Gingrich fears 'atheist country ... dominated by radical Islamists'

[bucs90]

There is a mountain of science suggesting ID could be fact, independent of or along with evolution.

Show me the money.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Case-Creator-Journalist-Investigates-Scientific/dp/0310241448]Amazon.com: The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God (0025986241445): Lee Strobel: Books[/ame]

Start with this, it's a simple but really in depth look at this science. I was a non-believer coming out of college, for various reasons. Slowly, my outlook changed. Lots of good stuff out there, but I find this a good starter book into the topic.

 

[8537]

If you believe that, then your education has been very one sided. There is a mountain of science suggesting ID could be fact, independent of or along with evolution.

Give us one "fact" that supports ID. Before you go all stupid - saying "evolution is too complex to have occurred randomly" is not evidence that ID is true.

I'm not hard on either side of this issue, thus, I've had an open mind to read and consider all sides and ideas. Hard athetists or hard religious types refuse to acknowledge or even consider the opposing side.

The problem is that evolution is a theory developed over 150 years and supported by a wide range of verified scientific inquiry. It is based in science.

ID is a religious response to the scientific facts of evolution. It is based in an inability to accept the science because said science contradicts one's core values. ID is faith, not fact.

Not so in all cases. The sciene of evolution doesn't negate MY belief on creation, but supplements it. If there is a creator, and some sort of evolution obviously occurred, then that makes evolution a process of nature that was part of the larger creation. Thus, evolution then technically becomes part of a religious belief, right?

Only insomuch as religion has decided to incorporate established science into its beliefs. It really has no other choice - it can't, for example, continue to argue that the earth is the center of the universe...

So, it uses faith to explain science; which is a bastardization of science. I fully agree that people can believe in both evolution and creation - but that's because one is based in science and the other is based in faith.

This book came out way after I graduated college, but it's one good one that sums up some of the science of creation: Amazon.com: The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God (0025986241445): Lee Strobel: Books

I've read significant excerpts of this book. It suffers the same problems as ID: Just because evolution is complex and not completely understood doesn't mean that ID and a creator must exist. It only means that evolution is complex and partially understood.

My belief is grounded more in the mathematic impossibility of our existence. The almost unfathomable circumstances that had to be in place for us to exist, and how each and every one of them, each nearly impossible, all fell into place to create an environment we could exist.

But that's simply not the case. There are billions of planets circling billions of stars, and the fact that one of them produced what we call "life" and others perhaps produced similar outcomes isn't surprising - even with odds of 1:100 billion, there would be multiple life-sustaining planets.

The Drake Equation does a nice job of demonstrating this.

Also the idea of energy never dying, only changing form. Well, if you cut a person open, you can't find the energy of emotion that powers an athlete through a game, or the energy of emotion that causes a betrayed husband to murder his wife. That emotion is energy that must go somewhere, right?

There's a fundamental difference between emotional "energy" - the charge felt by a human under different types of emotional stimuli and physical energy.

So, I'm not one to say evolution is false, only that it's part of a bigger picture that we are nowhere close to grasping. But I do 100% believe there is a human soul that does not end when we die. What happens I don't know. But I know it doesn't die. And I know that blowing ourselves up wont get me 72 virgins.

As I said earlier, I have no problem with people who both believe the science of evolution and the faith of religion. My only concern is when the same people attempt to justify one using the other. One is science. The other is faith. They need no collaborative justification.

 

[Mr. Peepers]

When did murdering a child become "medicine"? "Medicine" heals, not kills.

A clump of cells is not a child. A child is not a child until it can survive / breathe outside on its own. The practice in question is a LEGAL medical procedure. I will not get into an abortion debate with you at this time because you "pro-life" people make me tired. So it is ok for chri$tians to kill abortion doctors because they disagree with a law? That is still killing in the name of religion, is it not? Hell, didn't one of them even kill a doctor IN CHURCH???

 

[bucs90]

when did murdering a child become "medicine"? "medicine" heals, not kills.

So you evade the point to hide the fact that you support extremists killing innocent American citizens!!!!! Get the **** out of my country, you're no longer welcome!!!! Somebody take his ass to Gitmo!!!!

