Gaza's Children Face "Bombs Disguised as Toys"

Survived because they were held as hostages.

They didn't survive because Palestinians wanted to help them.
How else could they have survived? They must have been given some food and water otherwise they would have died of starvation and/or dehydration.

There was also the tragedy of the three hostages killed by the IDF with the IDF Chief of Staff stating that they had violated the rules of war. Three hostages mistakenly killed by IDF fire screamed ‘help' | The Jerusalem Post

And not one Palestinian has come forward to say they did anything to help the hostages.
Given the conditions prevailing in Gaza at present are you really surprised? Look at the state of the region. It is hardly the proverbial walk in the park.
 
Maybe you should be looking harder for facts instead of just seeking confirmation bias because this took me 2 seconds to find in a Google search.

That UN Statement is from 2021.

You alleged there were child soldiers in the atrocity of 7 October 2023, hence my request for a link because I do not recall reading about such individuals in that massacre.

Of course we can assume that they were present, but you seem rather averse to employing conjecture or assumptions.
 
If only we could find someone to debate us on the actual policies, government, and politicians of Israel instead of posting WWII poems alluding to the evil nature of Jews.
Thank you for ably demonstrating you have no idea what Auden's poem was about.
 
Again, it was the choice of Palestinians to commit genocide on 10/7 and to commit every single terrorist act before then.
It was not the choice of every single Palestinian.
Regardless of what Israel may or may not have done, Palestinians made the choice to do what they did. They didn't have to.
See above.
And the degree to which you say Israel supported Hamas is what? To what degree?
Do you not know?




Or Monaco, or Abu Dhabi, or whatever. The point is that they could have created a viable nation-state with an economy not built around terrorism and jihad. They had 20 years to do that and what did they do instead? Dug tunnels, built rockets, and indoctrinated their children.


The only people preventing that from happening are Hamas. Every misfortune Palestinians face in Gaza is because of Hamas.
You do rather fit the example given in one of those articles I previously linked. However, I suspect that many Palestinians would agree with you. Prior to the atrocity in 2023 support for Hamas was declining. This article deals with polling prior to October 2023 https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2023/12/palestinians-views-oct-7
Right, but it's not an essential item like food or water or concrete or fuel, or any of the things people allege that Israel and Egypt prevented from being imported.
We know that Israel put blocks on food aid getting to Gaza after 2023 so let us not try and pretend otherwise.
So it creates a much different perspective on the "occupation", wouldn't you say?
In my opinion the problem lies in Israel having never defined its borders. Its control of "occupied areas" merely excuses land grabs and the intimidation of the indigenous populations whom many Israelis would prefer not to be there.
 
There is no occupation in Gaza.
It was occupied for some time and even after withdrawal Israel still figuratively (and sometimes literally) calls the shots.
But even if there was, I would do what the Jewish people did and build a Tel Aviv.
Would you include the trafficked sex workers for the brothels?

 
Preventing Gazan Palestinians from visiting family in the West Bank. https://www.972mag.com/gaza-palestinian-family-separation-gisha/
Right, but why? Because Palestinians launch attacks from Gaza, like 10/7. The walls and checkpoints and restricted access is because of the 2nd Intifada, when Hamas was sending child suicide bombers across the border so they could blow them up on buses, in cafes, in dance clubs, any soft target they could find.

But not all Palestinians are restricted, and when they are it's because of heightened attacks.

Also, Palestinians were able to go into Israel for work. Unfortunately, those Palestinians shared all the soft targets that Hamas attacked, where to go, where to find the shelters. Hamas doesn't pull off 10/7 without the cooperation and complicity of the Gazans.
 
Ah, but that's two sided, because Palestinians discriminate against Jews in J/S/EJ.

Not just discriminate against Jews, murder them.

That very famous photo of the Palestinian showing his bloody hands to the cheering swine got those bloody hands by murdering two IDF reservists who accidentally ended up in a Palestinian controlled territory off-duty. Instead of directing them back to where they came, Palestinians murdered them.
 
Wait a second, because your partner Kuska said that Israel gives Palestinians what they need to survive. That it's "not far" from starvation.

"Not far" being a pretty significant qualifier.


https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israeli-study-finds-starvation-gaza-was-result-deliberate-policy
OMG people don't like being in prison???

Wow, who could have imagined that being in prison sucks?

Say, how were Israeli prisoners in Gaza treated when they were taken hostage? Oh right...

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/...ian-women-face-harsh-conditions-israeli-jails
Numerous articles on different topics Distorted Definition: Silencing Advocacy for Palestinian Rights — Palestine Legal
So these are all just allegations not backed up by much.

