Fuck the Confederacy

[JQPublic1]

You guys lost all the way back in 1865. Get the fuck over it.

Yes, the Democrats lost back then. They also lost in 2016.

Get over it already.

Confederates were not democrats idiot. They weren't even American citizens.

 

[JQPublic1]

Let's all blame the Confederacy for having slavery for 4 years, and forget that the USA had slavery for 89 years.

Cute..real cute...

 

[Pogo]

You guys lost all the way back in 1865. Get the fuck over it.

Yes, the Democrats lost back then. They also lost in 2016.

Get over it already.

Confederates were not democrats idiot. They weren't even American citizens.

In fact the Confederacy had no political parties at all. Deliberately.

 

[fncceo]

Fuck the Confederacy

Tempting ...

...but wouldn't I need a time machine?

 

[impuretrash]

It's not even safe to air reruns of The Dukes of Hazard because of this stupid hysteria about inanimate objects.

 

[Correll]

There are many Confederate Flags with many meanings. It's not ALL about the coloreds. These flags are representing States Rights and Religious Freedom. Fighting terrorism since 1861.

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

The past was a harsher time. Our ancestors built US a very nice nation, arguably the best ever.

One of the important steps in that was healing the wounds of that war.

This nation's history after the civil war could have been one of continued strife and hatred and violence.

Instead it was put behind US.a

Now, many are trying to dig it up again.

Actually the digging-up-again started a little over a hundred years ago with the Lost Cause Movement, the "Clansman" novel, the "Birth of a Nation" film and the Daughters of the Confederacy which all worked tirelessly to rewrite that infamous history, the latter by placing hundreds (not dozens-- hundreds) of statues, monuments and plaques in prominent public places and in front of government buildings nationwide to make them appear 'legitimate'. These would be the exact same statues and monuments being reviewed for removal from said prominent public places where they have stood as propaganda transmitters for between 90 and 110 years, which is why they consistently date from that exact era.

Up until then it was put behind us. But a certain faction decided they didn't like where it had been put, and went to great lengths to redefine it.

....

THe Lost Cause was long part of an America where the South was a loyal and integral part of America.


Regional pride does not contradict pride in the whole, ie America.


THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

 

[Pogo]

There are many Confederate Flags with many meanings. It's not ALL about the coloreds. These flags are representing States Rights and Religious Freedom. Fighting terrorism since 1861.

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

The past was a harsher time. Our ancestors built US a very nice nation, arguably the best ever.

One of the important steps in that was healing the wounds of that war.

This nation's history after the civil war could have been one of continued strife and hatred and violence.

Instead it was put behind US.a

Now, many are trying to dig it up again.

Actually the digging-up-again started a little over a hundred years ago with the Lost Cause Movement, the "Clansman" novel, the "Birth of a Nation" film and the Daughters of the Confederacy which all worked tirelessly to rewrite that infamous history, the latter by placing hundreds (not dozens-- hundreds) of statues, monuments and plaques in prominent public places and in front of government buildings nationwide to make them appear 'legitimate'. These would be the exact same statues and monuments being reviewed for removal from said prominent public places where they have stood as propaganda transmitters for between 90 and 110 years, which is why they consistently date from that exact era.

Up until then it was put behind us. But a certain faction decided they didn't like where it had been put, and went to great lengths to redefine it.

....

THe Lost Cause was long part of an America where the South was a loyal and integral part of America.


Regional pride does not contradict pride in the whole, ie America.


THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

The Lost Cause was a part of making excuses for a disastrous idiocy that devastated the South. Which is btw where I live. "The South" does not equal "the Confederacy". It was hardly a united front.

The Lost Cause was not the South -- the Lost Cause was a grand rationalization of a fatally flawed political stroke, a historical revisionism and as such, a Big Lie. It tried to rationalize intellectually the same bullshit that the Ku Klux Klan did physically. That's why the former considered the latter as heroes. They were after the same goal --- denialism of the outcome of the War and restoration of Status Past. In effect the Lost Cause and the vigilant Klan did the same thing; one used statues and monuments and novels and movies, the other used lynching and whipping and general intimidation. Two approaches, one goal.