No. 1st, I can read normal font fine.

2nd....I do NOT support extremists who kill innocent people of any nationality. THAT is why I'm against abortion. That child is innocent. Only an extremist would reach inside a woman and burn the child to death. It's barbaric.


And you want me out of your country? Come get me *****.

 

[gekaap]

Amazon.com: The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God (0025986241445): Lee Strobel: Books

Start with this, it's a simple but really in depth look at this science. I was a non-believer coming out of college, for various reasons. Slowly, my outlook changed. Lots of good stuff out there, but I find this a good starter book into the topic.

A journalist? Well, that is very convincing. I really love the "I was a non-believer" crowd. There's no such thing as a "non-believer" turned believer. There are only people who denied to them self their belief.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So essentially Newt's nightmare vision is an America overrun by mosques,

and strip clubs.

 

[bucs90]

Give us one "fact" that supports ID. Before you go all stupid - saying "evolution is too complex to have occurred randomly" is not evidence that ID is true.



The problem is that evolution is a theory developed over 150 years and supported by a wide range of verified scientific inquiry. It is based in science.

ID is a religious response to the scientific facts of evolution. It is based in an inability to accept the science because said science contradicts one's core values. ID is faith, not fact.

Not so in all cases. The sciene of evolution doesn't negate MY belief on creation, but supplements it. If there is a creator, and some sort of evolution obviously occurred, then that makes evolution a process of nature that was part of the larger creation. Thus, evolution then technically becomes part of a religious belief, right?

Only insomuch as religion has decided to incorporate established science into its beliefs. It really has no other choice - it can't, for example, continue to argue that the earth is the center of the universe...

So, it uses faith to explain science; which is a bastardization of science. I fully agree that people can believe in both evolution and creation - but that's because one is based in science and the other is based in faith.



I've read significant excerpts of this book. It suffers the same problems as ID: Just because evolution is complex and not completely understood doesn't mean that ID and a creator must exist. It only means that evolution is complex and partially understood.




But that's simply not the case. There are billions of planets circling billions of stars, and the fact that one of them produced what we call "life" and others perhaps produced similar outcomes isn't surprising - even with odds of 1:100 billion, there would be multiple life-sustaining planets.

The Drake Equation does a nice job of demonstrating this.

Also the idea of energy never dying, only changing form. Well, if you cut a person open, you can't find the energy of emotion that powers an athlete through a game, or the energy of emotion that causes a betrayed husband to murder his wife. That emotion is energy that must go somewhere, right?

There's a fundamental difference between emotional "energy" - the charge felt by a human under different types of emotional stimuli and physical energy.

So, I'm not one to say evolution is false, only that it's part of a bigger picture that we are nowhere close to grasping. But I do 100% believe there is a human soul that does not end when we die. What happens I don't know. But I know it doesn't die. And I know that blowing ourselves up wont get me 72 virgins.

As I said earlier, I have no problem with people who both believe the science of evolution and the faith of religion. My only concern is when the same people attempt to justify one using the other. One is science. The other is faith. They need no collaborative justification.

I'll first applaud your ability to have a civil discussion on this topic. Many can't. Even though we disagree, at least we can discuss it.

Yes, there is conflicting ideas and "evidence" on both sides, but I personally don't view it as 2 sides. Religion MUST include science as we progress. But like I said, I don't see science and religion necessarily as enemies. A person who believes in God must believe that ALL of his creation is part of him, thus, anything that is science is part of his creation. I'm fascinated by the universe and all it's wonders. I feel it's wonders and mystery enhance my belief that there is more to us than the physical.

I for one wish science was able to fully explain everything. How our design is just too perfect to be random. That idea baffles me. How everything, in all animals, is aligned right, designed right, works right, etc, etc. I saw it compared to a computer hard drive, but you can't see the man who programmed the stuff in it. Our brains are more complex than a computer, yet, it took thousands of years for us to develop a computer, while our brain supposedly happened by randon chemical chance? Possible. But really?

So basically my faith is that I don't think our minds turn to dust with our bodies. Where or what it becomes I don't know. But my open minded study of it continues. I do find, however, more and more scientists coming out with books supporting a creator, or at least some form of an afterlife. At least they are out there for anyone willing to give them an honest read.

