Free Will in the Afterlife

[GISMYS]

Yes we will know each other in eternity== Matthew 17:3 ►
Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus. MOSES AND ELIJAH had died and went to be with God hundreads of years before they returned to talk with jesus on earth. Believers will receive on rapture day new imortal bodies and a new sinless nature!!! PTL.

 

[Moonglow]

In Heaven can anyone talk to Jesus or will we need an appointment??

 

[Mr. H.]

But you misunderstand! I have no intention whatsoever of debunking Christianity. I am a Catholic myself, albeit one who believes doctrine should be determined by each individual's interpretation of scripture, not an institution.

Well what on earth does any of that have to do with your "conundrum" that we may be turned into mindless robots in heaven?

First of all, that idea is off any charts to any legitimate way of Christian thought. It's even insulting to God, IMO.

Now you tell me you are a Catholic but all Catholics should be able to determine what doctrines are true or should be followed based on their own feelings of right and wrong? Is that idea of yours God inspired or somehow deduced from Scripture?

What the Church tells me and what Scripture tells me is that fallible man is all too often in search of teachers who will tell them what their "itchy ears" so want to hear. IOW, man wants the easy way out and still be allowed into the kingdom. This is a sure anti-God way of looking at things, IMO.

Jesus establishes His Church in Matthew 16 and elsewhere and gives to thee "the keys of the kingdom" no less! He also says "whatsoever thou bind on earth shall be held bound in heaven." Can it be any more clear? Obey the Church, not your own personal wishes when the two conflict.

But is God not changeable? My philosophy is that many pagan religions were actually their interpretations of God as he appeared to them. If God appeared to ancient cultures differently based on how he wanted them to interpret him, wouldn't it stand to reason that God appears to us all uniquely based upon the interpretation we personally discover? Besides, I always interpreted the "Church" as not a reference to sects and divisions and establishments, but rather God's Kingdom. Jesus brings the final incarnation and update from God and thus establishes his "Church." As all of us are members of the body of Christ, we all are members of the church. And as a body has many parts and functions, so do our own interpretations of Scripture and how our personal faith impacts the Church.

As I understand it, God didn't make an appearance to any Pagan past or present.

God is the earth beneath the feet of Pagans. The moon in the sky, and the stars above.

Our bodies don't "have" souls, souls have human bodies.

As to free will in the afterlife - the soul inherently clings to its body after the body's death.

Yes, there are memories initially. And that is natural. The soul or spirit or, quite simply, the "energy" is used to being connected to the body. And that is why it lingers.

But eventually this "soul energy" dissipates and ultimately scatters becoming a part of the earth, the moon, and the stars above.

At that point, no, there are no more memories. Sorry to break it to you. But that is the nature of things.

 

[GISMYS]

It's possible for man to have free will in heaven and yet never sin. We have a new, divine nature in Christ. This nature cannot sin, just as Christ cannot sin. Even though Jesus could not sin, He was still free. Therefore, we can exist with free will in heaven and we will not sin. We know this is not an illogical idea, since no one argues that God has no free will, yet God cannot sin. So, it is possible for a being to exist, be truly free and not able to sin. We all sin in these flesh mortal bodies but at the rapture we believers will receiv a new imortal body not of flesh and blood and a new sinless nature. PTL.

 

[GISMYS]

Well what on earth does any of that have to do with your "conundrum" that we may be turned into mindless robots in heaven?

First of all, that idea is off any charts to any legitimate way of Christian thought. It's even insulting to God, IMO.

Now you tell me you are a Catholic but all Catholics should be able to determine what doctrines are true or should be followed based on their own feelings of right and wrong? Is that idea of yours God inspired or somehow deduced from Scripture?

What the Church tells me and what Scripture tells me is that fallible man is all too often in search of teachers who will tell them what their "itchy ears" so want to hear. IOW, man wants the easy way out and still be allowed into the kingdom. This is a sure anti-God way of looking at things, IMO.

Jesus establishes His Church in Matthew 16 and elsewhere and gives to thee "the keys of the kingdom" no less! He also says "whatsoever thou bind on earth shall be held bound in heaven." Can it be any more clear? Obey the Church, not your own personal wishes when the two conflict.

But is God not changeable? My philosophy is that many pagan religions were actually their interpretations of God as he appeared to them. If God appeared to ancient cultures differently based on how he wanted them to interpret him, wouldn't it stand to reason that God appears to us all uniquely based upon the interpretation we personally discover? Besides, I always interpreted the "Church" as not a reference to sects and divisions and establishments, but rather God's Kingdom. Jesus brings the final incarnation and update from God and thus establishes his "Church." As all of us are members of the body of Christ, we all are members of the church. And as a body has many parts and functions, so do our own interpretations of Scripture and how our personal faith impacts the Church.

As I understand it, God didn't make an appearance to any Pagan past or present.

God is the earth beneath the feet of Pagans. The moon in the sky, and the stars above.

Our bodies don't "have" souls, souls have human bodies.

As to free will in the afterlife - the soul inherently clings to its body after the body's death.

