Global warming can’t be ignored, Montana’s top court says, upholding landmark climate case

The Montana Justices should be asked these questions under oath immediately...


1. Why does one Earth polar circle have 9+ times the ice of the other?
2. Why is there ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle on Greenland but no such ice age glacier north of Arctic Circle on Alaska?
3. If the oceans are "warming" why is the record decade for canes still the 1940s?
4. If the oceans are "rising" why can't we see one single photo of land sinking?
5. How did Co2 thaw North America and freeze Greenland at the same time?



and if they cannot answer them, the ruling should be reversed...


and evileyefleegle is both too stupid and too cowardly to even try....
Dude, you're an idiot. Your every post confirms this.
The justices did not rule on the veracity of climate change, they ruled on the right of Montana citizens to control their environment and limit those who would plunder it.
I understand that you did not read the ruling..or have any knowledge of the facts that drove this legal decision.

As to climate change, all your cherry-picked pseudo-science means nothing to me and is clearly unworthy of debate.
 
Dude, you're an idiot. Your every post confirms this.
The justices did not rule on the veracity of climate change, they ruled on the right of Montana citizens to control their environment and limit those who would plunder it.
I understand that you did not read the ruling..or have any knowledge of the facts that drove this legal decision.

As to climate change, all your cherry-picked pseudo-science means nothing to me and is clearly unworthy of debate.



Translation

EMH is correct, evileye is too stupid and too cowardly to answer basic climate questions...
 
This is about the Law ... not science ... do we want our courts to violate the Law? ...

Montana State Constitution, Article IX (spoiled for length):

ARTICLE IX
ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES
Section 1. PROTECTION AND IMPROVEMENT. (1) The state and each person
shall maintain and improve a clean and healthful environmentin Montana for present and future
generations.
(2) The legislature shall provide for the administration and enforcement of this duty.
(3) The legislature shall provide adquateremedies for the protection of the environmental
life support system from degradation and provide adequate remedies to prevent unreasonable
depletion and degradation of natural resources.
Section 2. RECLAMATION. All lands disturbed by the taking of natural resources
shall be reclaimed. The legislature shall provide effective requirements and standards for the
reclamation of lands disturbed.
Section 3 . WATER RIGHTS. (1) All existing rights to the use of any waters for any
useful or beneficial purpose are hereby recognized and confirmed.
(2) The use of all water that is now or may hereafter be appropriated for sale, rent,
distribution, or other beneficial use, the right of way over the lands of others for all ditches, drains,
flumes, canals, and aqueducts necessarily used in connection therewith, and the sites for
reservoirs necessary for collecting and storing water shall be held to be a public use.
(3) All surface, underground, flood, and atmospheric waters within the boundaries of the
state are the property of the state for the use of its people and are subject to appropriation for
beneficial uses as provided by law.
(4) The legislature shall provide for the administration, control, and regulation of water
rights and shall establish a system of centralized records, in addition to the present system of local
records.
Section 4. CULTURAL RESOURCES. The legislature shall provide for the
identification, acquisition, restoration, enhancement, preservation, and administration of scenic,
historic, archeologic, scientific, cultural, and recreational areas, sites, records and objects, and for
their use and enjoyment by the people.
 
This is about the Law ... not science ... do we want our courts to violate the Law? ...

Montana State Constitution, Article IX (spoiled for length):

ARTICLE IX
ENVIRONMENT AND NATURAL RESOURCES
Section 1. PROTECTION AND IMPROVEMENT. (1) The state and each person
shall maintain and improve a clean and healthful environmentin Montana for present and future
generations.
(2) The legislature shall provide for the administration and enforcement of this duty.
(3) The legislature shall provide adquateremedies for the protection of the environmental
life support system from degradation and provide adequate remedies to prevent unreasonable
depletion and degradation of natural resources.
Section 2. RECLAMATION. All lands disturbed by the taking of natural resources
shall be reclaimed. The legislature shall provide effective requirements and standards for the
reclamation of lands disturbed.
Section 3 . WATER RIGHTS. (1) All existing rights to the use of any waters for any
useful or beneficial purpose are hereby recognized and confirmed.
(2) The use of all water that is now or may hereafter be appropriated for sale, rent,
distribution, or other beneficial use, the right of way over the lands of others for all ditches, drains,
flumes, canals, and aqueducts necessarily used in connection therewith, and the sites for
reservoirs necessary for collecting and storing water shall be held to be a public use.
(3) All surface, underground, flood, and atmospheric waters within the boundaries of the
state are the property of the state for the use of its people and are subject to appropriation for
beneficial uses as provided by law.
(4) The legislature shall provide for the administration, control, and regulation of water
rights and shall establish a system of centralized records, in addition to the present system of local
records.
Section 4. CULTURAL RESOURCES. The legislature shall provide for the
identification, acquisition, restoration, enhancement, preservation, and administration of scenic,
historic, archeologic, scientific, cultural, and recreational areas, sites, records and objects, and for
their use and enjoyment by the people.