 

[bucs90]

Amazon.com: The Case for a Creator: A Journalist Investigates Scientific Evidence That Points Toward God (0025986241445): Lee Strobel: Books

Start with this, it's a simple but really in depth look at this science. I was a non-believer coming out of college, for various reasons. Slowly, my outlook changed. Lots of good stuff out there, but I find this a good starter book into the topic.

A journalist? Well, that is very convincing. I really love the "I was a non-believer" crowd. There's no such thing as a "non-believer" turned believer. There are only people who denied to them self their belief.

An atheist journalist. His boss converted to Christ, and he set out to prove religion false with science. Didnt turn out how he hoped.


And yeah, I was a nonbeliever. A bad childhood event convinced me there was no God. Then, going to a christian college, my girlfriend wasn't in favor of pre-marital sex. I found it silly and was a staunch "There is no God" guy. I even told her "It's not 'pre-marital' if we dont' end up married" but even that didn't work.

Decades later, my outlook has changed.

But I still thought the massacre of innocent children was wrong, even in college.

 

[Dr.Drock]

And the Cafeteria Christians eat it up.

Yeah it's a great tactic, accomplishes 3 things in one sentence.

1.) Endorses hate for atheists
2.) Endorses hate for muslims
3.) Further promotes christianity as the way every human on earth should think

Those 3 things are some of the biggest principles of life to many who live in fear and trade in a share of their ignorance for hate to create a nice balance of the 2.

Don't agree with #3, but I can surely say that embracing tolerance for Islam, a religion full of lunatics who behead non-believers and stone women to death for GASP having sex......is quite stupid of us



As for "living in fear", any person who doesn't live in some sort of fear is an idiot. Do you have an alarm on your home? Do you lock your car doors? Do you wear a seat belt? I see "Doctor" on your name, so if you're a Dr, do you eat healthy? Do you exercise? Why? Are you afraid of a disease that you don't yet have? If you eat healthy, exercise and take precautionary medications, why? Stop living in fear.

No, no alarm. Don't always lock my car doors but when i do it's not because I'm scared of anything. Seatbelt is just common sense, not fear. I eat healthy not because I fear heart attacks, but because i like being healthy, same for exercise.

It's people who don't know any muslims screaming out in fear of them.

I like 90% of christians I've met.

I like 90% of muslims I've met.

I like 90% of atheists/buddhists/jews etc I've met.

The world and the people in it aren't as scary when you get to know them. But it can be very scary when you just buy into boogeyman stories and have zero life experience.

 

[bucs90]

So essentially Newt's nightmare vision is an America overrun by mosques,

and strip clubs.

I bet many decades ago, there were natives of Hawaii who feared their islands would be one day dominated by hotels, strip clubs, bars and fat rude tourists. Most laughed at the thought.

 

[8537]

Not so in all cases. The sciene of evolution doesn't negate MY belief on creation, but supplements it. If there is a creator, and some sort of evolution obviously occurred, then that makes evolution a process of nature that was part of the larger creation. Thus, evolution then technically becomes part of a religious belief, right?

Only insomuch as religion has decided to incorporate established science into its beliefs. It really has no other choice - it can't, for example, continue to argue that the earth is the center of the universe...

So, it uses faith to explain science; which is a bastardization of science. I fully agree that people can believe in both evolution and creation - but that's because one is based in science and the other is based in faith.



I've read significant excerpts of this book. It suffers the same problems as ID: Just because evolution is complex and not completely understood doesn't mean that ID and a creator must exist. It only means that evolution is complex and partially understood.




But that's simply not the case. There are billions of planets circling billions of stars, and the fact that one of them produced what we call "life" and others perhaps produced similar outcomes isn't surprising - even with odds of 1:100 billion, there would be multiple life-sustaining planets.

The Drake Equation does a nice job of demonstrating this.


There's a fundamental difference between emotional "energy" - the charge felt by a human under different types of emotional stimuli and physical energy.

So, I'm not one to say evolution is false, only that it's part of a bigger picture that we are nowhere close to grasping. But I do 100% believe there is a human soul that does not end when we die. What happens I don't know. But I know it doesn't die. And I know that blowing ourselves up wont get me 72 virgins.