And how is it genocide when the same number of people are in Gaza today as there were on 10/7?

Please explain the "genocide" within the context of the population being the same? How could there have been genocide if the population remains constant? How do you explain that?
 
All the above is entirely irrelevant to what I posted.
Nope. It is entirely relevant. You're saying that people have recognized a Palestinian state, but none of you can explain what that state actually looks like. Because you haven't put any thought into it.

So what does a Palestinian state realistically look like?

Do you think it would be a democracy like Israel? Do you think it would be a Constitutional Monarchy like they once had in Iran? Or do you think it would be yet another Islamist dictatorship like every other Muslim country?

What kind of Palestinian state are you recognizing?
 
There are those within Israel who have warned and criticised about policy .
Right, but that still doesn't explain why you are qualifying everything. For you, it's like Palestinians bear no responsibility for what they inflict upon themselves.

They don't have to choose to do any jihad, but they do.


I pointed out that Israel helped to create Hamas not that it created the organisation. There is a difference.
Helped how? To what degree and for how long?

An interesting article in The Conversation a few days after the atrocity of 7 October 2023:


The scale of Hamas’ attack on Israel on 7 and 8 October is unprecedented and the failure of the Israeli army and secret services, astonishing. Yet for observers such as former Israeli ambassador to France, Elie Barnavi, the events that have unfolded in the region over the past days were “surprising but predictable”.

On the ground, from which I have just returned, there is a clear sense of growing despair and latent violence among the Palestinian population. No one is talking about “peace” any more, but rather “the end of the occupation”, as young people evoke “resistance, by all means”.

This is the context in which Hamas carried out its attack. And the militant organisation used this despair to legitimise itself and win the support of a section of Palestinian public opinion.
So indulging the delusion that genocide is "resistance" excuses Palestinians for committing war crimes.

And Gaza wasn't occupied on 10/7. Israel left in 2006. So by "occupation", they mean Israel itself is occupied land. That's how they lie to themselves to justify all the atrocities and war crimes they commit.


Gaza, an open-air prison
In Gaza, where Hamas operates, 2.3 million Palestinians are crammed into 365 km2, making the Gaza Strip one of the world’s most densely populated territories. More than two thirds of the population live below the poverty line and, according to the Israeli NGO B’Tselem, the unemployment rate is 75% among people under 29.

Since 2007, this territory has also been subject to an Israeli blockade by sea, air and land, which almost entirely deprives it of contact with the outside world.

Gazans are regularly cut off from water and electricity, and depend mainly on international aid. Entry into and exit from Gaza depend on permits given by Israeli forces and are extremely rare, earning it the nickname of “open-air prison”.

So funny. What prison do you know of that allows the prisoners to have cars, concrete, steel, glass, electronics, perfume, communications, television stations, radio stations, internet access, sugar, fuel, rebar, construction equipment, pipes, free travel outside of Gaza (except to Israel, of course because of the terrorism), cafes, auto dealerships, mansions, freakin' ice cream shops?

Please, show me a prison that accommodates the prisoners. Go ahead. Just one.

Concerns were also being raised some time before that atrocity with comparisons being made between the West Bank and Nazi Germany: Ex-IDF general likens military control of West Bank to Nazi Germany
That's a favorite tactic, to accuse Israel of being Nazis because you know that Nazis killed Jews so you try to invert that and exaggerate what is happening to Palestinians. The Jews killed by the Nazis were killed for simply existing. Palestinians die because they are used as human shields...which is a war crime.

it is a war crime to use human shields, and that is what Palestinians do every single day. They commit war crimes every single day.

Is recruiting child soldiers "resistance"? Is using civilian infrastructure to launch attacks "resistance"? Is not wearing uniforms as an organized force "resistance"? Is using human shields "resistance"? No. Those are all war crimes.

Nazis commit war crimes. That was Nuremberg. Nazis being held to account for their war crimes. So when are you going to hold Palestinians accountable for theirs?
 
15th post
You mean like the ones in Lebanon that Hezbollah murdered?

Or the ones in Gaza who are segregated by apartheid?
Oh so you do recognise that Palestinian Christians exist.

Are you lumping them into your idea that all Palestinians supported the atrocity of 2023?
 
Do you not know?


So blaming Jews for the actions of Hamas is antisemitism.

You're not holding Palestinians accountable when you make these wild claims.

And again, your article does not describe the degree or extent. It just offers vague opinions.

