Freedom wins...big government loses...Boeing Bill passes

[bripat9643]

They haven't broken any laws.

Ya see, the unions and their dupe members want government to dictate how and where a business does business.......That's communism 101......And you deny having communist leanings?

Give me a fuckin' break!

All union thugs are fundamentally communists in their economic thinking. Marx is the source for the only theories that justify compulsory unionism, so what else could they be?

 

[daveman]

How many times do a mob of non union workers beat up union members?

Every time they're hired by the company to do so. And that doesn't include the cops or the National Guard.

Really? You have proof of non-union workers attacking union members?

I'd like to see that. Credible sources, please, not union propaganda.

 

[bripat9643]

How many times do a mob of non union workers beat up union members?

Every time they're hired by the company to do so. And that doesn't include the cops or the National Guard.

It's never happened. Security guards are not going to break the law and get themselves arrested and their employer sued. Beating people up is a privilege reserved entirely for union thugs.

 

[Dragon]

When was the last time strike breakers were hired?

Good question. Let me see if I can find out.

Hmm, hard to find a definitive answer quickly, but I can't find any reference to them after the 1930s. This suggests to me that the practice faded out after the National Labor Relations Act gave legal protection to the rights of workers to engage in union activity and so made such things illegal.

A related question, then, is how quickly such practices would resume if the NLRB lost its power to enforce the law.

 

[bripat9643]

It is a doubled edge sword as it also increases inflation...................................

The same period of time that saw maximum union strength and lowest unemployment and highest real wages across the board also saw very low inflation.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Unions weren't the cause of the prosperity. They just cashed in on it. Prosperity resulted from the fact that the rest of the industrialized world had been bombed into the stone aged. The US was the only place people had to go to get manufactured products.

 

[Full-Auto]

When was the last time strike breakers were hired?

Good question. Let me see if I can find out.

Hmm, hard to find a definitive answer quickly, but I can't find any reference to them after the 1930s. This suggests to me that the practice faded out after the National Labor Relations Act gave legal protection to the rights of workers to engage in union activity and so made such things illegal.

A related question, then, is how quickly such practices would resume if the NLRB lost its power to enforce the law.

The laws on the books dont go away. But these phoney suits do.

Again I will ask. How can the union show harm if employment increased?

 

[Wicked Jester]

It is a doubled edge sword as it also increases inflation...................................

The same period of time that saw maximum union strength and lowest unemployment and highest real wages across the board also saw very low inflation.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Unions weren't the cause of the prosperity. They just cashed in on it. Prosperity resulted from the fact that the rest of the industrialized world had been bombed into the stone aged. The US was the only place people had to go to get manufactured products.

And that is also where those countries came back with a vengeance......They fully understood as they rebuilt, that they would have to compete with the big dogs (the US), and not come back pissing like puppies. They fully understood they had to do it more efficiently, effectively, and offer a better product......And that is one of the reasons why we are now getting our asses kicked.

This country needs to get that same dogged determination to be the best at everything we manufacture.....Doing that will require taking the hands off the necks of business. And that includes taking these unions to task at every turn.....No more of this bullshit that unions can hold business hostage through threat of strike or violence.

 

[Dragon]

It's never happened. Security guards are not going to break the law and get themselves arrested and their employer sued. Beating people up is a privilege reserved entirely for union thugs.

Oh, puh-leeze.

An Eclectic List of Events in U.S. Labor History

July 1851 - Two railroad strikers were shot dead and others injured by the state militia in Portgage, New York.

14 July 1877 - A general strike halted the movement of U.S. railroads. In the following days, strike riots spread across the United States. The next week, federal troops were called out to force an end to the nationwide strike. At the "Battle of the Viaduct" in Chicago, federal troops (recently returned from an Indian massacre) killed 30 workers and wounded over 100.

23 November 1877 - The Thibodaux Massacre. The Louisiana Militia, aided by bands of "prominent citizens," shot at least 35 unarmed black sugar workers striking to gain a dollar-per-day wage, and lynched two strike leaders.

6 July 1892 - The Homestead Strike. Pinkerton Guards, trying to pave the way for the introduction of scabs, opened fire on striking Carnegie mill steel- workers in Homestead, Pennsylvania. In the ensuing battle, three Pinkertons surrendered; then, unarmed, they were set upon and beaten by a mob of townspeople, most of them women. Seven guards and eleven strikers and spectators were shot to death.

