Fully Solar City Planned in Florida

[catzmeow]

Coming Soon to the Sunshine State: The Sunshine City

...Kitson has been promising unprecedented sustainability all along, but today's shocker was the announcement of Florida Power & Light's plan to provide electricity for Babcock Ranch with a 75-megawatt photovoltaic plant nearly twice as big as the current record-holder in Germany. Solar power has been slow to catch on in the gas-powered Sunshine State, but FPL hopes to start construction on the 400-acre, $300 million plant by year's end. The utility expects it will provide enough power for Babcock Ranch and beyond. At $4 million per megawatt - FPL estimates the costs to its customers at about 31 cents per month over the life of the project - it should be more than four times as cost-effective as the nuclear reactors FPL is trying to build near the Florida Keys.

Sweetness.

 

[ItsFairmont]

I hope it works.

It's a great idea.

I'm surprised more houses don't have solar. I even have a friend who lives in a neighborhood that is resisting his efforts to add solar panels to his home. Some people have no vision.

 

[catzmeow]

I hope it works.

It's a great idea.

I'm surprised more houses don't have solar. I even have a friend who lives in a neighborhood that is resisting his efforts to add solar panels to his home. Some people have no vision.

Solar is perfect for our climate in Florida. I don't get people who would be resistant to solar. Stupidity embodied.

 

[auditor0007]

It sounds workable. The only part I'm not certain about is keeping the majority of those that live there working there.

 

[xotoxi]

Hey Said1 and Toro...

This is an idea for you and your people!

 

[krotchdog]

Monday, March 02, 2009
Minerals for solar panels


The announcement from Tempe-based First Solar last week that they broke the $1 per watt cost for solar photovoltaic panels based on cadmium-tellurium (CdTe), has drawn global attention [right, First Solar FS Series 2 PV Module]. The standard silicon-based solar panels run about 3 times that cost.

Jake, who blogs at Pure Pedantry, looks at what the growing demand for solar panels made from 'exotic' materials means for the solar industry.

He references a new University of Calif./Lawrence Berkeley National Lab study that concludes that CdTe works for meeting a small amount of global energy demand but the economics change when solar makes up 20-30% of the mix. At the higher level, more common/easier to produce minerals will be more successful even though they are not as efficient as the rarer but more costly minerals.

Iron pyrite, copper sulfide, and copper oxide are attractive options according to a report in

This is why SOLAR IS SUBSIDIZED.

 

[manu1959]

very cool....here is one i have been working on for the past few years....

Sonoma Mountain Village

 

[krotchdog]

How much energy does it take to run the industry that makes solar panels.

How much pollution does the fab industry of Asia create making the material for solar panels.

Near as I can tell, the worlds biggest solar farm cannot power the industry it takes to make solar panels.

You cannot be green unless you can present all the facts.

 

[catzmeow]

It sounds workable. The only part I'm not certain about is keeping the majority of those that live there working there.

Dude, it's FLORIDA...aka God's Waiting Room. The majority of the population in that part of Florida is retired. You just need enough to provide basic services.

 

[catzmeow]

How much energy does it take to run the industry that makes solar panels.

How much pollution does the fab industry of Asia create making the material for solar panels.

Near as I can tell, the worlds biggest solar farm cannot power the industry it takes to make solar panels.

You cannot be green unless you can present all the facts.

Are you suggesting that solar panels that operate for an effective lifespan of 40 years can't replace their own carbon footprint?

In addition to whatever is wrong with your dog's crotch, I think there's a problem with your brain.

 

[Old Rocks]

Monday, March 02, 2009
Minerals for solar panels


The announcement from Tempe-based First Solar last week that they broke the $1 per watt cost for solar photovoltaic panels based on cadmium-tellurium (CdTe), has drawn global attention [right, First Solar FS Series 2 PV Module]. The standard silicon-based solar panels run about 3 times that cost.

Jake, who blogs at Pure Pedantry, looks at what the growing demand for solar panels made from 'exotic' materials means for the solar industry.

He references a new University of Calif./Lawrence Berkeley National Lab study that concludes that CdTe works for meeting a small amount of global energy demand but the economics change when solar makes up 20-30% of the mix. At the higher level, more common/easier to produce minerals will be more successful even though they are not as efficient as the rarer but more costly minerals.

