God is not obvious

sealybobo

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I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes
 

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
 

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I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes
Serious questions: What started it all? From what came something? There had to be something that started everything. Did it just happen? So, if GOD is not real, the creator, then who? If you believe that some magical event took place that set the wheels into motion, what was that magical event, and where did the first particle come from? From a void came everything. Who or what is responsible for creating the void, then filling it? Yes, life may very well exist elsewhere in the universe, and no doubt that it does. But, again, where did it come from, and what is the origin?

Those are questions that science has never been able to answer. Thus the continuing debate as to whether GOD really does exist, or that there has to be some other explanation for the beginning of everything. So far, neither side has produced undeniable rock solid concrete evidence to back either claim. Everyone has their own belief and/or theory as to how it all began. As of now, science only goes as far as the big bang theory, or some miraculous chemical reaction that took place and started everything. But, science doesn't say where the chemicals came from, or what created the elements that caused something to explode ( the big bang theory ).
 
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sealybobo

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
 
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sealybobo

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
What obvious reasons tell you a god created the universe? If you say nothing can be created by itself, what made god? And if god is eternal and causeless, why can't the universe be?

It isn't obvious. If it was it would be obvious to all of us. Not like we aren't looking too. What you are saying is you can't imagine there is no god. It would be hard for you to believe but it isn't obvious.

What's obvious is that man made up god to explain what we don't know.

It use to be obvious that the earth was still and the universe was revolving around our fixed position. It was also obvious the earth was flat.
 

Muslim75

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Let me first precise that I am Muslim.

God is not obvious. He is extremely obvious. So much is He obvious that His obviousness makes Him look unobvious.
 

DriftingSand

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
 
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sealybobo

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I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes
Serious questions: What started it all? From what came something? There had to be something that started everything. Did it just happen? So, if GOD is not real, the creator, then who? If you believe that some magical event took place that set the wheels into motion, what was that magical event, and where did the first particle come from? From a void came everything. Who or what is responsible for creating the void, then filling it? Yes, life may very well exist elsewhere in the universe, and no doubt that it does. But, again, where did it come from, and what is the origin?

Those are questions that science has never been able to answer. Thus the continuing debate as to whether GOD really does exist, or that there has to be some other explanation for the beginning of everything. So far, neither side has produced undeniable rock solid concrete evidence to back either claim. Everyone has their own belief and/or theory as to how it all began. As of now, science only goes as far as the big bang theory, or some miraculous chemical reaction that took place and started everything. But, science doesn't say where the chemicals came from, or what created the elements that caused something to explode ( the big bang theory ).
We don't know. Better to admit that than say it must have been a god. And this debate is harmless. Its when theists claim god talked to them that I get annoyed.

The universe or cosmos always was and will always be. There may also be universes beyond our universe. In fact there are probably infinite universes. They have existed forever. When one dies after billions of years the debree collects together either pulled by gravity or black holes and one day another big bang and universe will form.

Why is a god necessary? The idea that everything is just because is just as good as saying must have been created and then decide this god cares about us.

There may be a creator but if you're being honest it is not obvious. That makes you gullible.

To me its obvious we made him up.

Look at all the different gods we have. It is a cultural phenomenon
 
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sealybobo

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
 

DriftingSand

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
 
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sealybobo

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
That's a pseudo science. Not taken serious by the real scientific community.

Even the scientists that believe in god don't take creation scientists seriously.

And funny you like a science that breaks from the scientific method. What it does is assume god exists without having any proof. It doesn't work that way. And asks for proof he doesn't exist. I think they call that the null hypothesis.
 
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sealybobo

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
By the way, I don't have a problem with people believing in god. I think they are wrong and that religion isn't good for people other than making them feel better about themselves but I get why people believe.

And it shouldn't matter to you if I believe because that's just what your ancients believe or tell you.is true. That's how they get you to join. The ancient Greeks thought Zeus was punishing them when bad things happen. To them it was obvious too.

But if theists say god talked to their ancestors and if I don't believe that I'm going to hell, that god I know 100% doesn't exist. That's what's obvious.
 
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sealybobo

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
We've only been able to see beyond our solar system for a few hundred years. We've only begun to understand how big the universe is. The closest star is 70,000 years from us at top speed. There are billions of suns and planets in our solar system alone and there are infinite numbers of universes.