1894 - Federal troops killed 34 American Railway Union members in the Chicago area attempting to break a strike, led by Eugene Debs, against the Pullman Company. Debs and several others were imprisoned for violating injunctions, causing disintegration of the union.

10 Sep 1897 - 19 unarmed striking coal miners and mine workers were killed and 36 wounded by a posse organized by the Luzerne County sherif for refusing to disperse near Lattimer, Pennsylvania. The strikers, most of whom were shot in the back, were originally brought in as strike-breakers, but later organized themselves.

12 Oct 1902 - Fourteen miners were killed and 22 wounded by scabherders at Pana, Illinois.

8 June 1904 - A battle between the Colorado Militia and striking miners at Dunnville ended with six union members dead and 15 taken prisoner. Seventy-nine of the strikers were deported to Kansas two days later.

24 Feb 1912 - Women and children were beaten by police during a textile strike in Lawrence, Massachusetts.

20 Apr 1914 - The "Ludlow Massacre." In an attempt to persuade strikers at Colorado's Ludlow Mine Field to return to work, company "guards," engaged by John D. Rockefeller, Jr. and other mine operators and sworn into the State Militia just for the occasion, attacked a union tent camp with machine guns, then set it afire. Five men, two women and 12 children died as a result.

13 Nov 1914 - A Western Federation of Miners strike is crushed by the militia in Butte, Montana.

19 Aug 1916 - Strikebreakers hired by the Everett Mills owner Neil Jamison attacked and beat picketing strikers in Everett, Washington. Local police watched and refused to intervene, claiming that the waterfront where the incident took place was Federal land and therefore outside their jurisdiction.

12 Jul 1917 - After seizing the local Western Union telegraph office in order to cut off outside communication, several thousand armed vigilantes forced 1,185 men in Bisbee, Arizona into manure-laden boxcars and "deported" them to the New Mexico desert. The action was precipitated by a strike when workers' demands (including improvements to safety and working conditions at the local copper mines, an end to discrimination against labor organizations and unequal treatment of foreign and minority workers, and the institution of a fair wage system) went unmet. The "deportation" was organized by Sheriff Harry Wheeler. The incident was investigated months later by a Federal Mediation Commission set up by President Woodrow Wilson; the Commission found that no federal law applied, and referred the case to the State of Arizona, which failed to take any action, citing patriotism and support for the war as justification for the vigilantes' action.

1 Aug 1917 - IWW organizer Frank Little was lynched in Butte, Montana.

27 Jul 1918 - United Mine Workers organizer Ginger Goodwin was shot by a hired private policeman outside Cumberland, British Columbia.

26 Aug 1919 - United Mine Worker organizer Fannie Sellins was gunned down by company guards in Brackenridge, Pennsylvania.

19 May 1920 - The Battle of Matewan. Despite efforts by police chief (and former miner) Sid Hatfield and Mayor C. Testerman to protect miners from interference in their union drive in Matewan, West Virginia, Baldwin-Felts detectives hired by the local mining company and thirteen of the company's managers arrived to evict miners and their families from the Stone Mountain Mine camp. A gun battle ensued, resulting in the deaths of 7 detectives, Mayor Testerman, and 2 miners.

21 Nov 1927 - Picketing miners were massacred in Columbine, Colorado.

4 May 1931 - Gun-toting vigilantes attack striking miners in Harlan County, Kentucky.

10 Oct 1933 - 18,000 cotton workers went on strikein Pixley, California. Four were killed before a pay-hike was finally won.

This kind of thing used to happen ALL THE TIME. The only thing that prevents it now is that it has been made illegal by the very law founding the government agency that this bill, being discussed in this thread, would make toothless.

Really, before you proclaim something like that so loudly, I would recommend you learn something about what you're talking about. You risk embarrassing yourself badly, as you just did.

 

[daveman]

How many times do a mob of non union workers beat up union members?

Every time they're hired by the company to do so. And that doesn't include the cops or the National Guard.

Really? You have proof of non-union workers attacking union members?

I'd like to see that. Credible sources, please, not union propaganda.

Yoo hoo! You forgot one!

 

[Dragon]

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. Unions weren't the cause of the prosperity. They just cashed in on it. Prosperity resulted from the fact that the rest of the industrialized world had been bombed into the stone aged. The US was the only place people had to go to get manufactured products.

Nope.

See, you don't even believe that "bombed into the stone age" crap yourself in any other context except this one, which you find convenient. The logic it rests on is "beggar-thy-neighbor," which is also the same justification for mercantilism and blanket protectionism. But I'll bet you don't believe in mercantilism, do you? I bet you think the Smoot-Hawley Act was a bad idea, don't you?

