France outlaws burkas

[Valerie]

See? France has no desire to oppress women, indeed it's quite the opposite.

Unless you are a muslim.

Then you are a second class citizen.

And have special laws enacted just for you.


Kind of reminds me of pre war Nazi Germany and their special laws to "Help" their Jewish citizens....

The law actually goes out of it's way to not mention gender or religion.

 

[Sunni Man]

The law actually goes out of it's way to not mention gender or religion.

LOL you would have made a good nazi Valerie

Do men wear burqas? No

Do christians, hindus, buddhists wear burqas? No

Then I feel it would be safe to assume that the law is direct towards women (gender) who are muslim (religion)

 

[Valerie]

The law actually goes out of it's way to not mention gender or religion.

LOL you would have made a good nazi Valerie

Do men wear burqas? No

Do christians, hindus, buddhists wear burqas? No

Then I feel it would be safe to assume that the law is direct towards women (gender) who are muslim (religion)

Too bad the law didn't mention burqas either.



What's the matter, Sunni Mouse...? You can't afford the hefty fine for forcing your woman to dress in this manner...? Your authority feeling threatened, is it...?

 

[Sunni Man]

What's the matter, Sunni Mouse...? You can't afford the hefty fine for forcing your woman to dress in this manner...? Your authority feeling threatened, is it...?

Nope, not at all.

 

[Valerie]

But they are with this law.

I disagree. People are still free to wear whatever they choose to wear in most places, but now a legal standard has been set for showing your face in public places...That is not oppressive, IMO, it is fair and values individual dignity. Otherwise by what legal authority would the French government be able to reach out to these women when suddenly it's not just thousands but millions of them living faceless and voiceless in their "free society" ?

If France really meant what you claim they mean, they would have simply written a law to the effect that no one can compel anyone to cover their face or part of their face in public.

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

 

[Ravi]

I disagree. People are still free to wear whatever they choose to wear in most places, but now a legal standard has been set for showing your face in public places...That is not oppressive, IMO, it is fair and values individual dignity. Otherwise by what legal authority would the French government be able to reach out to these women when suddenly it's not just thousands but millions of them living faceless and voiceless in their "free society" ?

If France really meant what you claim they mean, they would have simply written a law to the effect that no one can compel anyone to cover their face or part of their face in public.

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

I didn't say you made it up...and what you've posted in no way negates what I said.

 

[Valerie]

If France really meant what you claim they mean, they would have simply written a law to the effect that no one can compel anyone to cover their face or part of their face in public.

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

I didn't say you made it up...and what you've posted in no way negates what I said.

It's just not as simple as you seem to think, is all I'm saying...

 

[Ravi]

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

I didn't say you made it up...and what you've posted in no way negates what I said.

It's just not as simple as you seem to think, is all I'm saying...

Actually, it is.

 

[Sunni Man]

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

The pre war Nazis also had a similar program for their second class citizens in the name public safety and national security.

A man who initially didn't wear the yellow Star of David was fined.

Later it was upped to a prison sentence if he or his family members were caught without one sewed onto their clothes.

Different country, different century.

Same type of people and mindset.

 

[ABikerSailor]

You know.......the only sects of Islam that require women to cover their faces are the radical ones like Wahabism.

All the others only require them to cover their hair and their body, the face is left exposed.

If you can't see a person's face, generally, they're up to no good.

 

[ConHog]

But they are with this law.

I disagree. People are still free to wear whatever they choose to wear in most places, but now a legal standard has been set for showing your face in public places...That is not oppressive, IMO, it is fair and values individual dignity. Otherwise by what legal authority would the French government be able to reach out to these women when suddenly it's not just thousands but millions of them living faceless and voiceless in their "free society" ?

If France really meant what you claim they mean, they would have simply written a law to the effect that no one can compel anyone to cover their face or part of their face in public.

Holy damn you are stupid. They don't want anyone's face covered in public whether they choose to do it to themselves OR they have it forced upon them

I wonder if Valarie would support a law that disallows Orthodox Jewish women from shaving their heads and wearing wigs?