Yes, there are memories initially. And that is natural. The soul or spirit or, quite simply, the "energy" is used to being connected to the body. And that is why it lingers.

But eventually this "soul energy" dissipates and ultimately scatters becoming a part of the earth, the moon, and the stars above.

At that point, no, there are no more memories. Sorry to break it to you. But that is the nature of things.

Pagan gods and false religions are all demon inspired trash from hell!!!! WISE UP!!

 

[Mr. H.]

But is God not changeable? My philosophy is that many pagan religions were actually their interpretations of God as he appeared to them. If God appeared to ancient cultures differently based on how he wanted them to interpret him, wouldn't it stand to reason that God appears to us all uniquely based upon the interpretation we personally discover? Besides, I always interpreted the "Church" as not a reference to sects and divisions and establishments, but rather God's Kingdom. Jesus brings the final incarnation and update from God and thus establishes his "Church." As all of us are members of the body of Christ, we all are members of the church. And as a body has many parts and functions, so do our own interpretations of Scripture and how our personal faith impacts the Church.

As I understand it, God didn't make an appearance to any Pagan past or present.

God is the earth beneath the feet of Pagans. The moon in the sky, and the stars above.

Our bodies don't "have" souls, souls have human bodies.

As to free will in the afterlife - the soul inherently clings to its body after the body's death.

Yes, there are memories initially. And that is natural. The soul or spirit or, quite simply, the "energy" is used to being connected to the body. And that is why it lingers.

But eventually this "soul energy" dissipates and ultimately scatters becoming a part of the earth, the moon, and the stars above.

At that point, no, there are no more memories. Sorry to break it to you. But that is the nature of things.

Pagan gods and false religions are all demon inspired trash from hell!!!! WISE UP!!

You are truly one trashed-out mother ******.

 

[Mr. H.]

And you will die your own death.

 

[CorvusRexus]

It's possible for man to have free will in heaven and yet never sin. We have a new, divine nature in Christ. This nature cannot sin, just as Christ cannot sin. Even though Jesus could not sin, He was still free. Therefore, we can exist with free will in heaven and we will not sin. We know this is not an illogical idea, since no one argues that God has no free will, yet God cannot sin. So, it is possible for a being to exist, be truly free and not able to sin. We all sin in these flesh mortal bodies but at the rapture we believers will receiv a new imortal body not of flesh and blood and a new sinless nature. PTL.

Dude, God created sin and evil. Not Satan. God did.

 

[Moonglow]

God created everything, therefore he is to blame....

 

[GISMYS]

It's possible for man to have free will in heaven and yet never sin. We have a new, divine nature in Christ. This nature cannot sin, just as Christ cannot sin. Even though Jesus could not sin, He was still free. Therefore, we can exist with free will in heaven and we will not sin. We know this is not an illogical idea, since no one argues that God has no free will, yet God cannot sin. So, it is possible for a being to exist, be truly free and not able to sin. We all sin in these flesh mortal bodies but at the rapture we believers will receiv a new imortal body not of flesh and blood and a new sinless nature. PTL.

Dude, God created sin and evil. Not Satan. God did.

only a blinded total fool would think God created sin and the evil people do!!! NO!!! SIN AND ALL EVIL ARE satan and man's creation!!! Proof= man creates evil everyday,just look around!!

 

[GISMYS]

evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

 

[Dajjal]

evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

Thats a really good post, far better than your usual ranting about Jesus.

 

[GISMYS]

So you get it??? Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.
EVIL IS SATAN AND MAN'S CREATION,AND WE CREATE EVIL BY OUR ACTIONS AND WORDS EVERYDAY!!!

 

[hotpotato]

evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

Thats a really good post, far better than your usual ranting about Jesus.

Yeah, nice one Tiger...funny I read the very same post on yahoo answers the other day. Don't thing it was Gismys who wrote it though!

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Perhaps rephrasing the question will help. Googling a specificly Jewish question seeking a specificly Jewish answer I find,

"In the words of the Talmudic sage Rav Yosef, “The mitzvot will be nullified in the world to come.""
The Nullification of the Commandments

"However, there are many talmudic and midrashic passages which clearly imply that the laws of the Torah will continue to be observed in the future world of Moshiach.[4] The Jerusalem Talmud explicitly states that “The laws (halachot) of the Torah will never be nullified.”[5] Indeed, the eternality and immutability of the Torah’s laws is one of the most basic principles of the Jewish faith.[6]
Function and Essence

The key to the resolution of this apparent contradiction lies in a difference in the choice of words between the above-quoted statements. Rav Yosef tells us that “The mitzvot will be nullified in the world to come,” while the Jerusalem Talmud states that “The laws of the Torah (halachot sheba’Torah) will never be nullified.”"

Goes on, at great length - we love to read.