Every "law" that ascribes something to "CO2 emissions" needs to be repealed, and everyone who put those laws in there needs to be held accountable...
 
Every "law" that ascribes something to "CO2 emissions" needs to be repealed, and everyone who put those laws in there needs to be held accountable...

Like Nazis? ... try reading with comprehension next time ...

Do you even know where Montana is? ... just living there is being "held accountable" ... have you no mercy a'tall? ...
 


Billions of tonnes isn't even 1 ppm ... and it's sulfur dioxide ... much much worse for the atmosphere ... makes sulfuric acid rain ... the worst kind ...

But it will all wash out in the next couple of years ... just this one eruption won't effect climate ... however, the volcano has been continuously erupting for all of recorded history ... so it's this continuous supply of volcanic gases that sets climate averages ...

 
Same as cows farting.

Cows belching they're ruminants goddamit ... have there been the same amount of cows these past 100 years ... I don't think so ...

Of course we're just assuming volcanic gases have been being released in equal amounts in equal 100-year time periods ... such that Krakatoa disrupted weather for a couple of years, but Krakatoa alone had little to do with the 100-years average ...
 
Montana leading the climate change fight??
Not what most would expect, unless they know Montana--a state that always goes its own way--and pays little attention to the national culture wars rhetoric:


Montana’s Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a landmark climate ruling that said the state was violating residents’ constitutional right to a clean environment by permitting oil, gas and coal projects without regard for global warming.
The justices, in a 6-1 ruling, rejected the state’s argument that greenhouse gases released from Montana fossil fuel projects are minuscule on a global scale and reducing them would have no effect on climate change, likening it to asking: “If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?”

The plaintiffs can enforce their environmental rights “without requiring everyone else to stop jumping off bridges or adding fuel to the fire,” Chief Justice Mike McGrath wrote for the majority. “Otherwise the right to a clean and healthful environment is meaningless.”

Only a few other states, including Hawaii, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and New York, have similar environmental protections enshrined in their constitutions.


The lawsuit filed in 2020 by 16 Montanans —who are now ages 7 to 23 — was considered a breakthrough in attempts by young environmentalists and their attorneys to use the courts to leverage action on climate change.


The Montana Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a district court ruling in the nation’s first constitutional climate change trial , affirming that the youth plaintiffs have a “fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment” while revoking two Montana statutes.

The 70-page decision, authored by Chief Justice Mike McGrath, comes 16 months after Lewis and Clark District Court Judge Kathy Seeley ruled in the landmark Held v. Montana lawsuit, explicitly stating that the state’s greenhouse gas emissions are “proven to be a substantial factor in causing climate impacts to Montana’s environment, and harm and injury to the youth plaintiffs.” Seeley’s decision also rolled back two laws enacted by the 2023 legislature that changed the Montana Environmental Policy Act.

The state immediately appealed the decision to the Montana Supreme Court, which heard oral arguments in the appeal in July. The court found in a 6-to-1 decision that Montana’s constitutional guarantee of a “clean and healthful environment” includes a stable climate system, “which is clearly within the object and true principles of the Framers inclusion of the right.”


“Plaintiffs showed at trial—without dispute—that climate change is harming Montana’s environmental life support system now and with increasing severity for the foreseeable future,” the order states. “Plaintiffs showed that climate change does impact the clear, unpolluted air of the Bob Marshall wilderness; it does impact the availability of clear water and clear air in the Bull Mountains; and it does exacerbate the wildfire stench in Missoula, along with the rest of the State.”
Why do you think today’s climate is any different than the climate of previous interglacial periods?
 
Why do you think today’s climate is any different than the climate of previous interglacial periods?

The Rocky Mountains are a tiny bit higher and this allows more moist low-level Gulf of Mexico air to flow northward under the Westerly stream ...

When Atlantic Ocean = 0 feet, the Rocky Mountains = 0 feet ... one's growth causes the uplift of the other ... this started before Montana even existed ... as she was uplifted out of the ocean, she had the climate she has today ... no change ... the average temperature of the coldest month has always been below freezing starting at the KT boundary ... and uninhabitable since ... ask Billy-Bob for an update on his weather today ...
 