You do rather fit the example given in one of those articles I previously linked. However, I suspect that many Palestinians would agree with you. Prior to the atrocity in 2023 support for Hamas was declining. This article deals with polling prior to October 2023 https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2023/12/palestinians-views-oct-7
Support may or may not have been declining. But Hamas wasn't going to hold elections in 2023 any more than they would hold them ifrom 2007-2022.

So you can't really go by that because the only means by which you can actually make a solid claim would be through elections.

We know from experience that polls do not necessarily reflect actual results. That's why Trump won in 2016 and 2024. People SAID they were sick of him, yet he won anyway. His approval rating was below 40%, yet he won 51% of the vote.

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2023/12/palestinians-views-oct-7
We know that Israel put blocks on food aid getting to Gaza after 2023 so let us not try and pretend otherwise.
First of all, the aid was temporarily halted because it kept falling into Hamas' hands. No aid was held back for organizations and people not linked to Hamas. Unfortunately, Hamas controls Gaza, so pretty everything is under their control. There's all those videos of masked, armed Hamas driving aid trucks all over. We also know from hostage testimony that Hamas was never wanting for food. They were hoarding it for themselves, or selling it back to Palestinian people. So that's why food was temporarily halted.

Now, more importantly, can you please name me any other conflict in human history where the side that was attacked provided aid to the side that attacked them, in the middle of a war that second side started?

Is Ukraine supposed to provide aid to Russia?

Why is Israel the only country that is expected to care for the people who attacked them? Isn't it Hamas' responsibility to care for the Palestinian people? How are they doing that by using them as human shields and stealing all the aid? Or using the aid for staged photo ops?

In my opinion the problem lies in Israel having never defined its borders.
Israel's borders are clearly defined. The problem for Palestinians isn't Israel's borders, it's Israel's existence.

And if we are going to talk about borders, how come Jordan and Egypt didn't create a Palestine when they controlled J/S/EJ and Gaza for 20 years?

Isn't that "Palestinian land"? Why did Jordan not create a Palestine in J/S/EJ from 1948-1967? Why didn't Egypt create a Palestine in Gaza from 1948-1967?

Its control of "occupied areas" merely excuses land grabs and the intimidation of the indigenous populations whom many Israelis would prefer not to be there.
Again, if those areas are "occupied" today (which Gaza isn't, but whatever those details don't matter I guess), what were they from 1948-1967?
 
Right, but that still doesn't explain why you are qualifying everything. For you, it's like Palestinians bear no responsibility for what they inflict upon themselves.

They don't have to choose to do any jihad, but they do.
You should refer back to those lines from Auden.
Helped how? To what degree and for how long?
Long enough judging by that Times of Israel article.
So indulging the delusion that genocide is "resistance" excuses Palestinians for committing war crimes.
Hmm... war crimes is an interesting term given what Israel has been accused of doing and the numerous warrants for the arrest of Netanyahu and others in his government.
And Gaza wasn't occupied on 10/7. Israel left in 2006. So by "occupation", they mean Israel itself is occupied land. That's how they lie to themselves to justify all the atrocities and war crimes they commit.
Well historically Israel did occupy the region. The fledgling state took over an area and forced the indigenous populations to leave.
So funny. What prison do you know of that allows the prisoners to have cars, concrete, steel, glass, electronics, perfume, communications, television stations, radio stations, internet access, sugar, fuel, rebar, construction equipment, pipes, free travel outside of Gaza (except to Israel, of course because of the terrorism), cafes, auto dealerships, mansions, freakin' ice cream shops?

Please, show me a prison that accommodates the prisoners. Go ahead. Just one.
You seem to be unfamiliar with the use of metaphors.
That's a favorite tactic, to accuse Israel of being Nazis because you know that Nazis killed Jews so you try to invert that and exaggerate what is happening to Palestinians.
The Nazis killed others as well. Let us not forget that.
The Jews killed by the Nazis were killed for simply existing.

Palestinians die because they are used as human shields...which is a war crime.

it is a war crime to use human shields
Have you ever looked on the site Breaking the Silence?
, and that is what Palestinians do every single day. They commit war crimes every single day.
Every single day? Do you have attested confirmation for that comment? Or are you just engaging in conjecture and assuming?
Is recruiting child soldiers "resistance"? Is using civilian infrastructure to launch attacks "resistance"? Is not wearing uniforms as an organized force "resistance"?
I do not recall reading that the Jewish freedom fighters/terrorists (take your pick) in the late 1940s wore a uniform.
Is using human shields "resistance"? No. Those are all war crimes.
See earlier comment.
Nazis commit war crimes. That was Nuremberg. Nazis being held to account for their war crimes. So when are you going to hold Palestinians accountable for theirs?
When should we put Israel on trial?
 
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