Iron pyrite, copper sulfide, and copper oxide are attractive options according to a report in

This is why SOLAR IS SUBSIDIZED.

The cost of a coal fired plant is about $2 a watt, then you have to buy the coal.

 

[Old Rocks]

How much energy does it take to run the industry that makes solar panels.

How much pollution does the fab industry of Asia create making the material for solar panels.

Near as I can tell, the worlds biggest solar farm cannot power the industry it takes to make solar panels.

You cannot be green unless you can present all the facts.

You work for big energy? Do your own research, boy.

 

[krotchdog]

Old Rocks, nothing in the energy industry is measured by a "watt", now thats three times you have called me names and I have yet to flame you once. I am doing my homework, apparently I am getting an "A", you are getting an "E". Dont consider that a flame, you refered to this as homework and used a unit of energy incorrectly.

Catzmeow

Are you suggesting that solar panels that operate for an effective lifespan of 40 years can't replace their own carbon footprint?

First to address the comment about my pic, that is picture of a dog on the streets in Brazil, it really makes me sad to see these animals suffer. The people passed a law out lawing the dog catcher, now the dogs roam in misery, flea bitten, starving, some diseased, this dog's crotch you refer to is that way because of the constant scratching to relieve itsself of the flea infestation. now that I pointed it out you probabaly notice the poor suffering animal is scratching itself against that rough looking wall. Over Christmas this dog died.

Solar farms are dirty, they take massive amounts of electrical energy to produce, all the pollution is pretty much unregulated in china, so every time we buy a solar panel we will be dumping our waste in china, they are the biggest manufacturers of everything as you already know. I am sure any company that is successful here will move thier operation to china. Either way they take up too much space, even the rich that have solar panels on thier roofs are still tied to the grid to meet thier demands. You must look at cost as well.

 

[Seraega]

Old Rocks, nothing in the energy industry is measured by a "watt", now thats three times you have called me names and I have yet to flame you once. I am doing my homework, apparently I am getting an "A", you are getting an "E". Dont consider that a flame, you refered to this as homework and used a unit of energy incorrectly.

Catzmeow

Are you suggesting that solar panels that operate for an effective lifespan of 40 years can't replace their own carbon footprint?

First to address the comment about my pic, that is picture of a dog on the streets in Brazil, it really makes me sad to see these animals suffer. The people passed a law out lawing the dog catcher, now the dogs roam in misery, flea bitten, starving, some diseased, this dog's crotch you refer to is that way because of the constant scratching to relieve itsself of the flea infestation. now that I pointed it out you probabaly notice the poor suffering animal is scratching itself against that rough looking wall. Over Christmas this dog died.

Solar farms are dirty, they take massive amounts of electrical energy to produce, all the pollution is pretty much unregulated in china, so every time we buy a solar panel we will be dumping our waste in china, they are the biggest manufacturers of everything as you already know. I am sure any company that is successful here will move thier operation to china. Either way they take up too much space, even the rich that have solar panels on thier roofs are still tied to the grid to meet thier demands. You must look at cost as well.

You're flat out wrong. The energy required to create a solar cell is recaptured within the first 2 years of use. After that it's all free energy. FREE compared to the 6 tons of coal it takes per year to power my home.

Stop being so smarmy and actually do the homework you're claiming to have done.

 

[krotchdog]

Old Rocks, nothing in the energy industry is measured by a "watt", now thats three times you have called me names and I have yet to flame you once. I am doing my homework, apparently I am getting an "A", you are getting an "E". Dont consider that a flame, you refered to this as homework and used a unit of energy incorrectly.

Catzmeow

Are you suggesting that solar panels that operate for an effective lifespan of 40 years can't replace their own carbon footprint?

First to address the comment about my pic, that is picture of a dog on the streets in Brazil, it really makes me sad to see these animals suffer. The people passed a law out lawing the dog catcher, now the dogs roam in misery, flea bitten, starving, some diseased, this dog's crotch you refer to is that way because of the constant scratching to relieve itsself of the flea infestation. now that I pointed it out you probabaly notice the poor suffering animal is scratching itself against that rough looking wall. Over Christmas this dog died.

