Fossil fuel industries have a large quiver full of strategies to lure us away from the truth

[Crick]

Much cleaner, you cant claim millions of solar panels were manufactured without polluting. You cant state the square miles of land they sit on is not destroyed

The process of manufacturing solar panels and deploying them, over their lifespan, is enormously less polluting than a fossil fuel powered plant with the same capacity.

 

[elektra]

The process of manufacturing solar panels and deploying them, over their lifespan, is enormously less polluting than a fossil fuel powered plant with the same capacity.

Bullshit, first and foremost, no amount of solar panels equals the capacity of one fossil fuel plant.

Then of course we are talking about 100's of millions of panels covering 100 square miles of earth.

Mining billions of tons of natural resources.

Processing billions of tons of natural resources in the world's largest heavy industry.

Destroying the earth by the square mile.

Crick, you are such a dumb, ignorant, lazy, crack pot, go do some research instead of ignoring the facts presented to you.

 

[Crick]

Bullshit, first and foremost, no amount of solar panels equals the capacity of one fossil fuel plant.

Then of course we are talking about 100's of millions of panels covering 100 square miles of earth.

Mining billions of tons of natural resources.

Processing billions of tons of natural resources in the world's largest heavy industry.

Destroying the earth by the square mile.

Crick, you are such a dumb, ignorant, lazy, crack pot, go do some research instead of ignoring the facts presented to you.

I have to assume, then, that YOU HAVE done the research. Let's see it.

 

[elektra]

I have to assume, then, that YOU HAVE done the research. Let's see it.

I have responded with much research, directly to your comments. Now you will pretend you have not seen my research?

Crick, you know nothing and refuse to let facts get in the way of your ideology. But, hell, start here. Use the search engine.

I will go through and bumb some of the better posts. We could startvwith that thread were I proved renewables are a heavy industry. Many post you ignored in that one.

 

[elektra]

I have to assume, then, that YOU HAVE done the research. Let's see it.

At 40 pounds each you can not deny solar panels have consumed over a trillion tons of natural resources

33 Solar Energy Statistics You Need To Know (2021 Data)

Looking for relevant, up to date, solar energy statistics? We gathered all of the raw solar energy data you're looking for in one place - Click Here!

sunbadger.com

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Not according to FlaCalTenn to whom I was talking, who wrote: "Same thing with coal plants. Lack of maintenance to the scrubbing systems because to GET A PERMIT for maintenance -- you need to comply with the phony CO2 emissions standards that MIGHT BE MET with ADVANCED scrubbers required by the permit -- but no thinking person wants to INVEST THAT MUCH in an 60 or 90 yr old coal plant."

Seems to me that China should be the main target of these efforts, no?

 

[Crick]

At 40 pounds each you can not deny solar panels have consumed over a trillion tons of natural resources

33 Solar Energy Statistics You Need To Know (2021 Data)

Looking for relevant, up to date, solar energy statistics? We gathered all of the raw solar energy data you're looking for in one place - Click Here!

sunbadger.com

View attachment 738047

92,700,000,000 panels x 40 lbs/panel = 3,708,000,000,000 pounds = 1 billion, 854 million tons. That's a long ways from "trillions of tons". The most mined materials are coal, iron and bauxite, not silicon. Silicon - the material mined to make solar panels - is the second most abundant material on this planet after oxygen.

 

[elektra]

92,700,000,000 panels x 40 lbs/panel = 3,708,000,000,000 pounds = 1 billion, 854 million tons. That's a long ways from "trillions of tons". The most mined materials are coal, iron and bauxite, not silicon. Silicon - the material mined to make solar panels - is the second most abundant material on this planet after oxygen.

Crick, the mistake you are making is you have assumed a ton natural resources makes one ton of solar panel.
Let me address your gross errors first.

Silicon is not mined. Silicon is manufactured from Silica. Silica is mined, or technically, quartz is mined.

 

[elektra]

92,700,000,000 panels x 40 lbs/panel = 3,708,000,000,000 pounds = 1 billion, 854 million tons. That's a long ways from "trillions of tons". The most mined materials are coal, iron and bauxite, not silicon. Silicon - the material mined to make solar panels - is the second most abundant material on this planet after oxygen.

What does the most mined, have to do with my statement? Nothing. But it is interesting that we do need bauxite to many a solar panel.

Crick, this is simple but it takes a lot of time, this is not a 1 + 1 = 2, problem that you seem to think it is. It is a little more complex.

The Aluminum portion of a solar panel is made from bauxite.

https://www.toppr.com/ask/question/in-order-to-obtain-1-tonne-of-aluminium-4-tonnes-of-bauxite-150-kg-of/

In order to obtain 1 tonne of aluminium, 4 tonnes of bauxite, 150 kg of sodium hydroxide and 600 kg of graphite is required​

With very little research we see that it will require 5 times as much raw materials to produce one ton of finished product. At the least, and I have yet to introduce the energy required, the water. What does it take to make a 150kg of sodium hydroxide or 600 kilos of graphite.

Open Knowledge Wiki - Manufacturing and Production of Graphite

nucleus.iaea.org

Modern graphite manufacture commences with a high molecular weight hydrocarbon, often natural pitch or a residue of crude oil distillation, which is first converted to coke by heating in the absence of air. This is long and complex process, usually taking several weeks to perform. The result of the process is that the carbon atoms order themselves in extensive hexagonal clumps and create a Good Coke.The coke is the calcinated, crushed and sieved to get a specific distribution of particle sizes. Next these particles are bound together using hot pitch, and the mixture extruded or moulded to form rough blocks of the shape eventually desired.