That's also why the Lost Cause movement generated the novel "The Clansman", which became a play, which became a movie, which inspired the regeneration of the Klan, as well as simultaneously a spike in lynchings, a spate of Jim Crow laws, a slew of by far the worst race riots this country has ever suffered, segregated public facilities, blackface minstrel shows, etc etc etc. It was a grand brainwashing and for far too long, it worked. It's what Rosa Parks was defying when she refused to change her seat -- and that was four decades after the Lost Cause was peaking. It's what Branch Rickey was defying by playing Jackie Robinson, and that didn't happen until 1947.

There's nothing in that to be "proud" about but there's an abundance to fix, as we obviously haven't healed that wound yet. If we had, the act of finally removing these propaganda transmitters from public spaces would be met not with resistance but with indifference or at most a sigh of "it's about time". If we had, the alt-right/skinhead/Nazi losers wouldn't be gathering in places they don't live to beat black people with poles and run people over with cars. The first step is to admit we have a problem. We've done that, and not even all of us have admitted it, as you just confirmed. There's a long way yet to go.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

In a purely technical, legal, Constitutional context, there was no ‘confederacy’ – there was no ‘secession,’ no state ‘left the Union,’ no one was a ‘citizen’ of the ‘confederacy,’ everyone remained a citizen of the United States, North and South.

 

[Pogo]

In a purely technical, legal, Constitutional context, there was no ‘confederacy’ – there was no ‘secession,’ no state ‘left the Union,’ no one was a ‘citizen’ of the ‘confederacy,’ everyone remained a citizen of the United States, North and South.

I think technically they renounced that citizenship upon secession. That's why they had to be individually readmitted.

At least the entities of the states did. Whether that renunciation automatically applied to the citizenry by virtue of the state taking a controversial action is a much muddier question. West Virginia comes to mind, where a group of counties seceded from an already-seceded state (apparently a secession from a secession equals an unsecession). And not all of those counties wanted to secede from Virginia but Union troops were in place. Conversely a group of counties in East Tennessee wanted to do the same thing but there, Confederate troops predominated. As is always the case a gaggle of power-hungry politicians make the noises and stomp their feet and it's the people who get fucked and pay the price.

 

[Correll]

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

The past was a harsher time. Our ancestors built US a very nice nation, arguably the best ever.

One of the important steps in that was healing the wounds of that war.

This nation's history after the civil war could have been one of continued strife and hatred and violence.

Instead it was put behind US.a

Now, many are trying to dig it up again.

Actually the digging-up-again started a little over a hundred years ago with the Lost Cause Movement, the "Clansman" novel, the "Birth of a Nation" film and the Daughters of the Confederacy which all worked tirelessly to rewrite that infamous history, the latter by placing hundreds (not dozens-- hundreds) of statues, monuments and plaques in prominent public places and in front of government buildings nationwide to make them appear 'legitimate'. These would be the exact same statues and monuments being reviewed for removal from said prominent public places where they have stood as propaganda transmitters for between 90 and 110 years, which is why they consistently date from that exact era.

Up until then it was put behind us. But a certain faction decided they didn't like where it had been put, and went to great lengths to redefine it.

....

THe Lost Cause was long part of an America where the South was a loyal and integral part of America.


Regional pride does not contradict pride in the whole, ie America.


THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

The Lost Cause was a part of making excuses for a disastrous idiocy that devastated the South. Which is btw where I live. "The South" does not equal "the Confederacy". It was hardly a united front.

The Lost Cause was not the South -- the Lost Cause was a grand rationalization of a fatally flawed political stroke, a historical revisionism and as such, a Big Lie. It tried to rationalize intellectually the same bullshit that the Ku Klux Klan did physically. That's why the former considered the latter as heroes. They were after the same goal --- denialism of the outcome of the War and restoration of Status Past. In effect the Lost Cause and the vigilant Klan did the same thing; one used statues and monuments and novels and movies, the other used lynching and whipping and general intimidation. Two approaches, one goal.

"Restoration of the Status Past"? What the hell does THAT mean?

That's also why the Lost Cause movement generated the novel "The Clansman", which became a play, which became a movie, which inspired the regeneration of the Klan, as well as simultaneously a spike in lynchings, a spate of Jim Crow laws, a slew of by far the worst race riots this country has ever suffered, segregated public facilities, blackface minstrel shows, etc etc etc. It was a grand brainwashing and for far too long, it worked. It's what Rosa Parks was defying when she refused to change her seat -- and that was four decades after the Lost Cause was peaking. It's what Branch Rickey was defying by playing Jackie Robinson, and that didn't happen until 1947.

