not just spiritual experience alone, it's that combined with your experiences in your life, and recognizing which are good choices for you and which ones aren't.

In order to learn about what your spiritual experience is trying to tell you, it also needs to mesh well with your actual life, otherwise one runs the risk of becoming a hypocrite (like many Christians that I've met), because you tell everyone what your spiritual experience is, and then also tell them that they have to think like you, and in doing so, generally you don't practice what you preach.

Newt Gingrich is a prime example. So is Rick Perry.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No, not all are necessarily dispelled as some of the most effective and influential illusions tend to change the chemical makeup of an individual's brain. Granted, some through time may be dispersed and purged, but then, many are not so easily, hence, a potential explanation for heaven and hell for many even who believe.

Do you assume that our universe is the only place brought into existance by the Creator?

In physics we know that there are many other dimensions other than the ones we can perceive, so why cant heaven and hell exist but are only imperceivable because of our limitations?

Hell is simply the place of the souls of the Dead, part of it is Gehenna and part of it is the Bossom of Abraham or Paradise. Heaven though is different; it is the Divine Presence of the Creator where we will all some day wind up, some sooner than others, methinks.