As I said earlier, I have no problem with people who both believe the science of evolution and the faith of religion. My only concern is when the same people attempt to justify one using the other. One is science. The other is faith. They need no collaborative justification.

I'll first applaud your ability to have a civil discussion on this topic. Many can't. Even though we disagree, at least we can discuss it.

honestly, i was thinking the same thing. I know we usually toss words, but this is a good discussion.

Yes, there is conflicting ideas and "evidence" on both sides, but I personally don't view it as 2 sides. Religion MUST include science as we progress. But like I said, I don't see science and religion necessarily as enemies.

I don't see them as an enemies either, at all. I see them as two distinct and somewhat-irreconcilable premises that needn't challenge each other.

A person who believes in God must believe that ALL of his creation is part of him, thus, anything that is science is part of his creation. I'm fascinated by the universe and all it's wonders. I feel it's wonders and mystery enhance my belief that there is more to us than the physical.

100% respect for that position. If you believe in God, and that all creation is part of him, it flows logically that the universe is his to hold. I am similarly fascinated by the mysteries of the universe (both cosmic and micro scale). Our only difference might be that I don't attribute the vast unknown to God.

Still, that doesn't mean we can't both respect the wonders before us.

I for one wish science was able to fully explain everything. How our design is just too perfect to be random. That idea baffles me. How everything, in all animals, is aligned right, designed right, works right, etc, etc.

This is interesting, because you clearly don't approach this from ignorance. My point is simply that whatever outcome in the hundreds of billions of planets, some life form was likely to sit around thinking what a grand coincidence it is that they turned out as they are. I attribute that to evolution - the designs that didn't work well were out-reproduced by the designs that did "work right". Yet we're still not perfect (well, Courtney Cox is perfect but she's not reproducing enough to tip the balance)

I saw it compared to a computer hard drive, but you can't see the man who programmed the stuff in it. Our brains are more complex than a computer, yet, it took thousands of years for us to develop a computer, while our brain supposedly happened by randon chemical chance? Possible. But really?

So basically my faith is that I don't think our minds turn to dust with our bodies. Where or what it becomes I don't know. But my open minded study of it continues. I do find, however, more and more scientists coming out with books supporting a creator, or at least some form of an afterlife. At least they are out there for anyone willing to give them an honest read.

As I said, I appreciate that opinion.

 

[bucs90]

Yeah it's a great tactic, accomplishes 3 things in one sentence.

1.) Endorses hate for atheists
2.) Endorses hate for muslims
3.) Further promotes christianity as the way every human on earth should think

Those 3 things are some of the biggest principles of life to many who live in fear and trade in a share of their ignorance for hate to create a nice balance of the 2.

Don't agree with #3, but I can surely say that embracing tolerance for Islam, a religion full of lunatics who behead non-believers and stone women to death for GASP having sex......is quite stupid of us



As for "living in fear", any person who doesn't live in some sort of fear is an idiot. Do you have an alarm on your home? Do you lock your car doors? Do you wear a seat belt? I see "Doctor" on your name, so if you're a Dr, do you eat healthy? Do you exercise? Why? Are you afraid of a disease that you don't yet have? If you eat healthy, exercise and take precautionary medications, why? Stop living in fear.

No, no alarm. Don't always lock my car doors but when i do it's not because I'm scared of anything. Seatbelt is just common sense, not fear. I eat healthy not because I fear heart attacks, but because i like being healthy, same for exercise.

It's people who don't know any muslims screaming out in fear of them.

I like 90% of christians I've met.

I like 90% of muslims I've met.

I like 90% of atheists/buddhists/jews etc I've met.

The world and the people in it aren't as scary when you get to know them. But it can be very scary when you just buy into boogeyman stories and have zero life experience.

I have plenty of life experience. And my years as a cop may cause me to be a bit over-cautious. but honestly, if citizens knew half the shit that goes on at 2am but never makes the newspapers, you'd have your car and home locked religiously every day. Seriously.