RIght. Because without Lost Cause there is no racism, and 40 years after the peak is a great indicator of cause and effect.


NOT.

There's nothing in that to be "proud" about but there's an abundance to fix, as we obviously haven't healed that wound yet. If we had, the act of finally removing these propaganda transmitters from public spaces would be met not with resistance but with indifference or at most a sigh of "it's about time". If we had, the alt-right/skinhead/Nazi losers wouldn't be gathering in places they don't live to beat black people with poles and run people over with cars. The first step is to admit we have a problem. We've done that, and not even all of us have admitted it, as you just confirmed. There's a long way yet to go.

The first step is to declare that we do NOT have a problem. That our heritage has good and bad and that denying a section of the population the right to be proud of their heritage is wrong.

 

[Pogo]

You know. We used to talk about those states rights that the South felt were being violated. The right for states to have their slaves returned to them when they ran away. The right to expand slavery to new territories. The right to re-open the slave trade.

We used to talk about the original meanings of that flag. About the fire eater who was an extreme confederate who made it. Who felt the Confederacy wasn't going far enough. That owning slaves wasn't just a political right but a God Given right to own the black man. Who felt that opening the slave trade again was the only way the country could move forward.

We used to talk about Robert E Lee, begging southerners with his wish that they would put the flag away, and the KKK and dixiecrats making it their calling card against the civil rights movement.

But we like erasing all these things that don't make us feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. We like removing the history of that 4 years that doesn't fit our agenda, burning the books, and rewriting what we can.

The past was a harsher time. Our ancestors built US a very nice nation, arguably the best ever.

One of the important steps in that was healing the wounds of that war.

This nation's history after the civil war could have been one of continued strife and hatred and violence.

Instead it was put behind US.a

Now, many are trying to dig it up again.

Actually the digging-up-again started a little over a hundred years ago with the Lost Cause Movement, the "Clansman" novel, the "Birth of a Nation" film and the Daughters of the Confederacy which all worked tirelessly to rewrite that infamous history, the latter by placing hundreds (not dozens-- hundreds) of statues, monuments and plaques in prominent public places and in front of government buildings nationwide to make them appear 'legitimate'. These would be the exact same statues and monuments being reviewed for removal from said prominent public places where they have stood as propaganda transmitters for between 90 and 110 years, which is why they consistently date from that exact era.

Up until then it was put behind us. But a certain faction decided they didn't like where it had been put, and went to great lengths to redefine it.

....

THe Lost Cause was long part of an America where the South was a loyal and integral part of America.


Regional pride does not contradict pride in the whole, ie America.


THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

The Lost Cause was a part of making excuses for a disastrous idiocy that devastated the South. Which is btw where I live. "The South" does not equal "the Confederacy". It was hardly a united front.

The Lost Cause was not the South -- the Lost Cause was a grand rationalization of a fatally flawed political stroke, a historical revisionism and as such, a Big Lie. It tried to rationalize intellectually the same bullshit that the Ku Klux Klan did physically. That's why the former considered the latter as heroes. They were after the same goal --- denialism of the outcome of the War and restoration of Status Past. In effect the Lost Cause and the vigilant Klan did the same thing; one used statues and monuments and novels and movies, the other used lynching and whipping and general intimidation. Two approaches, one goal.

"Restoration of the Status Past"? What the hell does THAT mean?

You know what "status quo" means -- right?

Well I just made up a new term. I even rendered it in English so it wouldn't fly over any heads. Except those who duck.

That's also why the Lost Cause movement generated the novel "The Clansman", which became a play, which became a movie, which inspired the regeneration of the Klan, as well as simultaneously a spike in lynchings, a spate of Jim Crow laws, a slew of by far the worst race riots this country has ever suffered, segregated public facilities, blackface minstrel shows, etc etc etc. It was a grand brainwashing and for far too long, it worked. It's what Rosa Parks was defying when she refused to change her seat -- and that was four decades after the Lost Cause was peaking. It's what Branch Rickey was defying by playing Jackie Robinson, and that didn't happen until 1947.