The Montana Justices should be asked these questions under oath immediately...


1. Why does one Earth polar circle have 9+ times the ice of the other?
2. Why is there ice age glacier south of Arctic Circle on Greenland but no such ice age glacier north of Arctic Circle on Alaska?
3. If the oceans are "warming" why is the record decade for canes still the 1940s?
4. If the oceans are "rising" why can't we see one single photo of land sinking?
5. How did Co2 thaw North America and freeze Greenland at the same time?



and if they cannot answer them, the ruling should be reversed...


and evileyefleegle is both too stupid and too cowardly to even try....

Sorry, I agree with you some times, but not on this.
You are totally wrong on global warming, it is real, and the earth is in for a big problem.
But first to answer your questions:

1. The Earth has much more ice in the southern Antarctic than the northern Arctic because of precession and nutation.
The north pole wobbles towards the sun and get much more solar heat than the Antarctic, which does not wobble and therefore gets less sun.

2. There are ice age glaciers both in Greenland and Alaska.
Since Greenland is an island, it just gets more precipitation, so tends to have thicker glaciers.
They are more than 1 mile thick on Greenland. But they are melting fast.

3. The oceans have consistently been getting warmer for the last 150 year.
6le07RnuzCH9kXoY1NN47k0y3xqrQglK848nV_4oCyU.png


4. The fact the oceans are rising are obvious in any coastal area. They have more frequent flooding, like the Maldives, Florida, etc.

R.624f4fdb022f6338412699ae4b79503e


5. Everywhere is getting much warmer. No place is getting colder. Greenland has huge melt off.

imrs.php
 
This is all added on cost to what W/Mukasey and homO/Holder hid in the closet ....







and maybe hopefully truth will come out of the closet with Kash and Pam in charge, because this crap needs to stop. Those justices who ruled in favor of CO2 FRAUD should not be sitting on any bench except the one in the prison yard.

There is absolutely no question at all that in the last 150 years, we have about doubled the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere.
And the reason that matters, is that incoming solar energy is high frequency photons from fusion reactions.
That high frequency photonic energy goes right through the atmosphere to warm all object they hit.
But once the solar energy hits anything, it is absorbed and converted to low frequency infrared photonic radiation.
And CO2 is opaque to low frequency infrared radiation.
So the solar energy comes in but can't get back out.
It is trapped by the CO2.
That is why they call CO2 a "greenhouse" gas.
CO2 traps heat.

And it is even worse than that, since we have not seen the end yet.
The solar heat is just starting to accumulate.
It will likely keep doing so for a very long time, and we do not know how much hotter it will be before it stops accumulating, and will start to lose as much as it gains, and become in equilibrium.
The estimates are that it will end up taking several hundred years to stop accumulating and will reach over 10 degrees hotter than it is now. Which would mean an ocean rise of over 200 feet.
 
Montana leading the climate change fight??
Not what most would expect, unless they know Montana--a state that always goes its own way--and pays little attention to the national culture wars rhetoric:


Montana’s Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a landmark climate ruling that said the state was violating residents’ constitutional right to a clean environment by permitting oil, gas and coal projects without regard for global warming.
The justices, in a 6-1 ruling, rejected the state’s argument that greenhouse gases released from Montana fossil fuel projects are minuscule on a global scale and reducing them would have no effect on climate change, likening it to asking: “If everyone else jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?”

The plaintiffs can enforce their environmental rights “without requiring everyone else to stop jumping off bridges or adding fuel to the fire,” Chief Justice Mike McGrath wrote for the majority. “Otherwise the right to a clean and healthful environment is meaningless.”

Only a few other states, including Hawaii, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts and New York, have similar environmental protections enshrined in their constitutions.


The lawsuit filed in 2020 by 16 Montanans —who are now ages 7 to 23 — was considered a breakthrough in attempts by young environmentalists and their attorneys to use the courts to leverage action on climate change.


The Montana Supreme Court on Wednesday upheld a district court ruling in the nation’s first constitutional climate change trial , affirming that the youth plaintiffs have a “fundamental constitutional right to a clean and healthful environment” while revoking two Montana statutes.

The 70-page decision, authored by Chief Justice Mike McGrath, comes 16 months after Lewis and Clark District Court Judge Kathy Seeley ruled in the landmark Held v. Montana lawsuit, explicitly stating that the state’s greenhouse gas emissions are “proven to be a substantial factor in causing climate impacts to Montana’s environment, and harm and injury to the youth plaintiffs.” Seeley’s decision also rolled back two laws enacted by the 2023 legislature that changed the Montana Environmental Policy Act.

