Germany rejects Obama

[Gunny]

It's good to see an american leader who can command the respect and admiration of a key ally, like Germany.

Over two hundred thousand cheering Germans came out to hear Obama's speech. Many of them waving american flags.

Damn, I missed those days when we were respected and admired by Allies.

Depending on who it is you're calling "allies" and what they were getting out of it. Seems to me most of our so-called "allies" were in it for what they could con us out of; which, we were more than willing to give to be called an ally.

We no longer have to protect anyone from the Soviet threat, so our "allies" have to be purchased with money. We only lose them when we ask, questions, don't fork over the coin, or actually want our way about something.

I'm for doing what our "allies" are doing ... what's best for US.

 

[Charles_Main]

Depending on who it is you're calling "allies" and what they were getting out of it. Seems to me most of our so-called "allies" were in it for what they could con us out of; which, we were more than willing to give to be called an ally.

We no longer have to protect anyone from the Soviet threat, so our "allies" have to be purchased with money. We only lose them when we ask, questions, don't fork over the coin, or actually want our way about something.

I'm for doing what our "allies" are doing ... what's best for US.

I call them fair weather friends. Believe me if Russia or someone else starts threatening, they will come calling again. Begging for us to protect them. I half way hope we would tell the to go fuck themselves if they did.

 

[Dirt McGirt]

There was a huge misconception about what was going on over in Germany in 2003. Although invading Iraq was not popular with ze Germans, there were several things that the news never reported. You have to consider several things:

German units were on rotations to Kosovo for UN peacekeeping operations.

They have a civil service obligation in Germany. Military service is similar to being drafted.

German units pulled 24 hour security on American bases while US troops were deployed to Kuwait and Iraq.

Germany's economy was in the shitter at the time.

 

[jreeves]

"I think he should sense right now at this very moment that the Brandenburg Gate is not the place to go," said Jan Techau of the German Council on Foreign Relations. "He should opt for another place. People have suggested the [town hall] where Kennedy spoke, which is less of a symbolic place, ironically,"
No, Obama is an idiot in foreign relations and he has been warned.

I believe your really a closet liberal trying to help Obama. Please....

At least until you can post something of substance...

 

[Charles_Main]

There was a huge misconception about what was going on over in Germany in 2003. Although invading Iraq was not popular with ze Germans, there were several things that the news never reported. You have to consider several things:

German units were on rotations to Kosovo for UN peacekeeping operations.

They have a civil service obligation in Germany. Military service is similar to being drafted.

German units pulled 24 hour security on American bases while US troops were deployed to Kuwait and Iraq.

Germany's economy was in the shitter at the time.

Not to mention Germany is Dependant on Russia for a huge chuck of its natural gas, and Russia probably pressured then to oppose us going into Iraq. I could be wrong be it seems plausible me.

 

[Chris]

It's good to see an american leader who can command the respect and admiration of a key ally, like Germany.

Over two hundred thousand cheering Germans came out to hear Obama's speech. Many of them waving american flags.

Damn, I missed those days when we were respected and admired by Allies.

Gaining the respect and admiration of allies is called leadership. The go-it-alone approach of George Bush has been a disaster.

 

[Charles_Main]

Gaining the respect and admiration of allies is called leadership. The go-it-alone approach of George Bush has been a disaster.

I do agree that we should strive for the respect of our allies. However I would say that a part of the reason we had to go it alone, is because many of our allies opposed invading Iraq for purely selfish and self serving reasons.

Promised oil deal from Saddam, Pressure from Russia, who supplies much of Europe with the Natural gas they used for Power. Are just a couple reasons that come to mind. Of course Bush being an arrogant fuck didn't help either, All I saying is some of them had purely selfish self serving reasons to not want to see Saddam over thrown.

 

[Charles_Main]

Gaining the respect and admiration of allies is called leadership. The go-it-alone approach of George Bush has been a disaster.

I do agree that we should strive for the respect of our allies. However I would say that a part of the reason we had to go it alone, is because many of our allies opposed invading Iraq for purely selfish and self serving reasons.