But, back to topic, I think theres a difference in disliking Muslims and disliking Islam. I don't dislike the individual people. I dislike the religion. I find that unlike all other world religions, Islam is growing more violent, not more peaceful. Christianity many centuries ago was also violent and dangerous (Crusades). All religions have their bad periods. But Islam is not progressing to more peaceful behavior.

I dont think 9-11 or Fort Hood is a boogeyman story. And on a smaller scale, I bet the family of the military recruiter who was shot and killed in Arkansas by a black American Muslim in the name of Islam feels it is a boogeyman story. But must one be a direct victim to share the fear of those who are suffering the reality of being victims of radical Islam? I don't think so.

 

[WillFranklin]

We should fear being a Zionist country ran by Jews.

 

[bucs90]

Only insomuch as religion has decided to incorporate established science into its beliefs. It really has no other choice - it can't, for example, continue to argue that the earth is the center of the universe...

So, it uses faith to explain science; which is a bastardization of science. I fully agree that people can believe in both evolution and creation - but that's because one is based in science and the other is based in faith.



I've read significant excerpts of this book. It suffers the same problems as ID: Just because evolution is complex and not completely understood doesn't mean that ID and a creator must exist. It only means that evolution is complex and partially understood.




But that's simply not the case. There are billions of planets circling billions of stars, and the fact that one of them produced what we call "life" and others perhaps produced similar outcomes isn't surprising - even with odds of 1:100 billion, there would be multiple life-sustaining planets.

The Drake Equation does a nice job of demonstrating this.


There's a fundamental difference between emotional "energy" - the charge felt by a human under different types of emotional stimuli and physical energy.



As I said earlier, I have no problem with people who both believe the science of evolution and the faith of religion. My only concern is when the same people attempt to justify one using the other. One is science. The other is faith. They need no collaborative justification.

I'll first applaud your ability to have a civil discussion on this topic. Many can't. Even though we disagree, at least we can discuss it.

honestly, i was thinking the same thing. I know we usually toss words, but this is a good discussion.




I don't see them as an enemies either, at all. I see them as two distinct and somewhat-irreconcilable premises that needn't challenge each other.



100% respect for that position. If you believe in God, and that all creation is part of him, it flows logically that the universe is his to hold. I am similarly fascinated by the mysteries of the universe (both cosmic and micro scale). Our only difference might be that I don't attribute the vast unknown to God.

Still, that doesn't mean we can't both respect the wonders before us.

I for one wish science was able to fully explain everything. How our design is just too perfect to be random. That idea baffles me. How everything, in all animals, is aligned right, designed right, works right, etc, etc.

This is interesting, because you clearly don't approach this from ignorance. My point is simply that whatever outcome in the hundreds of billions of planets, some life form was likely to sit around thinking what a grand coincidence it is that they turned out as they are. I attribute that to evolution - the designs that didn't work well were out-reproduced by the designs that did "work right". Yet we're still not perfect (well, Courtney Cox is perfect but she's not reproducing enough to tip the balance)

I saw it compared to a computer hard drive, but you can't see the man who programmed the stuff in it. Our brains are more complex than a computer, yet, it took thousands of years for us to develop a computer, while our brain supposedly happened by randon chemical chance? Possible. But really?

So basically my faith is that I don't think our minds turn to dust with our bodies. Where or what it becomes I don't know. But my open minded study of it continues. I do find, however, more and more scientists coming out with books supporting a creator, or at least some form of an afterlife. At least they are out there for anyone willing to give them an honest read.

As I said, I appreciate that opinion.

Hmm. True, the billions of possibilities would eventually make life. My problem is that if our universe arose from a big bang, from nothing, and the universe is mostly rocks and gas, how did an organism develop to the point that it is sitting on a rock pondering it's own existence? The bacteria on my pillow aren't doing that. Neither is my dog pondering it's existence. It licks it's butt, so how could it

But anyway, yes, good discussion, enjoyed it.






Now, get back to worshipping Obama you tree hugging hippie!!!!!!

 

[bucs90]

We should fear being a Zionist country ran by Jews.

Why?

