Founding Fathers against Obama

[drsmith1072]

1. I have had this "national debt debate" back in 08 500 times and everyone concurred it was 7 trillion (in 2008)..

PROVE IT! where is your proof?

2. You better damn well believe congress has a say in what is spent - they ONLY DRAFT AND AUTHORIZE SPENDING.

I never said they didn't so why try to put words into my mouth? the point of this discussion is the debt under the president not the congress. So your dishonest attempts to attribute the debt BEFORE he was president to obama makes you look like a dishonest hack.

You do realize Obama's "truth team" is all over the internet destroying data and rewriting history????

Yes, it's a fucking conspiracy.....

I'm sure if you went to USPOL and searched for my older posts you would find links (which will be dead because of Obama's "truth team")

The debates will be there.

LOL So it's a conspiracy that is preventing you from backing up your arguments?? Are you really this insane??

I am not going on a wild goose chase to look for youre old posts. If you want them linked to then you find them and post them otherwise your baseless and unsubstantiated OPINIONS will remain baseless and unsubstantiated until you can provide something real to back them up with.

However, since you are now admitting that it doesn't exist, no matter what your delusional reasons may be, then that pretty much settles the fact that you are a full of shite.

 

[drsmith1072]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

I think not. If the founding fathers saw America today, they would be more likely to praise Obama than defy him. I think they were pretty smart guys and would recognize that their vision of the country 200 years ago is in need of some serious tweaking. However, you guys would have hated them. They studied science, read poetry, European newspapers, Plato, hung out in Paris and thought the Bible was bull shit.

Not quite liar:

"“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

""While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." - George Washington

""Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." - John Adams

""Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us." - Thomas Jefferson

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see." Benjamin Franklin

How about you go backj and address the TJ quotes that i posted which run counter to your spin? Or is the that thbe very reason you chose to skip them and pretend that they didn't exist??

Again you found a website that provides SOME quotes of SOME of the founding fathers with no context to show that they were actually referring to. Now show how they apply to this conversation and provide the context that theses quotes were taken from.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Wouldn't they have nipped this in the bud by resolutely defying Ronald Reagan,

or hadn't they awakened from the dead by that point yet, in your little fantasy?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I've always speculated that if the Founding Fathers were alive today

they would more than anything marvel at how diverse and complex our utilization of the Negro Slave had gotten.

 

[NYcarbineer]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers.

Which makes you an excellent example of the wisdom of schools devoting a full year to history classes.

 

[Steelplate]

Our founding fathers were Christian libertarians (classical liberals)....

God gives us our "rights" not the government, or man - and the founding fathers understood that - as a matter of fact - it was the basis of our Bill of Rights....

So saith Mr.Nick.....so saith the lord.

You got nothing but shallow mockery. The Founding Fathers were against Obama. You can't deny it.

No...you can't prove it. Funny how Conservatives speak of tyranny.....but they only think tyranny can come from government. Let me clue you in on something, slick. Since the Industrial Revolution, the big bad government's role in tyranny pales in comparison to that of Commerce and Industry. Now that they are firmly in bed with each other, I just happen to prefer the devil that we can vote out than the ones we can only either beg for their scraps or try to become one of.

 

[bobgnote]

The actual problem is pandering incompetents W and Reagan, obviously. Duh. Not Obama cleaning up their messes, dupe. LOL

Whose mess did Obama clean up? NOBODY'S.

Obama went to all the governors about Obamacare, saying public healthcare was off the table. He signed a 2700-page debacle, sure to clog courts and Congress, for years. The Democrats helped the Republlicans suppress industrial hemp legislation, which keeps getting introduced and then shelved.

The Tea Party happened, and the Democrats had no OWS, until eight months ago. The TP was able to help the Republicans win the US House, since Obama is no leader. He is the same guy who threw Rev.Jeremiah Wright over, for getting with Moses, but against zionists. Obama is a dyed-in-the-wool zionist-fascist, with the same first name, as an ancient Israelite general, who fought for Queen Deborah. He lets that go to his head.

AFTER the Democrats lost the House, they tried to pass CO2-neutral biomass research, and this lost, 2012. Obama was no leader.

Bill Clinton signed deregulation of courts, energy, and banks. Obama bailed the banks, and the Democrats did not regulate the bankers, so they vote themselves all the money in the world, if they are on boards. Energy middlemen have been passing costs around the world, since states deregulated and engaged in inflationary contracts.

Obama couldn't do energy policy. That means he would have to lead.

Obama killed more people with drones and his USDOJ busted more pot clubs, in four years, than GW's people did in eight years.

Obama lets attorneys and courts do all the fraud they can do. He let ATT off, when it was caught doing surveillance on citizens, then he has Mick Jagger over to the White House, for a move check!

The closest Obama got, to cleaning up even Bill Clinton's mess, is when he married funny Michelle. Michelle Bachmann put a BIG hot-dog in her caker, and Michelle Obama remarked, how we all need to eat our veggies. Teehee.