RIght. Because without Lost Cause there is no racism, and 40 years after the peak is a great indicator of cause and effect.


NOT.

Without Lost Cause, we leave those tensions that brought about Civil War behind. WITH it, we reverse course and go right back to it even though the War fought over it was lost. The equivalent of "yeah we lost the game 19-2 but we hit the ball harder, and here's why we're the better team despite the score".

So --- yes, right. The spike in lynchings and Jim Crow laws and race riots and minstrel shows and segregation and "Birth of a Nation" and the Klan all happening at the same time (and the same time as these monuments as well) does indeed demonstrate the effect, and the fact that it took until 1947 for baseball to readmit blacks (Robinson was not the first; he "broke the color line"-- critical difference) and until 1948 to desegregate the military and until 1954 for Brown v. Board of Education and until 1955 for Rosa Parks and until the 1960s for MLK et al --- sure as hell does demonstrate the lingering effect.

And the fact that your counterargument amounts to the single gainsay "Not" demonstrates it isn't one.

There's nothing in that to be "proud" about but there's an abundance to fix, as we obviously haven't healed that wound yet. If we had, the act of finally removing these propaganda transmitters from public spaces would be met not with resistance but with indifference or at most a sigh of "it's about time". If we had, the alt-white/skinhead/Nazi losers wouldn't be gathering in places they don't live to beat black people with poles and run people over with cars. The first step is to admit we have a problem. We've done that, and not even all of us have admitted it, as you just confirmed. There's a long way yet to go.

The first step is to declare that we do NOT have a problem. That our heritage has good and bad and that denying a section of the population the right to be proud of their heritage is wrong.

So you're saying the first step is to bury one's head in the sand, declare "these evil things never happened' and go la la la. Which sounds an awful lot like the "removing history" argument of the public-statue-apologists.

Can't have it both ways.....

 

[Pogo]

Oh and then there's this ---

THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

This contemporary wave started with Dylann Roof's massacre of innocent black people for the purpose of starting a "race war" while draping himself in Stars & Bars flags. That triggered it, and the first reaction was Nikki Haley and the South Carolina state legislature removing that flag from its state house. Which it had the authority to do. Many communities then started following suit examining their own public spaces, which, again, they too have the authority to do.

Now if you want to put Nikki Haley and the state legislature of South Carolina on the left, then I suggest you package and sell those mushrooms you're smoking.

--- or are you trying to back away now from the whole "the left are the racists" meme?

Again --- can't have it both ways.

 

[Correll]

The past was a harsher time. Our ancestors built US a very nice nation, arguably the best ever.

One of the important steps in that was healing the wounds of that war.

This nation's history after the civil war could have been one of continued strife and hatred and violence.

Instead it was put behind US.a

Now, many are trying to dig it up again.

Actually the digging-up-again started a little over a hundred years ago with the Lost Cause Movement, the "Clansman" novel, the "Birth of a Nation" film and the Daughters of the Confederacy which all worked tirelessly to rewrite that infamous history, the latter by placing hundreds (not dozens-- hundreds) of statues, monuments and plaques in prominent public places and in front of government buildings nationwide to make them appear 'legitimate'. These would be the exact same statues and monuments being reviewed for removal from said prominent public places where they have stood as propaganda transmitters for between 90 and 110 years, which is why they consistently date from that exact era.

Up until then it was put behind us. But a certain faction decided they didn't like where it had been put, and went to great lengths to redefine it.

....

THe Lost Cause was long part of an America where the South was a loyal and integral part of America.


Regional pride does not contradict pride in the whole, ie America.


THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

The Lost Cause was a part of making excuses for a disastrous idiocy that devastated the South. Which is btw where I live. "The South" does not equal "the Confederacy". It was hardly a united front.

The Lost Cause was not the South -- the Lost Cause was a grand rationalization of a fatally flawed political stroke, a historical revisionism and as such, a Big Lie. It tried to rationalize intellectually the same bullshit that the Ku Klux Klan did physically. That's why the former considered the latter as heroes. They were after the same goal --- denialism of the outcome of the War and restoration of Status Past. In effect the Lost Cause and the vigilant Klan did the same thing; one used statues and monuments and novels and movies, the other used lynching and whipping and general intimidation. Two approaches, one goal.

