Global Warming. Here's the thing.

[myself]

Solar panels are NOT alternative energy. Their performance is not the same in Tucson and Albany. The sun is only there for 8 hours a day at anywhere near full energy..

We're NOT helping the world regardless of GW by over-investing in wind or solar.

Well Germany jumped into solar on a big way. And they're making it work. Even though they receive less sunlight. As for wind power, I say to hell with that. The wind doesn't always blow. But the sun always shines.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well Germany jumped into solar on a big way. And they're making it work.

Only if your definition of "making it work" is "pays the highest price in the world for electricity".

 

[flacaltenn]

I have some graphs for you and all the other human caused global warming deniers around here. There are MANY like them. But these should do.

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I think others have already told you that CO2 levels rise when it warms as well as the Greenhouse effect where CO2 can CAUSE warming. It's not a leading or lagging indicator.. They always march together in some fashion.

Go look at the CO2 cycle. That's the amount that mother nature both puts up to the atmos and SINKS to the oceans and land.

In that cycle, the CO2 emissions credited to MAN are only about 5% of nature.. And currently nature is sinking about a 1/3 to a 1/2 of what man puts up..

CO2 has no superpowers.. YES -- it's a Greenhouse gas. It's not even the most DOMINANT GH gas. Water vapor is.. If CO2 is a "pollutant" (and it's not because you expire 5 times the atmos concentration from your lungs) than so is water vapor..

 

[flacaltenn]

Well Germany jumped into solar on a big way. And they're making it work. Even though they receive less sunlight. As for wind power, I say to hell with that. The wind doesn't always blow. But the sun always shines.

Germany has decomissioned more solar than they are currently installing.. When it snows or rains - no power. For up to 18 hours A DAY -- there's no power.. It is a SUPPLEMENT -- NOT an ALTERNATIVE..

I have plenty of references on Germany's "solar" boondoogles.. Be glad to share them..

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Well Germany jumped into solar on a big way. And they're making it work. Even though they receive less sunlight. As for wind power, I say to hell with that. The wind doesn't always blow. But the sun always shines.

The wind doesn't always blow. But the sun always shines.

With the occasional break for November, December and January in Chicago.

 

[myself]

Only if your definition of "making it work" is "pays the highest price in the world for electricity".

Are you still going on about that? I don't think solar panels are that expensive. And seeing how the power you get from them is free, how expensive is free. And as I said before, they would probably be paying even more if they got their electricity from coal, oil or nuclear.

 

[flacaltenn]

myself In fact, about your CO2 correlated with warming graphs.... CO2 concentrations worldwide are actually SEASONABLE -- If you look at data from Mauna Loa in Hawaii that measures this and get the RAW data -- you'll see that Mother nature's cycle from season to season is about 4 to 6 times the yearly "mean" increase...

 

[myself]

I think others have already told you that CO2 levels rise when it warms as well as the Greenhouse effect where CO2 can CAUSE warming. It's not a leading or lagging indicator.. They always march together in some fashion.

Go look at the CO2 cycle. That's the amount that mother nature both puts up to the atmos and SINKS to the oceans and land.

In that cycle, the CO2 emissions credited to MAN are only about 5% of nature.. And currently nature is sinking about a 1/3 to a 1/2 of what man puts up..

CO2 has no superpowers.. YES -- it's a Greenhouse gas. It's not even the most DOMINANT GH gas. Water vapor is.. If CO2 is a "pollutant" (and it's not because you expire 5 times the atmos concentration from your lungs) than so is water vapor..

You deniers sure are a trip. What if there were no humans on the planet at all. What would the climate be like with all that CO2 "absorbing" going on.

 

[flacaltenn]

Are you still going on about that? I don't think solar panels are that expensive. And seeing how the power you get from them is free, how expensive is free. And as I said before, they would probably be paying even more if they got their electricity from coal, oil or nuclear.

What do use for the OTHER 14 or 18 hours of the day?? You're paying for TWO GENERATORS.. The panels and a RELIABLE generator like natural gas. Are you including the COST of having to have TWO REDUNDANT generators to keep civilization alive??

Solar panels are "peaker" units. Their use is to slightly be able to UNDERBUILD your "nat gas" or other plants. The panels cut the "daytime peak" by at MOST about 10 to 12%.. More than that -- they dont save the overall generation scheme ANYTHING..

