Freedom wins...big government loses...Boeing Bill passes

[edjax1952]

Still waiting to hear what the new punishment is for companies that break the law.

DontBeStupid, don't be stupid. No new punishments are needed. No punishments were taken away. What broken law are you talking about? The only action taken was to explicitly forbid the NLRB from having the (new and made up as they go along) authority to shut down a business or require it to relocate.

Do you remember recently that the Supreme Court had to instruct the NLRB that it could not require church schools to allow unions in to regulate their employees. The NLRB is stretching the boundries of their authority whenever they get the chance.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Democratic Senate is not even going to consider this bill.

It is as good as dead.

 

[Jarhead]

Whose freedom? I thought Americans had a right to fight injustice, did something change? Corporate propaganda has created the greatest number of anti American freedom righties ever, that someone could cheer this loss of freedom as freedom is insane.

"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy' [see also Democracy after Citizens United | MIT World ]


"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Amazon.com: Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan (9780393059304): Kim Phillips-Fein: Books

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. They are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

Please explain who lost freedom here.

I bet you will struggle.

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

 

[Conservative]

Whose freedom? I thought Americans had a right to fight injustice, did something change? Corporate propaganda has created the greatest number of anti American freedom righties ever, that someone could cheer this loss of freedom as freedom is insane.

"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy' [see also Democracy after Citizens United | MIT World ]


"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Amazon.com: Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan (9780393059304): Kim Phillips-Fein: Books

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. They are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

Please explain who lost freedom here.

I bet you will struggle.

Employees did.

why do you feel the employees in one location (a union location) were entitled to more jobs at that location? Boeing built a new factory where they wanted to, and STILL managed to increase the total number of jobs in the first location.

 

[Conservative]

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. They are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

Please explain who lost freedom here.

I bet you will struggle.

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

the union lost their freedom to collect the extra dues.

 

[Polk]

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. They are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

Please explain who lost freedom here.

I bet you will struggle.

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

 

[Conservative]

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

so, all businesses should be unionized, is that what you're saying?

 

[Jarhead]

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

the union lost their freedom to collect the extra dues.

So let me get this straight.

If a client of mine opts to give business to my competitor, it is the ideology of the left that I have the right to complain and consider it a loss of my freedom that a company made a business decision they deemed to be in their best interest?

Wow...and they say conservatism is evil?

 

[Salt Jones]

this is great. Boeing south carolina has to send all their people to other non-union boeing sites to by retrained, even if they were certified at their job prior to coming to boeing. This is unheard of. Some of the OJT is 1600 hours and you only do it once in your career. I know a guy who has 20 years experience who got hired at Boeing SC and had to redo all his OJT. All this is being run by boeing seattle.

 

[Jarhead]

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

uh...excuse me?

Even you said it...

" They're free to decide to sign a contract"

which means

they are also free to NOT sign it.

So what freedom was lost?

 

[Conservative]

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

the union lost their freedom to collect the extra dues.

So let me get this straight.

If a client of mine opts to give business to my competitor, it is the ideology of the left that I have the right to complain and consider it a loss of my freedom that a company made a business decision they deemed to be in their best interest?

Wow...and they say conservatism is evil?

apparently so.

 

[uscitizen]

The bill has also passed the Senate?

 

[Polk]

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

so, all businesses should be unionized, is that what you're saying?

No, but I am saying that in most industries, outcomes would be better from the perspective of workers if firms were unionized. You're certainly free to argue that we should care more about the perspective of businesses than workers, but it's not a free lunch.

 

[daveman]

Whose freedom? I thought Americans had a right to fight injustice, did something change? Corporate propaganda has created the greatest number of anti American freedom righties ever, that someone could cheer this loss of freedom as freedom is insane.

"Corporate propaganda directed outwards, that is, to the public at large, has two main objectives: to identify the free enterprise system in popular consciousness with every cherished value, and to identify interventionist governments and strong unions (the only agencies capable of checking a complete domination of society by corporations) with tyranny, oppression and even subversion. The techniques used to achieve these results are variously called 'public relations', 'corporate communications' and 'economic education'." Alex Carey 'Taking the Risk out of Democracy' [see also Democracy after Citizens United | MIT World ]


"Historian Phillips-Fein traces the hidden history of the Reagan revolution to a coterie of business executives, including General Electric official and Reagan mentor Lemuel Boulware, who saw labor unions, government regulation, high taxes and welfare spending as dire threats to their profits and power. From the 1930s onward, the author argues, they provided the money, organization and fervor for a decades-long war against New Deal liberalism—funding campaigns, think tanks, magazines and lobbying groups, and indoctrinating employees in the virtues of unfettered capitalism." Amazon.com: Invisible Hands: The Making of the Conservative Movement from the New Deal to Reagan (9780393059304): Kim Phillips-Fein: Books

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. They are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

Please explain who lost freedom here.

I bet you will struggle.

Employees did.

You misspelled "unions".

 

[daveman]

Democratic Senate is not even going to consider this bill.

It is as good as dead.

...proving Democrats don't give a shit about putting people to work.

 

[Salt Jones]

The bill has also passed the Senate?

No, but the right has revised the whole procedure for making laws. All a bill has to do is pass the House and it's law.

 

[Conservative]

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

so, all businesses should be unionized, is that what you're saying?

No, but I am saying that in most industries, outcomes would be better from the perspective of workers if firms were unionized. You're certainly free to argue that we should care more about the perspective of businesses than workers, but it's not a free lunch.

then why is union membership at an all time low, and dropping?

 

[daveman]

Employees did.

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

Horseshit.

 

[Polk]

I will say it again....

the employees are free to decide if they wish to relcoate and still work for them. The employees are free to decide if they still wish to work for them without a union. The company is free to decide where it will operate. The vendors are free to decide if they still wish to supply them. The Airlines are still free to decide if they wish to purchase their products.

So who lost their freedoms?

The employees did. They're free to decide to sign a contract in which they have no negotiating power. That's not free in any meaningful sense of the word.

uh...excuse me?

Even you said it...

" They're free to decide to sign a contract"

which means

they are also free to NOT sign it.

So what freedom was lost?

Being able to refuse to sign the contract doesn't mean the contract isn't coercive. If we're trapped in the desert and I have water, selling it to you on the condition that I get everything you own would still be coercive, even though you'd have the freedom to refuse it and die.

 

[Polk]

so, all businesses should be unionized, is that what you're saying?

No, but I am saying that in most industries, outcomes would be better from the perspective of workers if firms were unionized. You're certainly free to argue that we should care more about the perspective of businesses than workers, but it's not a free lunch.

then why is union membership at an all time low, and dropping?

Because most states have effectively banned unions.