The state immediately appealed the decision to the Montana Supreme Court, which heard oral arguments in the appeal in July. The court found in a 6-to-1 decision that Montana’s constitutional guarantee of a “clean and healthful environment” includes a stable climate system, “which is clearly within the object and true principles of the Framers inclusion of the right.”


“Plaintiffs showed at trial—without dispute—that climate change is harming Montana’s environmental life support system now and with increasing severity for the foreseeable future,” the order states. “Plaintiffs showed that climate change does impact the clear, unpolluted air of the Bob Marshall wilderness; it does impact the availability of clear water and clear air in the Bull Mountains; and it does exacerbate the wildfire stench in Missoula, along with the rest of the State.”
No problem. No more oil products get sent to the State.
 
Translation

EMH is correct, evileye is too stupid and too cowardly to answer basic climate questions...

Sorry, but there really is no one of any consequences who still does not agree global warming is real and dangerous.

You know there are normal 110k year long ice age and warming cycles.
We ended the last ice age around 40k years ago, so then the warmest normal part of the cycle had to be about 30k years ago.
But that means ice age killed off massive amounts of plants and caused them to decay and release CO2.
It was that natural CO2 30k years ago that caused the planet to be at its natural warmest.
So then why is it getting even warmer?
Why have we doubled the CO2 in the last 150 years?
And how could doubling the CO2 not also cause a second artificial warming on top of the warmest of the natural warming cycle?
 
You are totally wrong on global warming, it is real


Laughable. Earth is not warming. There is absolutely no actual data showing it is. Surface Air Pressure proves it isn't warming.


The Earth has much more ice in the southern Antarctic than the northern Arctic because of precession and nutation.
The north pole wobbles towards the sun and get much more solar heat than the Antarctic, which does not wobble and therefore gets less sun


Completely wrong. Earth ice is all about where land is. Land within 600 miles of an Earth pole goes into ice age, which is continent specific. 90% of Earth is is on land mass Antarctica, 7% on Greenland, 0.3% on Ellesmere.




The oceans have consistently been getting warmer for the last 150 year.


Fudged fraud outed as such by the hurricane data.




The fact the oceans are rising are obvious in any coastal area. They have more frequent flooding


Once again, a CO2 FRAUD supporter tries to claim ocean rise by showing a STORM SURGE. A STORM SURGE is not ocean rise. There is NO OCEAN RISE and that is why you have to resort to showing us STORM SURGE.

The 1938 Cat 5 cane, the last time a Cat 5 got that far north, would've put homO and Big Mike's house on MV underwater.


Greenland has huge melt off.


LMFAO!!!

When ice age glacier grows out over ocean, it breaks off in the form of icebergs. That is why ice ages are continent specific. You have NO EVIDENCE that there is an ongoing net ice melt, because your side has no ocean rise, and that is why you try to show STORM SURGE and claim that is "ocean rise."





This is Maldives...

Discover 5 Most Affordable Places to Live Happily in Florida! - Race ...

Miami Local Legend: Kathryn Mikesell



NO OCEAN RISE....

 
we have about doubled the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere


There is NO WARMING in the atmosphere despite CO2 increase.

Sincerely,

highly correlated satellite and balloon data


All gasses absorb some part of EM spectrum. O3 absorbs powerful UV. CO2 absorbs WEAK IR which is why it isn't warming anything.
 
It was that natural CO2 30k years ago that caused the planet to be at its natural warmest


complete BS.

30k years ago a lot of North American Ice Age ice was still around, including in INDIANA...


Explain this.... Jurassic was warmer, wetter, and had much higher surface air pressure.... why?
 
Sorry, but there really is no one of any consequences who still does not agree global warming is real and dangerous.

Chris Landsea is one of the world's foremost experts on hurricanes and their formation ... he holds a fairly senior post at NOAA's National Hurricane Center in Florida, you can find his biography and professional credentials there ... he was kicked off the IPCC for his oppositional views ...

There's not one shred of evidence that hurricane intensity or frequency is changing ... not one shred ... this data is widely available ... go ahead and crunch the numbers yourself ... it's Middle School arithmetic to calculate averages ... and we only have 50 years of data ... use a spreadsheet ... easy peasy and frankly no excuse not to do this IF you're making crazy claims ...

We've seen a 1ºC warming already ... where has climate changed? ... you claim it is ... then show me your math ...
 
Back
Top Bottom