 

[myself]

Germany has decomissioned more solar than they are currently installing.. When it snows or rains - no power. For up to 18 hours A DAY -- there's no power.. It is a SUPPLEMENT -- NOT an ALTERNATIVE..

I have plenty of references on Germany's "solar" boondoogles.. Be glad to share them..

Solar panels only last about 25 years. Of course you have to replace them. Or decommission them as you say. Next, let's say that every paved road and rooftop in Germany had solar panels over them. That would probably give them more than enough energy for both day and night. Most likely far more than they need. They only have a population of a little over 80 million. The U.S. has a population of over 320 million people. In this picture you can see the number of solar panels it would take to power the U.S. Both day and night.

 

[myself]

myself In fact, about your CO2 correlated with warming graphs.... CO2 concentrations worldwide are actually SEASONABLE -- If you look at data from Mauna Loa in Hawaii that measures this and get the RAW data -- you'll see that Mother nature's cycle from season to season is about 4 to 6 times the yearly "mean" increase...

Seasonable? Those graphs I showed go on for decades.

 

[myself]

The wind doesn't always blow. But the sun always shines.

With the occasional break for November, December and January in Chicago.

It isn't always cloudy. Especially for months on end. I also said somewhere that a power grid would still be needed. To transmit power from places where the sun is shining to places where it isn't.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Are you still going on about that? I don't think solar panels are that expensive. And seeing how the power you get from them is free, how expensive is free. And as I said before, they would probably be paying even more if they got their electricity from coal, oil or nuclear.

Are you still going on about that?

Yes, I'm still going on about the truth.

I don't think solar panels are that expensive.

They're so cheap, that after you start using them, you pay more for electricity.

And as I said before, they would probably be paying even more if they got their electricity from coal, oil or nuclear.

Why?

They paid less when they used more coal and nuclear.
How old were you when you failed your last econ class?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It isn't always cloudy. Especially for months on end.

It is a lot of the time in Chicago.

We have Sun about 54% of the time here.......between sunrise and sunset.

And, of course, 0% of the time after sunset.

Annual Days of Sunshine in Illinois - Current Results

Yearly averages for number of sunny days and total amount of sunshine at cities in Illinois.

www.currentresults.com

 

[myself]

What do use for the OTHER 14 or 18 hours of the day?? You're paying for TWO GENERATORS.. The panels and a RELIABLE generator like natural gas. Are you including the COST of having to have TWO REDUNDANT generators to keep civilization alive??

Solar panels are "peaker" units. Their use is to slightly be able to UNDERBUILD your "nat gas" or other plants. The panels cut the "daytime peak" by at MOST about 10 to 12%.. More than that -- they dont save the overall generation scheme ANYTHING..

There's nothing wrong with redundancy. But the thing is that you could have solar panels supplying energy both day and night. You just take the excess energy you receive during the day and store it for nighttime use. But I guess most of this depends on is if you believe that human caused global warming is real. If it is, solar is worth the effort. If it isn't, then coal and oil companies shed tears. Big deal.

 

[myself]

Are you still going on about that?

Yes, I'm still going on about the truth.

I don't think solar panels are that expensive.

They're so cheap, that after you start using them, you pay more for electricity.

And as I said before, they would probably be paying even more if they got their electricity from coal, oil or nuclear.

Why?

They paid less when they used more coal and nuclear.
How old were you when you failed your last econ class?

You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in your denier ass. As for what Germany paid and when, I don't know. But I do know that fossil fuels has the world on a fast track to destruction. Whatever we have to pay to keep that from happening is worth the price.

 

[elektra]

You know, we can't save the world. The only thing we can do is become isolationist and try to save ourselves. To that end, solar panels are the best way to go.

Solar panels can not power industry, no food or jobs of we listen to you.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

As for what Germany paid and when, I don't know.

I already showed you.

Whatever we have to pay to keep that from happening is worth the price.

I agree, we need a bunch of new nuclear plants.

 

[myself]

It is a lot of the time in Chicago.

We have Sun about 54% of the time here.......between sunrise and sunset.

And, of course, 0% of the time after sunset.

View attachment 543544

Annual Days of Sunshine in Illinois - Current Results

Yearly averages for number of sunny days and total amount of sunshine at cities in Illinois.

www.currentresults.com

Your goofiness is noted. You need enough solar panels to provide power during the day AND with enough left over to store for the nighttime.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You need enough solar panels to provide power during the day AND with enough left over to store for the nighttime.

And enough for when it's snowy, rainy and cloudy.