God Is Too Big to Fit Under Your Hat

[uscitizen]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

You mean to say that the politicorp that runs most of the world is God?

 

[JimBowie1958]

I wasnt talking to you.

That's never stopped me before, and it never will.

It has never stopped you from responding to others as though they were speaking to you?

Alright.

All of us play the doofus from time to time and knowing this helps us to remain calm when we screw up.

As to illusion, all of reality consists of illusion -- the illusion of division, that there is more than One -- and if we eliminate all of it the universe ceases to exist.

Reality is not illusion, lol. Reality is what we should try to grasp by forming cognative sets of symbols to help us model the universe around us.

It all started when man began to name the beasts he hunted and avoided.

 

[ABikerSailor]

No, not all are necessarily dispelled as some of the most effective and influential illusions tend to change the chemical makeup of an individual's brain. Granted, some through time may be dispersed and purged, but then, many are not so easily, hence, a potential explanation for heaven and hell for many even who believe.

Do you assume that our universe is the only place brought into existance by the Creator?

In physics we know that there are many other dimensions other than the ones we can perceive, so why cant heaven and hell exist but are only imperceivable because of our limitations?

Hell is simply the place of the souls of the Dead, part of it is Gehenna and part of it is the Bossom of Abraham or Paradise. Heaven though is different; it is the Divine Presence of the Creator where we will all some day wind up, some sooner than others, methinks.

If you were watching Nova on PBS this weekend, they had a show about the multi-verse and other dimensions. I highly recommend watching the 2 part Cosmos series about the universe.

Mathematically, it explains other dimensions quite well.

 

[ABikerSailor]

I wasnt talking to you.

That's never stopped me before, and it never will.

It has never stopped you from responding to others as though they were speaking to you?

Alright.

All of us play the doofus from time to time and knowing this helps us to remain calm when we screw up.

As to illusion, all of reality consists of illusion -- the illusion of division, that there is more than One -- and if we eliminate all of it the universe ceases to exist.

Reality is not illusion, lol. Reality is what we should try to grasp by forming cognative sets of symbols to help us model the universe around us.

It all started when man began to name the beasts he hunted and avoided.

Might wanna start watching a bit more Discovery channel then. There's been several Discovery shows about reality that physicists and others would differ with you about the concept of reality not being an illusion.

And.........they'd prove it with math.

 

[FactFinder]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

Except you are missing the base point. Scripture was inpired by God. It is defined as The Word of God. The Ten Commandments were written by The Finger of God. What exactly do you not get about that?

Let's see after now millinea the followers of God are still increasing. Could it be that the simpleton deniers do not have a viable alternative? Very easy in rebellion or just plain ole' self centered "I want to do whatever I want!" to just come up with some lame excuse to deny God but where is your viable alternative. You better work hard. In all these centuries not one has succeeded yet. Ever wonder why that is?

 

[ABikerSailor]

God is beyond the comprehension of human minds.

God is, therefore, also beyond description in human language.

God is, therefore, also beyond the ability of scripture to describe Him/Her/It or His/Her/Its will, since scripture is written in human language and suffers from the limitations of human language.

Therefore, all religions are false.

Except you are missing the base point. Scripture was inpired by God. It is defined as The Word of God. The Ten Commandments were written by The Finger of God. What exactly do you not get about that?

Let's see after now millinea the followers of God are still increasing. Could it be that the simpleton deniers do not have a viable alternative? Very easy in rebellion or just plain ole' self centered "I want to do whatever I want!" to just come up with some lame excuse to deny God but where is your viable alternative. You better work hard. In all these centuries not one has succeeded yet. Ever wonder why that is?

Actually, it's only the first 5 books of the Bible that are the Word of God, and that is generally known as the Torah.

The rest of the OT? Pretty much a history of the Hebrew people.

The NT? A bunch of cherry picked books to further the aims of the Roman Catholic Church. See to the Council of Nicea for that one.

 

[FactFinder]

A bunch of cherry picked books to further the aims of the Roman Catholic Church. See to the Council of Nicea for that one.

I read about that. Seems rather like someone objecting that the National Enquirer was not included as reliable source even though they have occasionally written truth.

 

[ABikerSailor]

A bunch of cherry picked books to further the aims of the Roman Catholic Church. See to the Council of Nicea for that one.

I read about that. Seems rather like someone objecting that the National Enquirer was not included as reliable source even though they have occasionally written truth.

