God is not obvious

[sealybobo]

I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes

Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.

Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.

I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.

If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.

1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.

I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes

Serious questions: What started it all? From what came something? There had to be something that started everything. Did it just happen? So, if GOD is not real, the creator, then who? If you believe that some magical event took place that set the wheels into motion, what was that magical event, and where did the first particle come from? From a void came everything. Who or what is responsible for creating the void, then filling it? Yes, life may very well exist elsewhere in the universe, and no doubt that it does. But, again, where did it come from, and what is the origin?

Those are questions that science has never been able to answer. Thus the continuing debate as to whether GOD really does exist, or that there has to be some other explanation for the beginning of everything. So far, neither side has produced undeniable rock solid concrete evidence to back either claim. Everyone has their own belief and/or theory as to how it all began. As of now, science only goes as far as the big bang theory, or some miraculous chemical reaction that took place and started everything. But, science doesn't say where the chemicals came from, or what created the elements that caused something to explode ( the big bang theory ).

We don't know. Better to admit that than say it must have been a god. And this debate is harmless. Its when theists claim god talked to them that I get annoyed.

The universe or cosmos always was and will always be. There may also be universes beyond our universe. In fact there are probably infinite universes. They have existed forever. When one dies after billions of years the debree collects together either pulled by gravity or black holes and one day another big bang and universe will form.

Why is a god necessary? The idea that everything is just because is just as good as saying must have been created and then decide this god cares about us.

There may be a creator but if you're being honest it is not obvious. That makes you gullible.

To me its obvious we made him up.

Look at all the different gods we have. It is a cultural phenomenon

I think each person is a mix of good and not so good traits. I also think we can use whatever given talents we have to make the world a better place.

However, I don't agree with your idea of being gullible. Being gullible is believing in the vast knowledge of some empty cosmos, or thinking the power of people will save the world.

So do apes and dogs. So what?

We should make the world a better place rather than wait for heaven because you think whatever happens here is a gods will.

This world will expire someday. Question is will we be extinct before that happens? The trilobite's ruled millions of years before the dinosaur and the dinosaurs ruled for millions of years before humans evolved. If a horse could imagine a god it would probably be a horse creature. Or maybe to them we are gods. I know to a polar bear or shark you're just lunch.

 

[hobelim]

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

This is the problem. Children are taught to believe in things that make no sense under threats of real and imaginary violence and are also taught to believe that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to dissuade people from believing in the garbage that is being crammed down their throats . What happens then is that any rational doubt or rational question that is bound to arise in their own minds as they grow older is perceived as a demonic attack from the devil himself who to them is as real as their own thoughts to which they are compelled by their beliefs to devote themselves to disassociate from. This sets the mind against itself and effectively renders them incapable of rational thinking and incapable of accurate perception, zombies if you will, easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Don't be fooled. The devil is real. He is the one who fucks up their heads.... for a nominal service charge.

 

[sealybobo]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

I see. So, you don't know, yet you object to or criticize what others believe? What I'm hearing from you is just your opinion, which is no different from others expressing their opinion. Am I right? If not, please explain where I'm wrong here. Thanks.

 

[sealybobo]

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

This is the problem. Children are taught to believe in things that make no sense under threats of real and imaginary violence and are also taught to believe that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to dissuade people from believing in the garbage that is being crammed down their throats . What happens then is that any rational doubt or rational question that is bound to arise in their own minds as they grow older is perceived as a demonic attack from the devil himself who to them is as real as their own thoughts. This sets the mind against itself and effectively renders them incapable of rational thinking and incapable of accurate perception, zombies if you will, easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Don't be fooled. The devil is real. He is the one who fucks up their heads.... for a nominal service charge.

Same ancestors who said spare the rod spoil the child

I don't think I would have ever realized they made god up if they would have said being good was what matters but instead they fucked up and made up stories and said we have to believe the improbable to get into heaven.

I wonder how many more atheists there will be in 100 years. Look how much our numbers have grown since the internet put all the facts right in front of our faces. If someone goes and gets sucked into religions after doing their research I guess the concept of god is truly a very powerful thing.

One day 49% of americans won't believe in Jesus. I wonder what percent of atheists will be in the Muslim middle east? Probably no one because it will continue to be the law of the land. I know many atheists live in Iran but they don't dare say it.

And there are plenty of people who call themselves christians but they admit the bible is just stories to teach right and wrong. They were born into it and don't see the harm. They feel like they will go to heaven or don't want to question too much for fear of punishment. Just like the ancient Greeks didn't want to offend Apollo or Zeus.