More stupidity from Ravi. Does shaving your head and wearing a wig obscure your face in ANY way?

Good Lord you are an idiot. You can't possibly really be this stupid?

 

[Sunni Man]

If you can't see a person's face, generally, they're up to no good.

Batman and Robin covered their faces and they were always doing good and helping people.

 

[Sheldon]

I disagree. People are still free to wear whatever they choose to wear in most places, but now a legal standard has been set for showing your face in public places...That is not oppressive, IMO, it is fair and values individual dignity. Otherwise by what legal authority would the French government be able to reach out to these women when suddenly it's not just thousands but millions of them living faceless and voiceless in their "free society" ?

If France really meant what you claim they mean, they would have simply written a law to the effect that no one can compel anyone to cover their face or part of their face in public.

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

I actually agree with the part of the law that says it's a $41k fine or jail time if the woman is forced to wear one. That I think is clearly oppressive to a woman's rights. No woman should be made to wear a burqa or whatever against her will. And "forced" could be in some cases the threat of getting beaten.

 

[saveliberty]

What are they concealing under the wigs. Wicked wit probably, not bombs.

 

[lizzie]

The pre war Nazis also had a similar program for their second class citizens in the name public safety and national security.

A man who initially didn't wear the yellow Star of David was fined.

Later it was upped to a prison sentence if he or his family members were caught without one sewed onto their clothes.

Different country, different century.

Same type of people and mindset.

For someone whom I guessing doesn't like Jews, you seem to be coming their defense. Just a guess on my part.

There is a fairly stark difference between the pre-war Germans and the current day French. Germans were nationalistic and defensive, basically scape-goating the Jews for their own problems. The French are typically very liberal and tolerant, welcoming anyone into the secular society who desires to be there.

 

[Ravi]

If France really meant what you claim they mean, they would have simply written a law to the effect that no one can compel anyone to cover their face or part of their face in public.

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

I actually agree with the part of the law that says it's a $41k fine or jail time if the woman is forced to wear one. That I think is clearly oppressive to a woman's rights. No woman should be made to wear a burqa or whatever against her will. And "forced" could be in some cases the threat of getting beaten.

I wonder what the fine for beating one's wife is in France?

 

[lizzie]

If you can't see a person's face, generally, they're up to no good.

Batman and Robin covered their faces and they were always doing good and helping people.

Ummm, correlating myth and comic book superheroes to reality?

 

[saveliberty]

If you can't see a person's face, generally, they're up to no good.

Batman and Robin covered their faces and they were always doing good and helping people.

Ummm, correlating myth and comic book superheroes to reality?

But they were on TV and TV is almost exclusively reality.

 

[Sheldon]

It's not like I made it up, Ravi...I went and sought out the rationale behind this legislation so I could have an informed opinion. The French government is facing a complex issue where religious freedom and individual freedom clash with public standards of safety and citizenship. You might notice the proposed fine for a veiled face in public places is not prohibitive and the Citizenship class "punishment" offers an avenue for further communication and reconciliation...a public service probably paid for by the fine itself...Whereas the penalty for forcing anyone to veil their face in public places is both prohibitive and punitive.

I actually agree with the part of the law that says it's a $41k fine or jail time if the woman is forced to wear one. That I think is clearly oppressive to a woman's rights. No woman should be made to wear a burqa or whatever against her will. And "forced" could be in some cases the threat of getting beaten.

I wonder what the fine for beating one's wife is in France?

No idea. But if you compound that with the fine or time of forcing your wife to wear a burqa, and it sounds like it'd be a serious crime over there.

 

[ABikerSailor]

If you can't see a person's face, generally, they're up to no good.

Batman and Robin covered their faces and they were always doing good and helping people.

I suppose that you think the Green Lantern and Iron Man are real as well, don't you Sunnidiot?

Probably about as real as your supposed wife, which is to say, you're single and stupid.