Actually, it was more about power and money. Check out History Channel's "Banned from the Bible" pts 1 and 2.

Wanna talk about the book of Daniel and how almost all of it was taken out? The only thing that remained out of that book was the story of Daniel and the lions den, but that was only kept because it was one of the favorite books of the people, so they just reduced it down to 1 story.

 

[FactFinder]

Oh....History Channel! Well that is certainly the final word.

A couple thousand years or so of history and we find ourselves as somehow the "most enlightened" ones, heh? Heee hee we can't even figure out basic finances.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Ignore it if you wish, I've also checked other sources to make sure the information is correct.

Besides..........I think a scholar would know things better than you.

 

[FactFinder]

I have seen it some years ago. My relationship with God does not come from other people but from God.

Due to that relationship I do not accept denier's and rebel's arguments against God. I trust my personal experience.

God is good and exactly as Jesus proclaimed. So these petty arguments to cast disaparagement on others have no claim on me. They are a continued power struggle amongst mortals, far removed from spiritual reality.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Might wanna start watching a bit more Discovery channel then. There's been several Discovery shows about reality that physicists and others would differ with you about the concept of reality not being an illusion.

And.........they'd prove it with math.

Define 'reality'.

In my not-so humble opinion, reality is the thing we exist in that bites us in the ass when we screw up. You think snorting Draino is a good idea? Reality informs you otherwise.

Whether that reality has the solidity that was once presumed in the 19th century is irrelevant. Our notions of reality and the words we use to describe it change with each generation as we add to the knowledge that have been accumulated prior to our generation.

Whether the bullet a suicide is about to fire into their own skull is genuinely solid or 'real' in some navel-gazing way is simply irrelevant compared to the effect that 'illusion' of a bullet is going to do to the illusion of a brain the suiced has prior to the bullet turning it into mush.

That is reality.

 

[ABikerSailor]

And what makes you think you're not transported to another reality?

Buddhist monks talk about it.

 

[Dragon]

It has never stopped you from responding to others as though they were speaking to you?

I didn't respond to you as though you were speaking to me. I remind you that this is a public message board, not a private conversation, and anything you post here is fair game for anyone to respond to if they have something to say, regardless of whom you were addressing. If you want to engage in a private conversation with someone, I suggest doing so via private messages.

Reality is not illusion, lol. Reality is what we should try to grasp by forming cognative sets of symbols to help us model the universe around us.

It all started when man began to name the beasts he hunted and avoided.

Once again, you demonstrate that you have not had the experiences you would need to understand what's under discussion here. None of what you said, except for the first sentence, contradicts the idea of reality being illusion, and that first sentence does so arbitrarily, by fiat, without supporting evidence or argument -- or even evidence of comprehension.

Unfortunately, I can't help you to gain the understanding that you lack. Although I am very good with words, the realities of the sacred are beyond the power of human language to directly express, and that's as true for me as for any other. I can hint, I can use metaphor, I can stretch the power of language with poetry, but in the end all of this falls short.

Whoever has an ear, let him hear.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Might wanna start watching a bit more Discovery channel then. There's been several Discovery shows about reality that physicists and others would differ with you about the concept of reality not being an illusion.

And.........they'd prove it with math.

Define 'reality'.

In my not-so humble opinion, reality is the thing we exist in that bites us in the ass when we screw up. You think snorting Draino is a good idea? Reality informs you otherwise.

Whether that reality has the solidity that was once presumed in the 19th century is irrelevant. Our notions of reality and the words we use to describe it change with each generation as we add to the knowledge that have been accumulated prior to our generation.

Whether the bullet a suicide is about to fire into their own skull is genuinely solid or 'real' in some navel-gazing way is simply irrelevant compared to the effect that 'illusion' of a bullet is going to do to the illusion of a brain the suiced has prior to the bullet turning it into mush.

That is reality.

Whether reality has the solidity that was once presumes is anything BUT irrelevant. Back in the Middle Ages, people thought that it was "bad air" and demons that caused sickness, but today we know that to be false.

Like I said, you might want to adjust your perception.

 

[JimBowie1958]

And what makes you think you're not transported to another reality?

Buddhist monks talk about it.

Because it all still works the same way.

Why should I believe I am transported to another reality?

 

[JimBowie1958]

It has never stopped you from responding to others as though they were speaking to you?

I didn't respond to you as though you were speaking to me.

Yes you did. I was not talking to you and the attribution makes that quite obvious.