Tell you what. Obama cannot stand his supporters, and he wants their MUNEE. He was singing Barry White's Can't Get Enough of Your Love, Babe, on Fallon. This indicates he is getting ready to step onstage and take your money, if you pay him, like Bill Clinton gets paid, by his DDs, to lecture.

Barry Eugene CARTER (1944-2003) had a middle name, of a defeated Democrat, the last name, of a one-termer, the first name of our President, and he changed his last name and sold a lot of records. Obama is part white, and he wants more GREEN, see also US Rep.Al, D-Tx.

The report says Romney has momentum. Don't like sports? Check out good sports, who know, eat veggies now, for in 2013, a MEAT gets in the White House. Sorry about your luck, but don't just read MY lips, take it from two Michelles, who know.

As for founding fathers, how would they get with any modern politician, who takes money, to jeopardize USCA 4,5,14? If they were still alive, they could read US Code and enforce the RICO Act, against miserable violators, of the separation clause and standing army clause, and get us to balance the budget, somehow.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I think not. If the founding fathers saw America today, they would be more likely to praise Obama than defy him. I think they were pretty smart guys and would recognize that their vision of the country 200 years ago is in need of some serious tweaking. However, you guys would have hated them. They studied science, read poetry, European newspapers, Plato, hung out in Paris and thought the Bible was bull shit.

Not quite liar:

"“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

""While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." - George Washington

""Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." - John Adams

""Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us." - Thomas Jefferson

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see." Benjamin Franklin

How about you go backj and address the TJ quotes that i posted which run counter to your spin? Or is the that thbe very reason you chose to skip them and pretend that they didn't exist??

Again you found a website that provides SOME quotes of SOME of the founding fathers with no context to show that they were actually referring to. Now show how they apply to this conversation and provide the context that theses quotes were taken from.

You can repost them and I'll look at them. I already know that TJ wasn't much of a believer in organized religion. But pretty much to the a man, the founding fathers were very moral, spiritual or religious. And they were overwhelmingly devoutly Christian and you talked out of your ass on that one. If you want to be taken more seriously then don't spout such nonsense.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers.

Which makes you an excellent example of the wisdom of schools devoting a full year to history classes.

Actually, I had the thought that I wished the wisdom of the founding fathers were more routinely instituted into my education. But I went to the public indoctrination system. And that's my loss. Nice sound clip retort you had though.

 

[Flopper]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

I think not. If the founding fathers saw America today, they would be more likely to praise Obama than defy him. I think they were pretty smart guys and would recognize that their vision of the country 200 years ago is in need of some serious tweaking. However, you guys would have hated them. They studied science, read poetry, European newspapers, Plato, hung out in Paris and thought the Bible was bull shit.

Not quite liar:

"“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

""While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." - George Washington

""Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." - John Adams

""Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us." - Thomas Jefferson

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see." Benjamin Franklin

Morality, yes. Christianity, No.

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, or God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

In the Declaration, it mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence", that's the language of Deism, not Christianity.

I believe most of the founding fathers had a strong sense of morality but not necessarily a strong belief in Christianity or any religion and they certainly did not believe they were founding a Christian or even a religious nation.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I think not. If the founding fathers saw America today, they would be more likely to praise Obama than defy him. I think they were pretty smart guys and would recognize that their vision of the country 200 years ago is in need of some serious tweaking. However, you guys would have hated them. They studied science, read poetry, European newspapers, Plato, hung out in Paris and thought the Bible was bull shit.

Not quite liar:

"“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

""While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." - George Washington

""Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." - John Adams

""Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us." - Thomas Jefferson

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see." Benjamin Franklin

Morality, yes. Christianity, No.

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, or God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

In the Declaration, it mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence", that's the language of Deism, not Christianity.

I believe most of the founding fathers had a strong sense of morality but not necessarily a strong belief in Christianity or any religion and they certainly did not believe they were founding a Christian or even a religious nation.

Let me be clear. The founding fathers were not founding a theocracy. They knew that was a bad idea. But you can't ignore that they were all deeply spiritual or religious. And that deism card is something libs have played to downplay that reality. Only a few of them like TJ and arguably Ben Franklin were really deists. Most of them were devout Christians.

 

[Listening]

Back to the topic at hand.

I have posted for the likes of Syphon, who then disappeared, quite a number of different quotes out of the Federalist Papers. Mainly coming from 44/45/46. 10 and 39 are also pretty revealing.

From 45...the best;

The powers delegated by the proposed Constitution to the federal government are few and defined. Those which are to remain in the State governments are numerous and indefinite. The former will be exercised principally on external objects, as war, peace, negotiation, and foreign commerce; with which last the power of taxation will, for the most part, be connected. The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

The operations of the federal government will be most extensive and important in times of war and danger; those of the State governments, in times of peace and security. As the former periods will probably bear a small proportion to the latter, the State governments will here enjoy another advantage over the federal government. The more adequate, indeed, the federal powers may be rendered to the national defense, the less frequent will be those scenes of danger which might favor their ascendancy over the governments of the particular States.