 

[CorvusRexus]

It's possible for man to have free will in heaven and yet never sin. We have a new, divine nature in Christ. This nature cannot sin, just as Christ cannot sin. Even though Jesus could not sin, He was still free. Therefore, we can exist with free will in heaven and we will not sin. We know this is not an illogical idea, since no one argues that God has no free will, yet God cannot sin. So, it is possible for a being to exist, be truly free and not able to sin. We all sin in these flesh mortal bodies but at the rapture we believers will receiv a new imortal body not of flesh and blood and a new sinless nature. PTL.

Dude, God created sin and evil. Not Satan. God did.

only a blinded total fool would think God created sin and the evil people do!!! NO!!! SIN AND ALL EVIL ARE satan and man's creation!!! Proof= man creates evil everyday,just look around!!

But God created everything. Including Satan, Hell, sin, evil, etc. Satan may have been the one who got Eve to bite the apple, but God put Satan in paradise and put the tree there as well. God created the desire to do wrong and sin.

 

[CorvusRexus]

evil is not a “thing” like a rock or electricity. You cannot have a jar of evil. Evil has no existence of its own; it is really the absence of good. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole, but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all He created was good. One of the good things God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So, God allowed these free angels and humans to choose good or reject good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a “thing” that required God to create it.

Perhaps a further illustration will help. If a person is asked, “Does cold exist?” the answer would likely be “yes.” However, this is incorrect. Cold does not exist. Cold is the absence of heat. Similarly, darkness does not exist; it is the absence of light. Evil is the absence of good, or better, evil is the absence of God. God did not have to create evil, but rather only allow for the absence of good.

God did not create evil, but He does allow evil. If God had not allowed for the possibility of evil, both mankind and angels would be serving God out of obligation, not choice. He did not want “robots” that simply did what He wanted them to do because of their “programming.” God allowed for the possibility of evil so that we could genuinely have a free will and choose whether or not we wanted to serve Him.

So evil is a force older than God, or just as old? If God is inherently good, and evil is the absence of good, then since the before the beginning of the universe, evil has existed. That would imply Satan is not man's creation, or God's, or at least that there is some malevolent evil force as old as God and certainly just as powerful.

 

[Mr. H.]

But is God not changeable? My philosophy is that many pagan religions were actually their interpretations of God as he appeared to them. If God appeared to ancient cultures differently based on how he wanted them to interpret him, wouldn't it stand to reason that God appears to us all uniquely based upon the interpretation we personally discover? Besides, I always interpreted the "Church" as not a reference to sects and divisions and establishments, but rather God's Kingdom. Jesus brings the final incarnation and update from God and thus establishes his "Church." As all of us are members of the body of Christ, we all are members of the church. And as a body has many parts and functions, so do our own interpretations of Scripture and how our personal faith impacts the Church.

As I understand it, God didn't make an appearance to any Pagan past or present.

God is the earth beneath the feet of Pagans. The moon in the sky, and the stars above.

Our bodies don't "have" souls, souls have human bodies.

As to free will in the afterlife - the soul inherently clings to its body after the body's death.

Yes, there are memories initially. And that is natural. The soul or spirit or, quite simply, the "energy" is used to being connected to the body. And that is why it lingers.

But eventually this "soul energy" dissipates and ultimately scatters becoming a part of the earth, the moon, and the stars above.

At that point, no, there are no more memories. Sorry to break it to you. But that is the nature of things.

Pagan gods and false religions are all demon inspired trash from hell!!!! WISE UP!!

The very same energy that constitutes our human minds, bodies, and spirits is sourced at the source- the bridge moment of the non-physical spirit realm to the purely physical realm.

Upon death, this energy of ours ultimately dissipates among the physical universe. There is no return to that pre-creation "God", because it no longer exists.

Our consciousness as earth-bound humans simply fades, fades to the vast realm of the post-"God" physical universe.

To see yourself as anything other than simple physical energy is blasphemous.

 

[GISMYS]

As I understand it, God didn't make an appearance to any Pagan past or present.

God is the earth beneath the feet of Pagans. The moon in the sky, and the stars above.

Our bodies don't "have" souls, souls have human bodies.

As to free will in the afterlife - the soul inherently clings to its body after the body's death.

Yes, there are memories initially. And that is natural. The soul or spirit or, quite simply, the "energy" is used to being connected to the body. And that is why it lingers.

But eventually this "soul energy" dissipates and ultimately scatters becoming a part of the earth, the moon, and the stars above.

At that point, no, there are no more memories. Sorry to break it to you. But that is the nature of things.

Pagan gods and false religions are all demon inspired trash from hell!!!! WISE UP!!

The very same energy that constitutes our human minds, bodies, and spirits is sourced at the source- the bridge moment of the non-physical spirit realm to the purely physical realm.

Upon death, this energy of ours ultimately dissipates among the physical universe. There is no return to that pre-creation "God", because it no longer exists.

Our consciousness as earth-bound humans simply fades, fades to the vast realm of the post-"God" physical universe.

To see yourself as anything other than simple physical energy is blasphemous.

ROFLMAO!!! WHY POST SUCH IGNORANT TRASH?? Why allow satan to use you as his tool and fool???? WISE UP!!

 

[Mr. H.]