The Insanity Has Reached A Whole New Level

[dblack]

But this case that the OP posted is not an example of that ...

Maybe not. But would you support it if it was? Most on this thread would.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

You're being hysterical. But fear and hysteria are the name of the game in MAGA land.

That’s my Progressive imitation

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

That’s my Progressive imitation

.

I recognized that. Not surprised that they didn't.


.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

.

I recognized that. Not surprised that they didn't.


.

Hard to see yourself sometimes

 

[Seymour Flops]

Maybe not. But would you support it if it was? Most on this thread would.

If ICE just randomly put a detainer on a citizen for no reason?

I woyld not support that. Who said they would?

 

[dblack]

If ICE just randomly put a detainer on a citizen for no reason?

No. If they had a reason, but didn't follow due process. If they used Trump's "emergency" declaration as a way to get around Constitutional limits on their power.

 

[Seymour Flops]

No. If they had a reason, but didn't follow due process. If they used Trump's "emergency" declaration as a way to get around Constitutional limits on their power.

It depends on what you mean by "due process." I think you may be using that term very loosely.

He had already been arrested for whatever misdemeanor he allegedly committed at the time his friend was pulled over while he was a passenger in the car. The detainer was basically a request/demand to hold him to be arrested again, this time by ice.

There was no requirement that he have a full jury trial before he was arrested for the misdemeanor. There is also no requirement that he have a full jury trial before ice request that he be held for them.

 

[dblack]

It depends on what you mean by "due process." I think you may be using that term very loosely.

He had already been arrested for whatever misdemeanor he allegedly committed at the time his friend was pulled over while he was a passenger in the car. The detainer was basically a request/demand to hold him to be arrested again, this time by ice.

For what crime?

Regardless, again, it's pointless to debate the particulars of this case since none of us know the facts. That's why we focus on general, hypothetical questions. Should ICE have extra-constitutional power to repel the hoards of wetbacks invading our border? Or should they have to follow the same rules as any other law enforcement agency?

This is, essentially, the same debate that went on after 9/11. Some people, when sufficiently frightened, will give up their liberty for a promise of protection. And if you can convinced them there are dragons at the gate, you own them.

 

[Seymour Flops]

For what crime?

The misdemeanor he was arrested for during the traffic stop? I don't know. That's the kind of detail these breathless stories of Trump evil-doing carefully leave out.

Regardless, again, It's pointless to debate the particulars of this case since none of us know the facts. That's why we focus on general, hypothetical questions.

Yes, perhaps the OP should have opened with a hypothetical, instead of touting this particular case as "a new level" of whatever.

Should ICE have extra-constitutional power to repel the hoards of wetbacks invading our border? Or should they have to follow the same rules as any other law enforcement agency?

They should have powers (which would not be "extra-constitutional") to use the law on expedited removal. Biden, Obama, and Bush all allowed immigration officials to use expedited removal and bragged about it, with narry a peep from "libertarians" on this board. Suddenly when Trump starts enforcing the border they discover their philosophical opposition to borders.

ICE should be able to arrest and detain lawbreakers prior to a full jury trial, which happens in nearly every criminal case, even if the defendant's ancestors came over on the Mayflower and married other ancestors who crossed the Berring Straight with the first Americans.

But, that is due process. Due process means the process that is due in a given situation, not everyone gets a jury trial, or they cannot even be approached by law enforcement.

This is, essentially, the same debate that went on after 9/11. Some people, when sufficiently frightened, will give up their liberty for a promise of protection. And if you can convinced them there are dragons at the gate, you own them.

I agree with that as a principle. I disagree with your applying that principal as you imply that it should be (but do not state outright) to illegal aliens who go on to commit more crimes after illegal entry into the country.

Illegal immigration is a danger, not only because of the crime, but also because of the strain on our social services, schools, housing market, and medical care. That's true under all recent presidents. But under Biden, the danger rose to the level of a crises.

Half of the problem is solved for the moment, by illegals simply realizing this is not a good time to cross illegally as it was just six months ago. The other half will take much longer. Biden created a huge mess, and it will take time to solve it.