 

[Flopper]

Not quite liar:

"“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

""While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian." - George Washington

""Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be." - John Adams

""Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us." - Thomas Jefferson

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see." Benjamin Franklin

Morality, yes. Christianity, No.

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, or God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

In the Declaration, it mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence", that's the language of Deism, not Christianity.

I believe most of the founding fathers had a strong sense of morality but not necessarily a strong belief in Christianity or any religion and they certainly did not believe they were founding a Christian or even a religious nation.

Let me be clear. The founding fathers were not founding a theocracy. They knew that was a bad idea. But you can't ignore that they were all deeply spiritual or religious. And that deism card is something libs have played to downplay that reality. Only a few of them like TJ and arguably Ben Franklin were really deists. Most of them were devout Christians.

I think most of them were spiritual but not religious. If you expected to assume a leadership role in the community in 18th century America, it was a given that you would be a member of a Christian church. However being a member of a church and having any real religious beliefs is quite different.

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Gouverneur Morris, and James Madison all seemed clearly to be deist in their beliefs.
Hamilton was religious in his youth and old age, but critical of organized religion through most of his life.
The nature of George Washington's religious beliefs has been debated by historians and biographers for over two hundred years. Washington rarely discussed or wrote about his religious and philosophical opinions in any great detail. Unlike orthodox believers he rarely used the word "God" except in non-religious catchphrases such as "thank God," "God knows". Whether his religion was any more than what was required by a man of position, we will never know.

John and Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry were all thought of as very religious men.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Morality, yes. Christianity, No.

If the U.S. was founded on the Christian religion, the Constitution would clearly say so--but it does not. Nowhere does the Constitution say: "The United States is a Christian Nation", or anything even close to that. In fact, the words "Jesus Christ, Christianity, Bible, Creator, Divine, or God" are never mentioned in the Constitution-- not even once. Nowhere in the Constitution is religion mentioned, except in exclusionary terms.

In the Declaration, it mentions "Nature's God" and "Divine Providence", that's the language of Deism, not Christianity.

I believe most of the founding fathers had a strong sense of morality but not necessarily a strong belief in Christianity or any religion and they certainly did not believe they were founding a Christian or even a religious nation.

Let me be clear. The founding fathers were not founding a theocracy. They knew that was a bad idea. But you can't ignore that they were all deeply spiritual or religious. And that deism card is something libs have played to downplay that reality. Only a few of them like TJ and arguably Ben Franklin were really deists. Most of them were devout Christians.

I think most of them were spiritual but not religious. If you expected to assume a leadership role in the community in 18th century America, it was a given that you would be a member of a Christian church. However being a member of a church and having any real religious beliefs is quite different.

Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Paine, Gouverneur Morris, and James Madison all seemed clearly to be deist in their beliefs.
Hamilton was religious in his youth and old age, but critical of organized religion through most of his life.
The nature of George Washington's religious beliefs has been debated by historians and biographers for over two hundred years. Washington rarely discussed or wrote about his religious and philosophical opinions in any great detail. Unlike orthodox believers he rarely used the word "God" except in non-religious catchphrases such as "thank God," "God knows". Whether his religion was any more than what was required by a man of position, we will never know.

John and Samuel Adams and Patrick Henry were all thought of as very religious men.

There are plenty of accounts of Washington's actions and quotes to show that he was quite devout. That's not even in dispute. I can dig up the quotes if need be, but it's not at all in dispute. When you say things like that, I just feel like you are not being at all honest with me and I can't take your other claims seriously.

 

[Artevelde]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Newsflash: the Founding Fathers are dead.

 

[Douger]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

The founders weren't cowards. They would have killed monkey boy and destroyed Capital Hill and Wall Street while in full sessions.
You prix send emails to your "representatives"

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Newsflash: the Founding Fathers are dead.

And yet they're more important than your forgetfulness in the name of your corrupt agenda.

 

[NYcarbineer]

OK, Sure - one is consistent and the other is not...

So, are you claiming that Reagan didn't "consistently" increase the national debt? (He did).

I never claimed that....

I'll tell you what tho - Obama doubled the debt that all presidents combined accumulated in - 3 years none the less.

The debt was 10.6 trillion as of January 21, 2009.

Is it 21.2 trillion or more now?

 

[NYcarbineer]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers.

Which makes you an excellent example of the wisdom of schools devoting a full year to history classes.

Actually, I had the thought that I wished the wisdom of the founding fathers were more routinely instituted into my education. But I went to the public indoctrination system. And that's my loss. Nice sound clip retort you had though.

Fine, then let's go back to why you didn't cite Ronald Reagan's profligate deficit spending as something the founders would have objected to long before Obama was president.

 

[Artevelde]

I just finished a couple hours of studying the Founding Fathers. They gave ominous warnings against people like Obama and I'm convinced that they would resolutely defy Obama were they alive today.

"We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt." -- Thomas Jefferson

Newsflash: the Founding Fathers are dead.

And yet they're more important than your forgetfulness in the name of your corrupt agenda.

What agenda?

Why do simple facts upset you?