Besides which, our postwar prosperity lasted until the mid 1970s, while Europe and Japan had fully recovered by the end of the 1950s. We made money off trade with our former allies and enemies. They didn't hurt us.

Another problem with this reasoning is that if people can't sell us anything they can't buy anything from us, either. We sell things to our competitors; we don't sell to impoverished peoples who have no wealth to trade.

No, it was the labor-friendly set of rules put in place during the Great Depression, and unions were a big part of that.

 

[Dragon]

Yoo hoo! You forgot one!

(Shrug.) No problem.

American Experience | The Rockefellers | Special Features | The Ludlow Massacre

Thibodaux Massacre - Encyclopedia of Louisiana

The Homestead Strike

Is that enough to illustrate that the claim it "never happens" is ignorant bullshit?

 

[Ernie S.]

This is good news.

Harry Reid and Obama are more interested in keeping unions happy then they are in creating jobs.

It will never come to a vote in the Senate as long as the Dems control it.

Ahh yes keep the unions happy. Increase the number of members. Increase the dues they collect so they can increase their donations to Democrat candidates.

 

[daveman]

Yoo hoo! You forgot one!

(Shrug.) No problem.

American Experience | The Rockefellers | Special Features | The Ludlow Massacre

Thibodaux Massacre - Encyclopedia of Louisiana

The Homestead Strike

Is that enough to illustrate that the claim it "never happens" is ignorant bullshit?

1914.

1897.

1892.



Got anything that's not a century old? And are you really using those as justification for union violence today?

 

[Intense]

Yoo hoo! You forgot one!

(Shrug.) No problem.

American Experience | The Rockefellers | Special Features | The Ludlow Massacre

Thibodaux Massacre - Encyclopedia of Louisiana

The Homestead Strike

Is that enough to illustrate that the claim it "never happens" is ignorant bullshit?

How about something more current Sparky. Let's try to stick with this Century. You do that, and we won't bring up the Mass Graves.

 

[daveman]

This is good news.

Harry Reid and Obama are more interested in keeping unions happy then they are in creating jobs.

It will never come to a vote in the Senate as long as the Dems control it.

Ahh yes keep the unions happy. Increase the number of members. Increase the dues they collect so they can increase their donations to Democrat candidates.

Unions have become what they were created to oppose:

Organizations that exploit workers for money.

 

[Dragon]

How about something more current Sparky.

That won't be possible unless this bill to emasculate the NLRB actually becomes law. It hasn't happened that I know of since the government started protecting workers in the mid 1930s.

 

[Dragon]

Got anything that's not a century old?

As I said, the law that created the NLRB, which this bill is designed to emasculate, made that sort of thing illegal. As long as this bill hasn't become law, the NLRB still has the power to prevent it.

And are you really using those as justification for union violence today?

Show me where I have justified union violence, please.

EDIT: Although actually, if violence against workers were still the norm, yes, that would indeed justify union violence. It's a matter of self-defense.

 

[Ernie S.]

How many times do a mob of non union workers beat up union members?

Every time they're hired by the company to do so. And that doesn't include the cops or the National Guard.

Document one such case in the last, say 20 years.

 

[daveman]

Got anything that's not a century old?

As I said, the law that created the NLRB, which this bill is designed to emasculate, made that sort of thing illegal. As long as this bill hasn't become law, the NLRB still has the power to prevent it.

So that's the union propaganda, huh? "This bill will turn the clock back a hundred years!!"

Fear-monger much?

Man, you guys hate it that non-union workers might get a job, huh?

And are you really using those as justification for union violence today?

Show me where I have justified union violence, please.

EDIT: Although actually, if violence against workers were still the norm, yes, that would indeed justify union violence. It's a matter of self-defense.

So...you have no justification for the union violence that happens today.

 

[Ernie S.]

When was the last time strike breakers were hired?

Good question. Let me see if I can find out.

Hmm, hard to find a definitive answer quickly, but I can't find any reference to them after the 1930s. This suggests to me that the practice faded out after the National Labor Relations Act gave legal protection to the rights of workers to engage in union activity and so made such things illegal.

A related question, then, is how quickly such practices would resume if the NLRB lost its power to enforce the law.

Did that legal protection include the right to break kneecaps?
Re. your "related question":
It wouldn't become practice. busting kneecaps is illegal no matter who does it.