 

[Seymour Flops]

"Due Process" has become the new TDS catch phrase that means nothing more to those using it that way than "I hate Trump."

 

[MarathonMike]

No, Kilmar Garcia didn't blow up in anyone's face. He was kidnapped by law enforcement, never charged with a crime or investigated, and railroaded by Trump's hispanic hate mongers.

This case involves a legal US citizen.

And still, because he is brown, Trump losers all attack him and ignore the facts, again.

Trump and ICE are playing to your bigotry.

And you can't get enough of it.

Meanwhile, in plain sight, Trump pushes his authority. In this case, the claim is the right to round up US Citizens and hold them in prison with no charge, investigation or due process.

That is facism, regardless of the color of the victim. Something Trump nation can's see past.

Trump nation doesn't want to talk about its open support of these facist tactics either.

A Democrat stooge is born every minute, here's another one.

 

[dblack]

"Due Process" has become the new TDS catch phrase that means nothing more to those using it that way than "I hate Trump."

Don't flatter yourself, nor your dear leader. I've been arguing with authoritarians for forty years - long before Trump's crazy train. And it's always the same excuses, the same fear mongering.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Don't flatter yourself, nor your dear leader. I've been arguing with authoritarians for forty years - long before Trump's crazy train. And it's always the same excuses, the same fear mongering.

So, you literally believe that deporting illegal aliens is authoritarian fear mongering.

 

[dblack]

So, you literally believe that deporting illegal aliens is authoritarian fear mongering.

Nope. Never said that.

 

[BluesLegend]

An America citizen, born in the USA, is being held in detention as an "unauthorized alien" just because he has an Hispanic name. He was pulled over by a Florida state trooper and the ignorant bigot decided the guy is an illegal.

Now, before you MAGAs say he should not have violated the traffic laws, which would mean fuck-all anyway, the guy was a PASSENGER in the vehicle.

And it gets worse.

His mother was not allowed to visit him in jail.

It gets even worse.

A county judge examined the man's birth certificate, validated it, and he STILL can't be released from jail because ICE has taken jurisdiction and they won't release him.


Welcome to TrumpWorld.

U.S.-born man held for ICE under Florida's new anti-immigration law • Florida Phoenix

Juan Carlos Lopez-Gomez, a 20-year-old U.S. citizen, was being held in the Leon County Jail Thursday, charged with illegally entering Florida as an “unauthorized alien” — even as a supporter waved his U.S. birth certificate in court. A Florida Highway Patrol trooper arrested Lopez-Gomez after a...

floridaphoenix.com

Christ what have you gotten the vapors about this time? Hmmm some traffic cop made a mistake, well then impeach Trump and I right. Come here snowflake now just relax.

 

[Lesh]

No, Kilmar Garcia didn't blow up in anyone's face. He was kidnapped by law enforcement, never charged with a crime or investigated, and railroaded by Trump's hispanic hate mongers.

This case involves a legal US citizen.

And still, because he is brown, Trump losers all attack him and ignore the facts, again.

Trump and ICE are playing to your bigotry.

And you can't get enough of it.

Meanwhile, in plain sight, Trump pushes his authority. In this case, the claim is the right to round up US Citizens and hold them in prison with no charge, investigation or due process.

That is facism, regardless of the color of the victim. Something Trump nation can's see past.

Trump nation doesn't want to talk about its open support of these facist tactics either.

This shit is happening more and more

 

[Lesh]

If ICE just randomly put a detainer on a citizen for no reason?

I woyld not support that. Who said they would?

They fucking DID

 

[scruffy]

This shit is happening more and more

Better get used to it.

Only 500,000 more to go.

 

[Mac1958]

No. If they had a reason, but didn't follow due process. If they used Trump's "emergency" declaration as a way to get around Constitutional limits on their power.

They'll also support the El Salvadorian gulags for "home growns" Trump says is planned.

I can't believe I just wrote that.

I have no doubt now -- Trump's people will try to get their hands in the electoral process.

 

[Correll]

What, you can't read?

An American citizen is in jail just because he has a Hispanic last name.

Welcome to MAGA World.

I read what you claimed. But that is not really... relevant very often.


So, like I said, nice day.