 

[Dr.Drock]

Don't agree with #3, but I can surely say that embracing tolerance for Islam, a religion full of lunatics who behead non-believers and stone women to death for GASP having sex......is quite stupid of us



As for "living in fear", any person who doesn't live in some sort of fear is an idiot. Do you have an alarm on your home? Do you lock your car doors? Do you wear a seat belt? I see "Doctor" on your name, so if you're a Dr, do you eat healthy? Do you exercise? Why? Are you afraid of a disease that you don't yet have? If you eat healthy, exercise and take precautionary medications, why? Stop living in fear.

No, no alarm. Don't always lock my car doors but when i do it's not because I'm scared of anything. Seatbelt is just common sense, not fear. I eat healthy not because I fear heart attacks, but because i like being healthy, same for exercise.

It's people who don't know any muslims screaming out in fear of them.

I like 90% of christians I've met.

I like 90% of muslims I've met.

I like 90% of atheists/buddhists/jews etc I've met.

The world and the people in it aren't as scary when you get to know them. But it can be very scary when you just buy into boogeyman stories and have zero life experience.

I have plenty of life experience. And my years as a cop may cause me to be a bit over-cautious. but honestly, if citizens knew half the shit that goes on at 2am but never makes the newspapers, you'd have your car and home locked religiously every day. Seriously.



But, back to topic, I think theres a difference in disliking Muslims and disliking Islam. I don't dislike the individual people. I dislike the religion. I find that unlike all other world religions, Islam is growing more violent, not more peaceful. Christianity many centuries ago was also violent and dangerous (Crusades). All religions have their bad periods. But Islam is not progressing to more peaceful behavior.

I dont think 9-11 or Fort Hood is a boogeyman story. And on a smaller scale, I bet the family of the military recruiter who was shot and killed in Arkansas by a black American Muslim in the name of Islam feels it is a boogeyman story. But must one be a direct victim to share the fear of those who are suffering the reality of being victims of radical Islam? I don't think so.

I live in Columbus Ohio with muslims everywhere, my stepmom was a police officer in New Albany (suburb of Columbus), I can guarantee you with zero doubt that the muslims here aren't more "criminal" than the christians. Go to a jail, tell me what God they believe in for the most part.

I dislike every religious book that promotes killing non-believers, so that would include the Bible and the Q'uran.

For every story you can come up with of a muslim killing a christian you can just as easily come up with one of a christian killing a muslim.

However those stories aren't scary to you, if a christian murders he's not a real christian to you, if a muslim murders to you he's the perfect representation of the religion.

That's just the natural bigotry and racism religion creates. Think about this statement, "Everyone who believes the same way I do belongs in heaven, everyone who doesn't belongs in hell." That's the biggest principle of both islam and christianity, disgusting to me.

 

[BlindBoo]

No, he is making a valid point that libtards dont fathom, because their brains are eaten up with liberalism.

Heres the point. A secular country will not take religious fanatics serious. They'll think "No one would die or murder in the name or religion, I mean, come on, fairy tale religion?" And they'll underestimate Islamic radicals.

They'll say we must "tolerate" the radicals. Why? Because the atheists will view the religious fanatics as inferior. As if they haven't evolved enough yet, and feel sorry for them, hence the need to be sympathetic and tolerant of them.

I heard it put will by a friend. Liberals look at bears as the type you see in a Disney movie, or a Nissan Leaf commercial. Harmless, fun, cuddly, fun animals. So when a small black bear mauls a child, they're shocked. "Oh my God!! I can't believe the bear did that!!!" Well, yeah, he's a BEAR FOR GODS SAKE!!!


Same concept. A secular America will tolerate and underestimate radical Islamists. And before long, the cancer will grow to the point that it's too late.

Makes perfect sense to those of us who:

A) Know bears will klll you.
B) Know radical Muslims will too.

Completely untrue. Secularist know very well that religionist have and will seek power over them. Never let your gaurd down when dealing with radical regligionist.

 

[bucs90]

No, no alarm. Don't always lock my car doors but when i do it's not because I'm scared of anything. Seatbelt is just common sense, not fear. I eat healthy not because I fear heart attacks, but because i like being healthy, same for exercise.

It's people who don't know any muslims screaming out in fear of them.

I like 90% of christians I've met.

I like 90% of muslims I've met.

I like 90% of atheists/buddhists/jews etc I've met.