"Restoration of the Status Past"? What the hell does THAT mean?

You know what "status quo" means -- right?

Well I just made up a new term. I even rendered it in English so it wouldn't fly over any heads. Except those who duck.

Based on that it sounds like you are claiming that those southerns who are proud of their heritage want to restore slavery.

Which is incorrect.


Soooooo, is that what you meant?

That's also why the Lost Cause movement generated the novel "The Clansman", which became a play, which became a movie, which inspired the regeneration of the Klan, as well as simultaneously a spike in lynchings, a spate of Jim Crow laws, a slew of by far the worst race riots this country has ever suffered, segregated public facilities, blackface minstrel shows, etc etc etc. It was a grand brainwashing and for far too long, it worked. It's what Rosa Parks was defying when she refused to change her seat -- and that was four decades after the Lost Cause was peaking. It's what Branch Rickey was defying by playing Jackie Robinson, and that didn't happen until 1947.

RIght. Because without Lost Cause there is no racism, and 40 years after the peak is a great indicator of cause and effect.


NOT.

Without Lost Cause, we leave those tensions that brought about Civil War behind. WITH it, we reverse course and go right back to it even though the War fought over it was lost. The equivalent of "yeah we lost the game 19-2 but we hit the ball harder, and here's why we're the better team despite the score".
.....[/QUOTE]


No, with Lost Cause those tensions were long gone long ago.

What we have today is not caused by southerns who want to be proud of parts of their heritage, but by the assholes who find that offensive.

There's nothing in that to be "proud" about but there's an abundance to fix, as we obviously haven't healed that wound yet. If we had, the act of finally removing these propaganda transmitters from public spaces would be met not with resistance but with indifference or at most a sigh of "it's about time". If we had, the alt-white/skinhead/Nazi losers wouldn't be gathering in places they don't live to beat black people with poles and run people over with cars. The first step is to admit we have a problem. We've done that, and not even all of us have admitted it, as you just confirmed. There's a long way yet to go.

The first step is to declare that we do NOT have a problem. That our heritage has good and bad and that denying a section of the population the right to be proud of their heritage is wrong.

So you're saying the first step is to bury one's head in the sand, declare "these evil things never happened' and go la la la. Which sounds an awful lot like the "removing history" argument of the public-statue-apologists.

Can't have it both ways.....[/QUOTE]


"Our heritage has good and bad" does not translate to "these evil things never happened".

 

[Pogo]

Actually the digging-up-again started a little over a hundred years ago with the Lost Cause Movement, the "Clansman" novel, the "Birth of a Nation" film and the Daughters of the Confederacy which all worked tirelessly to rewrite that infamous history, the latter by placing hundreds (not dozens-- hundreds) of statues, monuments and plaques in prominent public places and in front of government buildings nationwide to make them appear 'legitimate'. These would be the exact same statues and monuments being reviewed for removal from said prominent public places where they have stood as propaganda transmitters for between 90 and 110 years, which is why they consistently date from that exact era.

Up until then it was put behind us. But a certain faction decided they didn't like where it had been put, and went to great lengths to redefine it.

....

THe Lost Cause was long part of an America where the South was a loyal and integral part of America.


Regional pride does not contradict pride in the whole, ie America.


THe Left's desire to have the South wallow in shame is what is tearing this nation apart and this started recently.

The Lost Cause was a part of making excuses for a disastrous idiocy that devastated the South. Which is btw where I live. "The South" does not equal "the Confederacy". It was hardly a united front.

The Lost Cause was not the South -- the Lost Cause was a grand rationalization of a fatally flawed political stroke, a historical revisionism and as such, a Big Lie. It tried to rationalize intellectually the same bullshit that the Ku Klux Klan did physically. That's why the former considered the latter as heroes. They were after the same goal --- denialism of the outcome of the War and restoration of Status Past. In effect the Lost Cause and the vigilant Klan did the same thing; one used statues and monuments and novels and movies, the other used lynching and whipping and general intimidation. Two approaches, one goal.

"Restoration of the Status Past"? What the hell does THAT mean?

You know what "status quo" means -- right?