Promised oil deals from Saddam Worth Billions, Pressure from Russia, who supplies much of Europe with the Natural gas they use for Power. Are just a couple reasons that come to mind. Of course Bush being an arrogant fuck didn't help either, All I saying is some of them had purely selfish self serving reasons to not want to see Saddam over thrown.

The same way we had selfish and Self serving reasons to keep him in power so long like we did before he invaded Kuwait.

now as I have said, I was not for invading Iraq in 03, I was for invading them in 91. However I will say that while we should always try to get our allies on board to help us, That does not mean if we can not get them to help, we should not go it alone, if of course it is a worthy cause. Of course I do not believe Iraq was worthy at the time, but the point still stands.

Thinking Hypothetically for a min. Imagine if when we went to invade Afghanistan for example that for what ever reason our Allies said, no we wont help, and we think you should not do it. Now in that case I would have still been for Invading Afghanistan even if our allies would not help. Wouldn't you?

So in finishing What I am trying to say in my own messed up way, is allies are important, but we should never shy away from a worthy cause simply because our allies wont go along.

 

[Ninja]

Germans do not want Obama in their country

They're still pissed his uncle liberated their concentration camps.

 

[Reality]

I do agree that we should strive for the respect of our allies. However I would say that a part of the reason we had to go it alone, is because many of our allies opposed invading Iraq for purely selfish and self serving reasons.

Promised oil deal from Saddam, Pressure from Russia, who supplies much of Europe with the Natural gas they used for Power. Are just a couple reasons that come to mind. Of course Bush being an arrogant fuck didn't help either, All I saying is some of them had purely selfish self serving reasons to not want to see Saddam over thrown.

If this is the imply that the reasons the Oval Office had for going to Iraq were not self serving, I take great exception.

 

[Reality]

I do agree that we should strive for the respect of our allies. However I would say that a part of the reason we had to go it alone, is because many of our allies opposed invading Iraq for purely selfish and self serving reasons.

Promised oil deals from Saddam Worth Billions, Pressure from Russia, who supplies much of Europe with the Natural gas they use for Power. Are just a couple reasons that come to mind. Of course Bush being an arrogant fuck didn't help either, All I saying is some of them had purely selfish self serving reasons to not want to see Saddam over thrown.

The same way we had selfish and Self serving reasons to keep him in power so long like we did before he invaded Kuwait.

now as I have said, I was not for invading Iraq in 03, I was for invading them in 91. However I will say that while we should always try to get our allies on board to help us, That does not mean if we can not get them to help, we should not go it alone, if of course it is a worthy cause. Of course I do not believe Iraq was worthy at the time, but the point still stands.

Thinking Hypothetically for a min. Imagine if when we went to invade Afghanistan for example that for what ever reason our Allies said, no we wont help, and we think you should not do it. Now in that case I would have still been for Invading Afghanistan even if our allies would not help. Wouldn't you?

So in finishing What I am trying to say in my own messed up way, is allies are important, but we should never shy away from a worthy cause simply because our allies wont go along.

Our allies stand behind us for relevant causes. Afghanistan is an example of that. Iraq is an example of the opposite.

 

[Gunny]

Gaining the respect and admiration of allies is called leadership. The go-it-alone approach of George Bush has been a disaster.

Another "Deep Thoughts Moment" by Jack Handy.

 

[jillian]

Another "Deep Thoughts Moment" by Jack Handy.

Of course... better to call someone who tried to help us with intel after 9/11 part of the "axis of evil".

That's so much more effective.

 

[Gunny]

Of course... better to call someone who tried to help us with intel after 9/11 part of the "axis of evil".

That's so much more effective.

WTF are you rambling on about, woman? You going to have one of those blind, partisan rhetoric days on me, or what?

 

[editec]

Damn, I missed those days when we were respected and admired by Allies.

Those were the days when the Soviet threat was real, and America stood for something other than American hegemony.