Solar farms are dirty, they take massive amounts of electrical energy to produce, all the pollution is pretty much unregulated in china, so every time we buy a solar panel we will be dumping our waste in china, they are the biggest manufacturers of everything as you already know. I am sure any company that is successful here will move thier operation to china. Either way they take up too much space, even the rich that have solar panels on thier roofs are still tied to the grid to meet thier demands. You must look at cost as well.

You're flat out wrong. The energy required to create a solar cell is recaptured within the first 2 years of use. After that it's all free energy. FREE compared to the 6 tons of coal it takes per year to power my home.

Stop being so smarmy and actually do the homework you're claiming to have done.

So how much does it take?

 

[Seraega]

Old Rocks, nothing in the energy industry is measured by a "watt", now thats three times you have called me names and I have yet to flame you once. I am doing my homework, apparently I am getting an "A", you are getting an "E". Dont consider that a flame, you refered to this as homework and used a unit of energy incorrectly.

Catzmeow

First to address the comment about my pic, that is picture of a dog on the streets in Brazil, it really makes me sad to see these animals suffer. The people passed a law out lawing the dog catcher, now the dogs roam in misery, flea bitten, starving, some diseased, this dog's crotch you refer to is that way because of the constant scratching to relieve itsself of the flea infestation. now that I pointed it out you probabaly notice the poor suffering animal is scratching itself against that rough looking wall. Over Christmas this dog died.

Solar farms are dirty, they take massive amounts of electrical energy to produce, all the pollution is pretty much unregulated in china, so every time we buy a solar panel we will be dumping our waste in china, they are the biggest manufacturers of everything as you already know. I am sure any company that is successful here will move thier operation to china. Either way they take up too much space, even the rich that have solar panels on thier roofs are still tied to the grid to meet thier demands. You must look at cost as well.

You're flat out wrong. The energy required to create a solar cell is recaptured within the first 2 years of use. After that it's all free energy. FREE compared to the 6 tons of coal it takes per year to power my home.

Stop being so smarmy and actually do the homework you're claiming to have done.

So how much does it take?

well lets see... a 90 watt solar cell generates the amount of energy needed to create it in 2 years time.... can't you do math? You claim to be an expert on the subject. I'm assuming you're some kind of electrical or civil engineer, right?

Here's a good place to start doing some real homework: http://www.mefl.com.au/documents/93_PV_embodied_energy.pdf

For many years there has been a
myth floating around that photo-
voltaic (PV) solar panels never
produce enough energy to ‘pay back’
the energy used in their production.
This has been used as the basis of the
argument that they do not have a net
environmental benefit. However, this
myth is false and is very damaging to a
product with major environmental
benefits.
Payback time
The payback time for monocrystalline
panels in a roof-mounted grid-interac-
tive system is 3.2 years (based on a study
by Alsema and Nieuwlaar, 2000). The
payback times include the energy con-
sumed in the manufacture, transport,
installation, operation and decommis-
sioning of a photovoltaic array. They also
include the energy used to produce the
other components in a system, such as
control equipment and inverters.
PVs take more energy to produce than they ever generate? What rubbish!


(continued at link above)

 

[krotchdog]

Sareaga, you saying so without posting both figures does not make the point and does not make a debate. If you know how long, how many watts, than tell us how much energy it takes to make that panel, tell us how much it weighs, you are not even telling us what type of solar panel so I cannot even look it up myself if I wanted to. Quit telling me to chase my tale, tell us the figure, otherwise you are posting nothing more than propagande because you do not know the figure.

tell us what you are talking about and provied the specs so I can do my own checking.

My time today on the computer is over, see tomorrow.

 

[Seraega]

Sareaga, you saying so without posting both figures does not make the point and does not make a debate. If you know how long, how many watts, than tell us how much energy it takes to make that panel, tell us how much it weighs, you are not even telling us what type of solar panel so I cannot even look it up myself if I wanted to. Quit telling me to chase my tale, tell us the figure, otherwise you are posting nothing more than propagande because you do not know the figure.

tell us what you are talking about and provied the specs so I can do my own checking.