Billions of years ago before our solar system was formed there were planets elsewhere that harbored life and they are now gone. Billions of years after us new stars planets and lives will happen.

If you can grasp this it should make you realize that the god concept is just the best guess our primitive ancestors could come up with. Too bad they didn't have all the facts we have now. And we still know so little.

Next time you get sick go to church not a hospital. Or if someone kills you we won't use DNA evidence because don't trust the science. And we will believe the killer when they say the devil possessed them and they are not responsible. Or god told me the juror he didn't do it no matter what scientific evidence they produce.

If I told you I had a flying car and have witnesses will you send me a check before seeing proof?
 

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Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
By the way, I don't have a problem with people believing in god. I think they are wrong and that religion isn't good for people other than making them feel better about themselves but I get why people believe.

And it shouldn't matter to you if I believe because that's just what your ancients believe or tell you.is true. That's how they get you to join. The ancient Greeks thought Zeus was punishing them when bad things happen. To them it was obvious too.

But if theists say god talked to their ancestors and if I don't believe that I'm going to hell, that god I know 100% doesn't exist. That's what's obvious.
What is obvious is that you are not a Christian and those that are Christians believe that you are going to hell. That is not to say they won't pray that you see the light and accept Christ, because they will do that.
 

Luddly Neddite

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Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.
 

featherlite

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I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes
Although I'm a fan of science (knowledge) it has proven to be wrong time and time again. So just because science says that "we are not significant or special" doesn't mean a thing. In fact, there are thousands of scientists that DO believe we are significant and special. Home The Institute for Creation Research

What your thread ought to say is that God isn't obvious to YOU. However, God's presence is very obvious to me. The earth and all creation declare His glory. I don't have to see a tornado to know that it ripped through a Midwestern town. The path of destruction declares the existence of the tornado.
Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
I was dreaming about how someone said that god was obvious. That's the dumbest thing a theist can say. What they mean is they can't imagine all this was created without an intelligent designer. But science looks at the universe and to science it is obvious that we are not significant or special. In fact the universe is probably full of life and were just too far away to know.

Then we see birth defects and kids with cancer and mental retardation and we realize we weren't intelligently designed by a perfect creator who loves us. We just happen to be the top of the food chain on this tiny planet.

And if god were obvious and we didn't make him up we wouldn't have such unbelievable stories of when he visited and the threat of hell if we don't believe.

I have more to say but let's start here. Seriously I was sleeping and this dawned on me. God isn't obvious. There might be something that created everything but scientifically it isn't obvious. So if you can't even fathom he doesn't exist then you really aren't thinking rationally or with fair and balanced eyes
Serious questions: What started it all? From what came something? There had to be something that started everything. Did it just happen? So, if GOD is not real, the creator, then who? If you believe that some magical event took place that set the wheels into motion, what was that magical event, and where did the first particle come from? From a void came everything. Who or what is responsible for creating the void, then filling it? Yes, life may very well exist elsewhere in the universe, and no doubt that it does. But, again, where did it come from, and what is the origin?

Those are questions that science has never been able to answer. Thus the continuing debate as to whether GOD really does exist, or that there has to be some other explanation for the beginning of everything. So far, neither side has produced undeniable rock solid concrete evidence to back either claim. Everyone has their own belief and/or theory as to how it all began. As of now, science only goes as far as the big bang theory, or some miraculous chemical reaction that took place and started everything. But, science doesn't say where the chemicals came from, or what created the elements that caused something to explode ( the big bang theory ).
We don't know. Better to admit that than say it must have been a god. And this debate is harmless. Its when theists claim god talked to them that I get annoyed.

The universe or cosmos always was and will always be. There may also be universes beyond our universe. In fact there are probably infinite universes. They have existed forever. When one dies after billions of years the debree collects together either pulled by gravity or black holes and one day another big bang and universe will form.

Why is a god necessary? The idea that everything is just because is just as good as saying must have been created and then decide this god cares about us.

There may be a creator but if you're being honest it is not obvious. That makes you gullible.

To me its obvious we made him up.