Gee, crick, look, it takes fossil fuels to make Solar Panels, how many tons per ton of graphite, to make the aluminum, to make the frames and mounts for solar panels.

1 + 1 = 2, is not the equation needed to calculate how many tons of natural resources it takes to make a trillion tons of solar panels. And one thing to note, I stated a panel weighs 40 lbs, which is below average, well below average.

More than a trillion tons of natural resources to make the panels already produced. Thus far I have only accounted for 5% of my claim. There is much left out, like water. The Electricity used. How many lbs or gallons of fossil fuels to produce the graphite.

Water may account for another 50%? 90%? More?

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL.....over the past 10 years in this forum, we have heard the exact same narrative from the same handful of climate crusaders. The same three or four bozos. And what has changed in 10 years?

Dick.

This four person crusade is ghey. This forum is DOMINATED by skeptics.

Bank hedge funding is predicated upon one thing and one thing only: fossil fuels. Who thinks that is going to change any time soon? Only the pod people.

 

[skookerasbil]

$7,000,000,000,000
Who's not winning?

Private equity’s dirty dozen: the 12 US firms funding dirty energy projects

Whooops

 

[skookerasbil]

So much winning.......I cant even take it.

 

[Crick]

What does the most mined, have to do with my statement? Nothing. But it is interesting that we do need bauxite to many a solar panel.

Crick, this is simple but it takes a lot of time, this is not a 1 + 1 = 2, problem that you seem to think it is. It is a little more complex.

The Aluminum portion of a solar panel is made from bauxite.

https://www.toppr.com/ask/question/in-order-to-obtain-1-tonne-of-aluminium-4-tonnes-of-bauxite-150-kg-of/

In order to obtain 1 tonne of aluminium, 4 tonnes of bauxite, 150 kg of sodium hydroxide and 600 kg of graphite is required​

With very little research we see that it will require 5 times as much raw materials to produce one ton of finished product. At the least, and I have yet to introduce the energy required, the water. What does it take to make a 150kg of sodium hydroxide or 600 kilos of graphite.

Open Knowledge Wiki - Manufacturing and Production of Graphite

nucleus.iaea.org

Gee, crick, look, it takes fossil fuels to make Solar Panels, how many tons per ton of graphite, to make the aluminum, to make the frames and mounts for solar panels.

1 + 1 = 2, is not the equation needed to calculate how many tons of natural resources it takes to make a trillion tons of solar panels. And one thing to note, I stated a panel weighs 40 lbs, which is below average, well below average.

More than a trillion tons of natural resources to make the panels already produced. Thus far I have only accounted for 5% of my claim. There is much left out, like water. The Electricity used. How many lbs or gallons of fossil fuels to produce the graphite.

Water may account for another 50%? 90%? More?

This is quite obviously pure, anally-derived bullshit. I want to see the math behind your repeated claim of a trillion tons of raw materials to make solar panels.

 

[elektra]

This is quite obviously pure, anally-derived bullshit. I want to see the math behind your repeated claim of a trillion tons of raw materials to make solar panels.

Crick, I am having fun showing that your opinion is pure igonrance.

Math? First one must show all the materials required. That is where crick fails.

Just one ton of alumina, requires a minumum of five tons of raw material.

Bauxite, Graphite, Sodium hydroxide

Bauxite, 4 tons per ton of alumina

1 ton of bauxite requires 13 tons of raw material

52 tons of raw material, dirt for 1 ton alumina

 

[elektra]

I have to assume, then, that YOU HAVE done the research. Let's see it.

52,000 lbs of water per 1 lb of alumina

 

[hadit]

We held the tobacco companies responsible for their lies, we need to do the same for the fossil fuel industries. They knew in the early 1980's that the continued use of fossil fuels were going to have catastrophic consequences. Now 50 years later, as huge areas are facing increasingly damaging floods and fires, we are seeing the start of those consequences. The corporate offices past and present should have criminal charges brought against them, and the companies should be seized and assets shut down and sold for scrap. We can transition to renewables by 2030 should we choose to do so. But we cannot do that if these bastard continue to own our political processes.

Exxon Knew about Climate Change Almost 40 Years Ago

A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation

www.scientificamerican.com

Can we also do the same to the solar panel companies that are polluting so badly, and the EV battery manufacturers that are spewing so much CO2?

 

[Crick]

Can we also do the same to the solar panel companies that are polluting so badly, and the EV battery manufacturers that are spewing so much CO2?

No, but we might be able to do it to you... ; - )

 

[hadit]

No, but we might be able to do it to you... ; - )

I don't own any of those companies, so, no.

 

[Crick]

Can we also do the same to the solar panel companies that are polluting so badly, and the EV battery manufacturers that are spewing so much CO2?

Humans, by the combustion of coal and petroleum, have put 1.6 trillion tons of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere and add another 34 billion tonnes each year. Solar panels and battery manufacturers have a VERY long ways to go before catching up with that. If you think the solar panel and battery manufacturers should be punished for their emissions, you must think the fossil fuel indusries deserve mass execution.

 

[ding]

Humans, by the combustion of coal and petroleum, have put 1.6 trillion tons of CO2 into the Earth's atmosphere and add another 34 billion tonnes each year. Solar panels and battery manufacturers have a VERY long ways to go before catching up with that. If you think the solar panel and battery manufacturers should be punished for their emissions, you must think the fossil fuel indusries deserve mass execution.

What percentage is that relative to the total material balance of CO2? Don't forget to include the oceans. Once you have that perspective, compare the volume of the annual CO2 emission by man to the volume of the seasonal fluctuation of CO2. What did you find?