So you did respond to me as though I were talking to you and now you just cant understand that?

lol, and I dont know what the hell *I* am talking about?

I remind you that this is a public message board, not a private conversation, and anything you post here is fair game for anyone to respond to if they have something to say, regardless of whom you were addressing. If you want to engage in a private conversation with someone, I suggest doing so via private messages.

My attribution was to someone else, and that does not require I engage in a private message numb-nuts.

I suggest you get real, opoops, no, sorry, you dont know what real is, apparently.

Reality is not illusion, lol. Reality is what we should try to grasp by forming cognative sets of symbols to help us model the universe around us.

It all started when man began to name the beasts he hunted and avoided.

Once again, you demonstrate that you have not had the experiences you would need to understand what's under discussion here.

I demonstrate that I understand something as simple as attribution that you choose to ignore because it is convenient for you so you can deny the obvious to yourself.

I dont think you know jack-shit. Your just full of yourself.

None of what you said, except for the first sentence, contradicts the idea of reality being illusion, and that first sentence does so arbitrarily, by fiat, without supporting evidence or argument -- or even evidence of comprehension.

Sure it does.

Unfortunately, I can't help you to gain the understanding that you lack.

Becasue you're making this shit up as you go.

Although I am very good with words, ...

Dodging the obvious is more like it.

...the realities of the sacred are beyond the power of human language to directly express, and that's as true for me as for any other.

If you cant express it in some form you cant truly understand it.

I can hint, I can use metaphor, I can stretch the power of language with poetry, but in the end all of this falls short.

YOU fall short for many apparent resons.

Whoever has an ear, let him hear.

In this case you have a mouth and use it like a bilge pump.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Whether reality has the solidity that was once presumes is anything BUT irrelevant.

No, it is irrelevant. It denotes a flawed model, but ALL models are flawed, some more than others.

Back in the Middle Ages, people thought that it was "bad air" and demons that caused sickness, but today we know that to be false.

'Bad air' : air that contains particles that make people sick, such as allergens, bacteria or pollutants.

And how do you know that demons dont cause some disease from time to time?

Like I said, you might want to adjust your perception.

No, I dont think I do. Reality suits me just fine.

 

[Dragon]

Yes you did. I was not talking to you and the attribution makes that quite obvious.

You missed the point. This is a public message board. There is no such thing here as a private conversation. It makes no difference who you were addressing. If you put it out in public, anyone can respond to it.

Or, put another way, you lack the authority to shut anyone up, so you may as well give up on that one.

Going through the rest of your post, I'm going to continue my usual practice of snipping empty rhetoric and pointless, gratuitous insults as unworthy of a response. Most of your post consisted of that, and so most of it will be snipped; however I think there was a real point or two raised. EDIT: Well, one real point, not two.

If you cant express it in some form you cant truly understand it.

Untrue. There are many things that are understandable but not communicable. The classic example is explaining color to a blind person. Words only work for communication if there is shared experience that allows the tags to be referenced in another person's mind.

To continue the color analogy, I can say the word "green" and you will understand what that word means because you possess normal color vision; the word "green" will trigger memories of green objects you have seen in the past, or associations with green objects you can see now. But if you were blind from birth and had never seen color, you would have no way of relating the word "green" to any experience, and it would have only the vaguest meaning for you, if any.

The communication of spiritual experience is similar to that. Terminologies have grown up among mystics that, like all language, consists of tags applied to common experience, but for those who have not had those experiences the words will be meaningless at best, and misleading at worst. The latter happens because often the words are borrowed from other contexts where they have other meanings.

What's a little bizarre here is that you are arguing like a materialistic atheist but you seem to be a religious believer. Your religious beliefs would then be non-mystical in nature, objective claims about the reality observable through the normal senses operating in normal states of consciousness, and yet in that context there is absolutely no evidence in support of what you believe. It's interesting you can't see any logical contradiction in that.

Where religion is not mystical, it is make-believe.

 

[dblack]

What's a little bizarre here is that you are arguing like a materialistic atheist but you seem to be a religious believer. Your religious beliefs would then be non-mystical in nature, objective claims about the reality observable through the normal senses operating in normal states of consciousness, and yet in that context there is absolutely no evidence in support of what you believe. It's interesting you can't see any logical contradiction in that.

Where religion is not mystical, it is make-believe.

I've sort of picked up on that a number of times. I think some religions - particularly western-style monotheistic christianity, contain the seeds of materialism at their core.