Look at all the different gods we have. It is a cultural phenomenon
I think each person is a mix of good and not so good traits. I also think we can use whatever given talents we have to make the world a better place.

However, I don't agree with your idea of being gullible. Being gullible is believing in the vast knowledge of some empty cosmos, or thinking the power of people will save the world.
 

Sonny Clark

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Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.
Okay. If science and facts are obvious, where did it all begin? What started it all? What was the origin of everything? What happened that a void was filled from nothing? Where did the void come from? Has science proven beyond any doubt, that GOD doesn't exist? If so, how? Thanks in advance for your reply.
 
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sealybobo

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Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
By the way, I don't have a problem with people believing in god. I think they are wrong and that religion isn't good for people other than making them feel better about themselves but I get why people believe.

And it shouldn't matter to you if I believe because that's just what your ancients believe or tell you.is true. That's how they get you to join. The ancient Greeks thought Zeus was punishing them when bad things happen. To them it was obvious too.

But if theists say god talked to their ancestors and if I don't believe that I'm going to hell, that god I know 100% doesn't exist. That's what's obvious.
What is obvious is that you are not a Christian and those that are Christians believe that you are going to hell. That is not to say they won't pray that you see the light and accept Christ, because they will do that.
You should have ended with "that doesn't mean they are right"

Mormons believe your church is corrupt because god told their profit so. While you pray for me they pray for u
 
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sealybobo

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Tornados can be explained by science.

Even if a generic creator created the universe what is obvious is that we are probably not central or special in his plans. Unless of course you believe in one of our primitive religions.
I'm not talking about the tornado. I'm talking about the aftermath of a tornado and the results left by it. But since science doesn't have all the answers it can't say that God can't be explained. It can only say that it doesn't know how to at the moment. Science is not God.
If it can't be scientifically explained then it probably doesn't exist.

Science isn't god but we put all our trust in it when we get sick. We pray a scientist comes up with a cure for all diseases. If were going to leave this dying planet one day science is going to figure it out.

Science doesn't know everything but neither does any church. But churches claim to know all the answers. Better to admit you don't know and keep looking.

Scientific theory is the highest you can get. Could they be wrong? Sure. But the best we can go with is what the consensus is among our brightest scientists. If evidence suggests we made god up then organized religions popped up soon after and were just clinging to an ancient superstition I want to know.

Great philosophers and scientists say question authority and don't put all your faith in the sayings of the ancients. Were better than that.
1) Your use of the word "probably" is telling.
2) I DON'T put my trust in science when I get sick. There are far more deaths by medical malpractice than there are by gunshot.
3) Nobody has claimed that churches know everything. If it's a Bible-centric Church then it knows what's important.
4) I get regular newsletters from a science community that believes in God. The Institute for Creation Science. They're scientists and they're Christians. They keep seeking answers to all of those unanswered questions that the mainstream science community can't answer.
5) We should never throw the wisdom of the past away. Good philosophers will tell you that "hindsight is 20/20." Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I will venture to say that modern men are likely less wise than many thinkers of the past.
By the way, I don't have a problem with people believing in god. I think they are wrong and that religion isn't good for people other than making them feel better about themselves but I get why people believe.

And it shouldn't matter to you if I believe because that's just what your ancients believe or tell you.is true. That's how they get you to join. The ancient Greeks thought Zeus was punishing them when bad things happen. To them it was obvious too.

But if theists say god talked to their ancestors and if I don't believe that I'm going to hell, that god I know 100% doesn't exist. That's what's obvious.
What is obvious is that you are not a Christian and those that are Christians believe that you are going to hell. That is not to say they won't pray that you see the light and accept Christ, because they will do that.
What do scientologists or Buddhist think? Does it matter? Then neither does christianity
 
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sealybobo

sealybobo

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Its not just that god is not obvious. The opposite is true. Its science and intelligence that is obvious.

Science and facts are "obvious". God is a giant magic show with sleight of hand and misdirection. Like all magic, one must really work at letting go of logic and intelligence in order to believe in the rabbit pulled out of the hat.
And you and I know the devil isn't making us think this so we realize theists are not thinking rationally this is emotional for them. Its personal. So they aren't being intellectually honest with us or themselves. Brainwashed and close minded to the facts.
 

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