Well I just made up a new term. I even rendered it in English so it wouldn't fly over any heads. Except those who duck.

Based on that it sounds like you are claiming that those southerns who are proud of their heritage want to restore slavery.

Which is incorrect.


Soooooo, is that what you meant?

That's also why the Lost Cause movement generated the novel "The Clansman", which became a play, which became a movie, which inspired the regeneration of the Klan, as well as simultaneously a spike in lynchings, a spate of Jim Crow laws, a slew of by far the worst race riots this country has ever suffered, segregated public facilities, blackface minstrel shows, etc etc etc. It was a grand brainwashing and for far too long, it worked. It's what Rosa Parks was defying when she refused to change her seat -- and that was four decades after the Lost Cause was peaking. It's what Branch Rickey was defying by playing Jackie Robinson, and that didn't happen until 1947.

RIght. Because without Lost Cause there is no racism, and 40 years after the peak is a great indicator of cause and effect.


NOT.

Without Lost Cause, we leave those tensions that brought about Civil War behind. WITH it, we reverse course and go right back to it even though the War fought over it was lost. The equivalent of "yeah we lost the game 19-2 but we hit the ball harder, and here's why we're the better team despite the score".
.....

No, with Lost Cause those tensions were long gone long ago.

What we have today is not caused by southerns who want to be proud of parts of their heritage, but by the assholes who find that offensive.

There's nothing in that to be "proud" about but there's an abundance to fix, as we obviously haven't healed that wound yet. If we had, the act of finally removing these propaganda transmitters from public spaces would be met not with resistance but with indifference or at most a sigh of "it's about time". If we had, the alt-white/skinhead/Nazi losers wouldn't be gathering in places they don't live to beat black people with poles and run people over with cars. The first step is to admit we have a problem. We've done that, and not even all of us have admitted it, as you just confirmed. There's a long way yet to go.

The first step is to declare that we do NOT have a problem. That our heritage has good and bad and that denying a section of the population the right to be proud of their heritage is wrong.

So you're saying the first step is to bury one's head in the sand, declare "these evil things never happened' and go la la la. Which sounds an awful lot like the "removing history" argument of the public-statue-apologists.

Can't have it both ways.....

"Our heritage has good and bad" does not translate to "these evil things never happened".[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

I can see you're trying desperately to shift from the reality of revisionist history to "heritage". So desperate that you're fucking up the quote nest.

Doesn't work. "Heritage" is culture and history is history.

As I keep saying --- you can't have it both ways.

 

[Correll]

The Lost Cause was a part of making excuses for a disastrous idiocy that devastated the South. Which is btw where I live. "The South" does not equal "the Confederacy". It was hardly a united front.

The Lost Cause was not the South -- the Lost Cause was a grand rationalization of a fatally flawed political stroke, a historical revisionism and as such, a Big Lie. It tried to rationalize intellectually the same bullshit that the Ku Klux Klan did physically. That's why the former considered the latter as heroes. They were after the same goal --- denialism of the outcome of the War and restoration of Status Past. In effect the Lost Cause and the vigilant Klan did the same thing; one used statues and monuments and novels and movies, the other used lynching and whipping and general intimidation. Two approaches, one goal.

"Restoration of the Status Past"? What the hell does THAT mean?

You know what "status quo" means -- right?

Well I just made up a new term. I even rendered it in English so it wouldn't fly over any heads. Except those who duck.

Based on that it sounds like you are claiming that those southerns who are proud of their heritage want to restore slavery.

Which is incorrect.


Soooooo, is that what you meant?

That's also why the Lost Cause movement generated the novel "The Clansman", which became a play, which became a movie, which inspired the regeneration of the Klan, as well as simultaneously a spike in lynchings, a spate of Jim Crow laws, a slew of by far the worst race riots this country has ever suffered, segregated public facilities, blackface minstrel shows, etc etc etc. It was a grand brainwashing and for far too long, it worked. It's what Rosa Parks was defying when she refused to change her seat -- and that was four decades after the Lost Cause was peaking. It's what Branch Rickey was defying by playing Jackie Robinson, and that didn't happen until 1947.

RIght. Because without Lost Cause there is no racism, and 40 years after the peak is a great indicator of cause and effect.


NOT.