 

[sealybobo]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

I see. So, you don't know, yet you object to or criticize what others believe? What I'm hearing from you is just your opinion, which is no different from others expressing their opinion. Am I right? If not, please explain where I'm wrong here. Thanks.

The burd end of proof is on you. If you have no proof then don't try to use your imaginary friend to ban abortion or gay rights.

And the bible isn't proof. It was written 400 years after Jesus. Google oldest bible and tell me what the oldest copy dates back to.

Or should we consult the Koran or book of mormons too?

 

[Sonny Clark]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

I see. So, you don't know, yet you object to or criticize what others believe? What I'm hearing from you is just your opinion, which is no different from others expressing their opinion. Am I right? If not, please explain where I'm wrong here. Thanks.

The burd end of proof is on you. If you have no proof then don't try to use your imaginary friend to ban abortion or gay rights.

And the bible isn't proof. It was written 400 years after Jesus. Google oldest bible and tell me what the oldest copy dates back to.

Or should we consult the Koran or book of mormons too?

I don't have to prove anything. No one can prove either side of the argument, and never will be able to prove their side. This debate has been going on for hundreds of years, even thousands of years. No one has ever been able to prove either way. It's all opinion and faith, nothing more. Some believe in GOD the creator, and some believe otherwise.

 

[DriftingSand]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

Well ... "intelligence" isn't obvious in THIS post but surprised I'm not.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

We make our own heaven and hell, right here on earth. There is no devil and there are no gods.

Believing in magical super-beings is, IMO, a relatively harmless aberration. They have their churches, their rituals and their talismans. They just need to keep it to themselves instead of trying to force others to agree with them.

 

[TooTall]

I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.

If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.

1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.

By the way, I don't have a problem with people believing in god. I think they are wrong and that religion isn't good for people other than making them feel better about themselves but I get why people believe.

And it shouldn't matter to you if I believe because that's just what your ancients believe or tell you.is true. That's how they get you to join. The ancient Greeks thought Zeus was punishing them when bad things happen. To them it was obvious too.

But if theists say god talked to their ancestors and if I don't believe that I'm going to hell, that god I know 100% doesn't exist. That's what's obvious.

What is obvious is that you are not a Christian and those that are Christians believe that you are going to hell. That is not to say they won't pray that you see the light and accept Christ, because they will do that.

You should have ended with "that doesn't mean they are right"

Mormons believe your church is corrupt because god told their profit so. While you pray for me they pray for u

I could have ended with they will do no harm since I know they are right. If you are living like there is no God then you better be right.

 

[TooTall]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

We make our own heaven and hell, right here on earth. There is no devil and there are no gods.

Believing in magical super-beings is, IMO, a relatively harmless aberration. They have their churches, their rituals and their talismans. They just need to keep it to themselves instead of trying to force others to agree with them.

Where will you be seated in eternity.........smoking or non-smoking?

 

[TooTall]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

I see. So, you don't know, yet you object to or criticize what others believe? What I'm hearing from you is just your opinion, which is no different from others expressing their opinion. Am I right? If not, please explain where I'm wrong here. Thanks.

The burd end of proof is on you. If you have no proof then don't try to use your imaginary friend to ban abortion or gay rights.

And the bible isn't proof. It was written 400 years after Jesus. Google oldest bible and tell me what the oldest copy dates back to.

Or should we consult the Koran or book of mormons too?

I don't have to prove anything. No one can prove either side of the argument, and never will be able to prove their side. This debate has been going on for hundreds of years, even thousands of years. No one has ever been able to prove either way. It's all opinion and faith, nothing more. Some believe in GOD the creator, and some believe otherwise.

Eternity is a long time to think about what you should have done.

 

[TooTall]

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

This is the problem. Children are taught to believe in things that make no sense under threats of real and imaginary violence and are also taught to believe that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to dissuade people from believing in the garbage that is being crammed down their throats . What happens then is that any rational doubt or rational question that is bound to arise in their own minds as they grow older is perceived as a demonic attack from the devil himself who to them is as real as their own thoughts. This sets the mind against itself and effectively renders them incapable of rational thinking and incapable of accurate perception, zombies if you will, easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Don't be fooled. The devil is real. He is the one who fucks up their heads.... for a nominal service charge.

Same ancestors who said spare the rod spoil the child

I don't think I would have ever realized they made god up if they would have said being good was what matters but instead they fucked up and made up stories and said we have to believe the improbable to get into heaven.

I wonder how many more atheists there will be in 100 years. Look how much our numbers have grown since the internet put all the facts right in front of our faces. If someone goes and gets sucked into religions after doing their research I guess the concept of god is truly a very powerful thing.