My time today on the computer is over, see tomorrow.

Dear Krotchdog.

Please see the article I posted above as well as the article I'll post below.

Solar Energy Technologies Program: Learning About PV: The Myths of Solar Electricity

The energy payback period is also dropping rapidly. For example, it takes today's typical crystalline silicon module about 4 years to generate more energy than went into making the module in the first place. The next generation of silicon modules, which will employ a different grade of silicon and use thinner layers of semiconductor material, will have an energy payback of about 2 years. And thin-film modules will soon bring the payback down to one year or less. This means that these modules will produce "free" and clean energy for the remaining 29 years of their expected life.

I don't know why we have to have 3 separate threads with you posting the same lies, but here we are again I'm happy to oblige and post the facts.

I don't know specifically the cells that will be used to create this new solar city, but I am certain that the decision makers are doing their homework (unlike you who is just parroting some old talking points) and picking the most efficient cells which would have the quickest pay back time. However, I've provided 2 sources that clearly show that the energy used to create solar cells is most certainly able to be recovered from the cells themselves.

 

[krotchdog]

Sareaga, your right we dont need three different threads so lets quit posting here. Its simple why I started the other, I like the credit, its human nature. I figure if I am doing more work than the person who started this thread or the other one than it shoud go under the Krotchdog. You can understand that cant you, I am honest with you. I intended to ignore all the other threads but I am not a prick, I understand that it feels good to see a thread started on a subject and grow, so out of courtesy and respect to those who started this thread and the other I posted here as well. Its redundent, yes, but at the same time you cannot label us conservatives (differenent than a republican politician) as uncaring, thoughtless jerks. I post here so that I can pump up the number of the thread. This is boost without being a dick, without being a prick. I added to somebodys thread and as the numbers go so does thier happiness level.

My thread on the other hand will contain the sweet, heavenly, dew, of pure fact.

Seriously, you can help, its a big topic, I see many critics out there that wrote great papers, I have not even looked at one yet, everything I am posting I found on my own.

Its a huge subject. Just the answer to how many trucks does it take to transport a windmill from its point of origin to its destination, the answer to that question is totally relevant and at this time unanswered in my own research as well as on this site, maybe its buried in a thread, in a link, my ability to see things as they are tell me no.

So I will concentrate on my post, I will post in here as long as thier is interest, I got to hand it to you though. You are showing interest and you are keeping me sniffing.

This is not about me proving anyone wrong, this is not about the number of posts in my thread although numbers are a great thing, this really is about the truth and the political philosophical impact this has on our lives.

I do need to concentrate on fiberglass for now, its a huge topic and the biggest componet of wind turbine. I am addressing that in parts in my thread. If people lose interest so be it. I think its more fun than just nipping at peoples asses like a stray dog, I can only do so much of that and take so much.

specific cells, off the top of my head, if they are cells I think there is only one. Photllativ, smae as in the computers but use light, I most likely misspelled the name.

Another type of plant they are building in Arizona is, and this is not a technical name, but the worldls largest solar plant being built by a spanish plant in arizona is a solar/water plant, heat water, use steam, I would get technical and will if my other thread goes that far but I am positive just the fiberglass debate in regards to windmill put the nail in the coffin so to speak.

see ya

 

[catzmeow]

Solar farms are dirty, they take massive amounts of electrical energy to produce, all the pollution is pretty much unregulated in china, so every time we buy a solar panel we will be dumping our waste in china, they are the biggest manufacturers of everything as you already know. I am sure any company that is successful here will move thier operation to china. Either way they take up too much space, even the rich that have solar panels on thier roofs are still tied to the grid to meet thier demands. You must look at cost as well.

Everything we buy from China leaves a massive pollution/carbon footprint. Give me a fucking break.

The solution to this is to HOLD CHINA TO THE SAME ENVIRONMENTAL STANDARDS, not abandon a valid replacement for fossil fuels.

If your perspective represents that of "corporate energy," that's fucking sad.

Interestingly enough, my boyfriend and my brother were both nukes in the navy. BOTH are huge fans of solar, and both still work in the power industry. Color me unimpressed by your supposed expertise.