Without Lost Cause, we leave those tensions that brought about Civil War behind. WITH it, we reverse course and go right back to it even though the War fought over it was lost. The equivalent of "yeah we lost the game 19-2 but we hit the ball harder, and here's why we're the better team despite the score".
.....

No, with Lost Cause those tensions were long gone long ago.

What we have today is not caused by southerns who want to be proud of parts of their heritage, but by the assholes who find that offensive.

There's nothing in that to be "proud" about but there's an abundance to fix, as we obviously haven't healed that wound yet. If we had, the act of finally removing these propaganda transmitters from public spaces would be met not with resistance but with indifference or at most a sigh of "it's about time". If we had, the alt-white/skinhead/Nazi losers wouldn't be gathering in places they don't live to beat black people with poles and run people over with cars. The first step is to admit we have a problem. We've done that, and not even all of us have admitted it, as you just confirmed. There's a long way yet to go.

The first step is to declare that we do NOT have a problem. That our heritage has good and bad and that denying a section of the population the right to be proud of their heritage is wrong.

So you're saying the first step is to bury one's head in the sand, declare "these evil things never happened' and go la la la. Which sounds an awful lot like the "removing history" argument of the public-statue-apologists.

Can't have it both ways.....

"Our heritage has good and bad" does not translate to "these evil things never happened".

[/QUOTE]

I can see you're trying desperately to shift from the reality of revisionist history to "heritage". So desperate that you're fucking up the quote nest.

Doesn't work. "Heritage" is culture and history is history.

As I keep saying --- you can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]


NOt interested in semantic games.


The US put the wounds of the Civil War behind US long ago, and the South having pride in their heritage was never a problem for that.

This current flap is not from those who want to be proud of their heritage but from those on the left that are offended by some one else being proud of their heritage.

 

[Pogo]

Once again you continue to fuck up the quote nest while desperately trying to change the subject to "heritage", a point I never brought up at all.

You're a loser.

 

[Correll]

Once again you continue to fuck up the quote nest while desperately trying to change the subject to "heritage", a point I never brought up at all.

You're a loser.

NOt interested in semantic games.


The US put the wounds of the Civil War behind US long ago, and the South having pride in their heritage was never a problem for that.

This current flap is not from those who want to be proud of their heritage but from those on the left that are offended by some one else being proud of their heritage.

 

[Humorme]

Once again you continue to fuck up the quote nest while desperately trying to change the subject to "heritage", a point I never brought up at all.

You're a loser.

NOt interested in semantic games.


The US put the wounds of the Civil War behind US long ago, and the South having pride in their heritage was never a problem for that.

This current flap is not from those who want to be proud of their heritage but from those on the left that are offended by some one else being proud of their heritage.

That is 100 percent accurate and honest.

Every day whites are offended by the left, but they do not make a religion out of pretending to be on the verge of a mental breakdown just because others celebrate events / people that offend the sensibilities of the whites.

I have done a number of threads here starting with the era and moving down to the present to show that there is a subtle form of genocide against the whites. It is a form of genocide that is about to culminate in civil disorder, none like has been witnessed in many, many years.

Case in point:

The recent effort to tear down monuments, statues and memorials is NOT limited to the Confederacy. Maryland took down a statue of Roger Taney, the Chief Supreme Court Justice that handed down the decision in the Dred Scott v Sanford case. In deciding that case, Wikipedia says this:

"Taney spent pages 407–421 of his decision chronicling the history of slave and negro law in the British colonies and American states to decide if federal law could recognize Scott as a citizen of any state within the meaning of Article III. "

Dred Scott v. Sandford - Wikipedia

And so, Taney did his job, declaring blacks could not become citizens under the laws. He did not legislate from the bench nor take sides. Still, his statue was removed on the idiotic pretext he was a racist.

And so, when this round of fighting has concluded, the liberals will be back saying the good old red, white and blue (that is NOT offending them now) will become the new symbol of racism as that was the flag flying over the White House when Taney delivered his ruling. When that symbol is gone, they will have but one symbol to destroy left... the whites themselves.

 

[miketx]

You guys lost all the way back in 1865. Get the fuck over it.

Cry babies never change. 150 years ago and they still cry and cry and cry.

 

[Mason Michaels]

For me the Confederate Flag always means treason