One day 49% of americans won't believe in Jesus. I wonder what percent of atheists will be in the Muslim middle east? Probably no one because it will continue to be the law of the land. I know many atheists live in Iran but they don't dare say it.

And there are plenty of people who call themselves christians but they admit the bible is just stories to teach right and wrong. They were born into it and don't see the harm. They feel like they will go to heaven or don't want to question too much for fear of punishment. Just like the ancient Greeks didn't want to offend Apollo or Zeus.

What will happen to the food banks and clothing and shelter that the poor all over the world now get from Catholic and many other Christian based charities that give aid and comfort to millions all over the world? Do you have a great big color picture of the Atheists taking their place?

 

[sealybobo]

If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.

1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.

By the way, I don't have a problem with people believing in god. I think they are wrong and that religion isn't good for people other than making them feel better about themselves but I get why people believe.

And it shouldn't matter to you if I believe because that's just what your ancients believe or tell you.is true. That's how they get you to join. The ancient Greeks thought Zeus was punishing them when bad things happen. To them it was obvious too.

But if theists say god talked to their ancestors and if I don't believe that I'm going to hell, that god I know 100% doesn't exist. That's what's obvious.

What is obvious is that you are not a Christian and those that are Christians believe that you are going to hell. That is not to say they won't pray that you see the light and accept Christ, because they will do that.

You should have ended with "that doesn't mean they are right"

Mormons believe your church is corrupt because god told their profit so. While you pray for me they pray for u

I could have ended with they will do no harm since I know they are right. If you are living like there is no God then you better be right.

I am a good person so if there really is a god that's what he cares about.

I am 100% sure the Jesus Mohammad and Jewish god doesn't exist.

 

[sealybobo]

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

I see. So, you don't know, yet you object to or criticize what others believe? What I'm hearing from you is just your opinion, which is no different from others expressing their opinion. Am I right? If not, please explain where I'm wrong here. Thanks.

The burd end of proof is on you. If you have no proof then don't try to use your imaginary friend to ban abortion or gay rights.

And the bible isn't proof. It was written 400 years after Jesus. Google oldest bible and tell me what the oldest copy dates back to.

Or should we consult the Koran or book of mormons too?

I don't have to prove anything. No one can prove either side of the argument, and never will be able to prove their side. This debate has been going on for hundreds of years, even thousands of years. No one has ever been able to prove either way. It's all opinion and faith, nothing more. Some believe in GOD the creator, and some believe otherwise.

Eternity is a long time to think about what you should have done.

Your god is worse than Kim Jung un. At least you can escape north Korea when you die. Your dictator will torture me for eternity?

Do you hear how dumb you sound?

 

[sealybobo]

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

This is the problem. Children are taught to believe in things that make no sense under threats of real and imaginary violence and are also taught to believe that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to dissuade people from believing in the garbage that is being crammed down their throats . What happens then is that any rational doubt or rational question that is bound to arise in their own minds as they grow older is perceived as a demonic attack from the devil himself who to them is as real as their own thoughts. This sets the mind against itself and effectively renders them incapable of rational thinking and incapable of accurate perception, zombies if you will, easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Don't be fooled. The devil is real. He is the one who fucks up their heads.... for a nominal service charge.

Same ancestors who said spare the rod spoil the child

I don't think I would have ever realized they made god up if they would have said being good was what matters but instead they fucked up and made up stories and said we have to believe the improbable to get into heaven.

I wonder how many more atheists there will be in 100 years. Look how much our numbers have grown since the internet put all the facts right in front of our faces. If someone goes and gets sucked into religions after doing their research I guess the concept of god is truly a very powerful thing.

One day 49% of americans won't believe in Jesus. I wonder what percent of atheists will be in the Muslim middle east? Probably no one because it will continue to be the law of the land. I know many atheists live in Iran but they don't dare say it.

And there are plenty of people who call themselves christians but they admit the bible is just stories to teach right and wrong. They were born into it and don't see the harm. They feel like they will go to heaven or don't want to question too much for fear of punishment. Just like the ancient Greeks didn't want to offend Apollo or Zeus.

What will happen to the food banks and clothing and shelter that the poor all over the world now get from Catholic and many other Christian based charities that give aid and comfort to millions all over the world? Do you have a great big color picture of the Atheists taking their place?

There shouldn't be poverty. This is the problem with our planet. The governments should make sure there is no poverty.

And meanwhile every country is full of religious people and still people are starving.

There is no excuse for hunger in america yet it exists. We can do better

 

[sealybobo]

Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.