It's not really as simple as that, of course, because the excesses of our foreign policies (especially our covert operations) during that period were part of the reason that today such support has eroded.

So let's just agree that we've lost a LOT of international goodwill and support that we once had, in the last 8 years, and leave it at that.

 

[editec]

Of course... better to call someone who tried to help us with intel after 9/11 part of the "axis of evil".

That's so much more effective.

Yes, like gunnyL, I also would like to read more about that, Jillian.

 

[Red Dawn]

I do agree that we should strive for the respect of our allies. However I would say that a part of the reason we had to go it alone, is because many of our allies opposed invading Iraq for purely selfish and self serving reasons.

Promised oil deals from Saddam Worth Billions, Pressure from Russia, who supplies much of Europe with the Natural gas they use for Power. Are just a couple reasons that come to mind. Of course Bush being an arrogant fuck didn't help either, All I saying is some of them had purely selfish self serving reasons to not want to see Saddam over thrown.

The same way we had selfish and Self serving reasons to keep him in power so long like we did before he invaded Kuwait.

now as I have said, I was not for invading Iraq in 03, I was for invading them in 91. However I will say that while we should always try to get our allies on board to help us, That does not mean if we can not get them to help, we should not go it alone, if of course it is a worthy cause. Of course I do not believe Iraq was worthy at the time, but the point still stands.

Thinking Hypothetically for a min. Imagine if when we went to invade Afghanistan for example that for what ever reason our Allies said, no we wont help, and we think you should not do it. Now in that case I would have still been for Invading Afghanistan even if our allies would not help. Wouldn't you?

So in finishing What I am trying to say in my own messed up way, is allies are important, but we should never shy away from a worthy cause simply because our allies wont go along.

I know what you're saying about nations acting in their own selfish self interests. We do it all the time, just like other nations.

But, if you yourself could recognize that Iraq wasn't a worthy cause, don't you think 500 million europeans could come to the same conclusion? I don't think it took a rocket scientist to recognize that invading and occupying Iraq was going to be a dangerous, expensive, and unneccessary fool's errand

 

[sealybobo]

Germans do not want Obama in their country spreading racism and hatred for Americans.

Germany's Merkel skeptical about Obama visit - CNN.com

From Diana Magnay
CNN

BERLIN, Germany (CNN) -- Presumptive U.S. Democratic presidential nominee Barack Obama hasn't even set foot on European soil in the campaign. Yet rumors about what he might do in Germany have ruffled feathers in the German government.
Sen. Barack Obama's campaign announced last month that he plans to visit Germany.

Sen. Barack Obama's campaign announced last month that he plans to visit Germany.

Obama's campaign announced last month that he plans to visit Germany as part of a trip to Europe and the Middle East this summer.

Chancellor Angela Merkel has voiced great skepticism about whether it's appropriate for Obama to speak at the Brandenburg Gate if he travels to Berlin.

Merkel spokesman Thomas Steg told reporters Wednesday that it's inappropriate for candidates to campaign in Germany -- let alone at a historical landmark so full of symbolism.

Former President Ronald Reagan was at the Brandenburg Gate in 1987 when he made famous remarks to Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

Feet away from the Berlin Wall which divided the city, Reagan said, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"

Obama, however, is not the president, and some agree with Merkel that a speech at the Brandenburg Gate would not be appropriate.

"I think he should sense right now at this very moment that the Brandenburg Gate is not the place to go," said Jan Techau of the German Council on Foreign Relations. "He should opt for another place. People have suggested the [town hall] where Kennedy spoke, which is less of a symbolic place, ironically,"

Funny you say that when wherever Bush goes, people show up to protest and burn American flags. Obama was warmly received by 200,000 and no protesters. You guys are sooooo desperate.

 

[Reality]

WRONG THREAD...sorry

 

[Reality]

Yes, like gunnyL, I also would like to read more about that, Jillian.

right thread this time.


How Neocons Sabotaged Iran's Help on al-Qaeda - by Gareth Porter