The world and the people in it aren't as scary when you get to know them. But it can be very scary when you just buy into boogeyman stories and have zero life experience.

I have plenty of life experience. And my years as a cop may cause me to be a bit over-cautious. but honestly, if citizens knew half the shit that goes on at 2am but never makes the newspapers, you'd have your car and home locked religiously every day. Seriously.



But, back to topic, I think theres a difference in disliking Muslims and disliking Islam. I don't dislike the individual people. I dislike the religion. I find that unlike all other world religions, Islam is growing more violent, not more peaceful. Christianity many centuries ago was also violent and dangerous (Crusades). All religions have their bad periods. But Islam is not progressing to more peaceful behavior.

I dont think 9-11 or Fort Hood is a boogeyman story. And on a smaller scale, I bet the family of the military recruiter who was shot and killed in Arkansas by a black American Muslim in the name of Islam feels it is a boogeyman story. But must one be a direct victim to share the fear of those who are suffering the reality of being victims of radical Islam? I don't think so.

I live in Columbus Ohio with muslims everywhere, my stepmom was a police officer in New Albany (suburb of Columbus), I can guarantee you with zero doubt that the muslims here aren't more "criminal" than the christians. Go to a jail, tell me what God they believe in for the most part.

I dislike every religious book that promotes killing non-believers, so that would include the Bible and the Q'uran.

For every story you can come up with of a muslim killing a christian you can just as easily come up with one of a christian killing a muslim.

However those stories aren't scary to you, if a christian murders he's not a real christian to you, if a muslim murders to you he's the perfect representation of the religion.

That's just the natural bigotry and racism religion creates. Think about this statement, "Everyone who believes the same way I do belongs in heaven, everyone who doesn't belongs in hell." That's the biggest principle of both islam and christianity, disgusting to me.

Ah, not so man, I'm a Christian and believe there is no hell.

Funny you bring up jail. Radical Islam has been identified as a major problem in US jails. They are becoming recruiting grounds for radical islam. Sure, Christianity is still the dominant religion in jail, and when your population is over 80% Christian that is expected.

The problem is that Christianity and Islam are going in opposite directions. Islam is getting more violent and less tolerant, while almost all other religions are going the opposite direction.

I find the biggest differnce is that when a Christian kills, it seems it's for crime related purposes- Drugs, love gone bad, anger at a friend over money, etc, etc. I can't recall a Christian going on a mass killing spree in the name of Jesus while yelling "Jesus Akbar!!!!!"

 

[bucs90]

I live in Columbus Ohio with muslims everywhere, my stepmom was a police officer in New Albany (suburb of Columbus), I can guarantee you with zero doubt that the muslims here aren't more "criminal" than the christians. Go to a jail, tell me what God they believe in for the most part.

.

I'll agree with you on that strongly. In Atlanta (where I worked) we also had a large Muslim population. They rarely committed common street crimes. Drugs, robbery, rape, etc, etc. Their religion is one of discipline, that is for sure. The ghetto, minority "Christian" community committed a hugely disproportionate amount of the street crime in Atlanta.

But if someone flew a plane into a building there, or beheaded someone for not believing, or exploded a supermarket in the name of religion, I can promise you which community they'd have come from. Luckily most of that behavior hasn't come to America yet.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'll agree with you on that strongly. In Atlanta (where I worked) we also had a large Muslim population. They rarely committed common street crimes. Drugs, robbery, rape, etc, etc. Their religion is one of discipline, that is for sure. The ghetto, minority "Christian" community committed a hugely disproportionate amount of the street crime in Atlanta.

But if someone flew a plane into a building there, or beheaded someone for not believing, or exploded a supermarket in the name of religion, I can promise you which community they'd have come from. Luckily most of that behavior hasn't come to America yet.

Ok, so why is one instance of a dozen muslims killing thousands an epidemic to you but a nationwide instance of christians killing isn't being made a huge deal on a message board by you?

I know the answer, it's because those christians share your god.

It's not rare to hear a story on the news of a christian attacking a doctor, or a christian parent refusing medical treatment for their child, or a christian killing because "God told them to." But you just make light of it because they share your religion, when the other religion does the exact same thing is when you break into hysterics.