To some of your questions we just don't know. But you guys say god must have done everything we don't know. Your god keeps getting smaller. He use to cause thunder when he was mad. Now we know that isn't true. Science figured it out. Not a god. God of the gaps look it up.

The universes are eternal. They always have been. Why? Just because. What created god? What created the universe? The universe just simply has always been and always will be. Why not?

How can you think there is or ever was a beginning or will ever be an end? Every star and planet will die someday but the debree will either collect and start again

OR I believe new universes are just on the other side of black holes.

Imagine an intimate number of universes. You can't so instead you imagine god. You think too small. Giordano Bruno was right. Even though he believed in god he was right about humans.

I see. So, you don't know, yet you object to or criticize what others believe? What I'm hearing from you is just your opinion, which is no different from others expressing their opinion. Am I right? If not, please explain where I'm wrong here. Thanks.

The burd end of proof is on you. If you have no proof then don't try to use your imaginary friend to ban abortion or gay rights.

And the bible isn't proof. It was written 400 years after Jesus. Google oldest bible and tell me what the oldest copy dates back to.

Or should we consult the Koran or book of mormons too?

I don't have to prove anything. No one can prove either side of the argument, and never will be able to prove their side. This debate has been going on for hundreds of years, even thousands of years. No one has ever been able to prove either way. It's all opinion and faith, nothing more. Some believe in GOD the creator, and some believe otherwise.

Eternity is a long time to think about what you should have done.

Don't worry. Remember what eternity was like before you were born? That's what it'll be like when you die.

 

[sealybobo]

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

This is the problem. Children are taught to believe in things that make no sense under threats of real and imaginary violence and are also taught to believe that the devil is an invisible disembodied entity that tries to dissuade people from believing in the garbage that is being crammed down their throats . What happens then is that any rational doubt or rational question that is bound to arise in their own minds as they grow older is perceived as a demonic attack from the devil himself who to them is as real as their own thoughts. This sets the mind against itself and effectively renders them incapable of rational thinking and incapable of accurate perception, zombies if you will, easy prey for the unscrupulous.

Don't be fooled. The devil is real. He is the one who fucks up their heads.... for a nominal service charge.

Same ancestors who said spare the rod spoil the child

I don't think I would have ever realized they made god up if they would have said being good was what matters but instead they fucked up and made up stories and said we have to believe the improbable to get into heaven.

I wonder how many more atheists there will be in 100 years. Look how much our numbers have grown since the internet put all the facts right in front of our faces. If someone goes and gets sucked into religions after doing their research I guess the concept of god is truly a very powerful thing.

One day 49% of americans won't believe in Jesus. I wonder what percent of atheists will be in the Muslim middle east? Probably no one because it will continue to be the law of the land. I know many atheists live in Iran but they don't dare say it.

And there are plenty of people who call themselves christians but they admit the bible is just stories to teach right and wrong. They were born into it and don't see the harm. They feel like they will go to heaven or don't want to question too much for fear of punishment. Just like the ancient Greeks didn't want to offend Apollo or Zeus.

What will happen to the food banks and clothing and shelter that the poor all over the world now get from Catholic and many other Christian based charities that give aid and comfort to millions all over the world? Do you have a great big color picture of the Atheists taking their place?

Everyone who gave money to their church will now have more money to pay taxes to eradicate poverty

 

[sealybobo]

People can still congregate and do good deeds without god. Do religious people only do good to impress god? Trying to buy their way into heaven?

In fact I wish atheists got together once a week.

 

[sealybobo]

Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.

And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.

We make our own heaven and hell, right here on earth. There is no devil and there are no gods.

Believing in magical super-beings is, IMO, a relatively harmless aberration. They have their churches, their rituals and their talismans. They just need to keep it to themselves instead of trying to force others to agree with them.

Where will you be seated in eternity.........smoking or non-smoking?

How did you get past the story where god or Jesus turned 5 loaves and 3 fish into enough food for 5000? I've been to communion and the preacher went through more food than that for 200 people and we only got one cube of bread?

How can you believe that?

You've already told us how. You were told if you didn't believe it you'd spend eternity in hell. I feel as sorry for you as I do Muslims. Brainwashed by a lie and so sure you know the truth. I can't believe people are so gullible.

Then there are the people who argue for a generic creator. They can't buy your stories either but still they can't believe all this just happened. Or that we most likely are just one of a billion planets that hold life.

I know none of this proves anything. Just don't say god is obvious. If he is why all the different stories from all the different cultures? So obvious. But not everyone is evolved enough to get it.