For those of you who just...don't...get...it

[Bullypulpit]

<center><h1><a href=http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html>CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE</a></h1>
<b>and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment</b></center>


<blockquote>The States Parties to this Convention,

Considering that, in accordance with the principles proclaimed in the Charter of the United Nations, recognition of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Recognizing that those rights derive from the inherent dignity of the human person,

Considering the obligation of States under the Charter, in particular Article 55, to promote universal respect for, and observance of, human rights and fundamental freedoms,
Having regard to article 5 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and article 7 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, both of which provide that no one may be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment,

Having regard also to the Declaration on the Protection of All Persons from Being Subjected to Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, adopted by the General Assembly on 9 December 1975 (resolution 3452 (XXX)),

Desiring to make more effective the struggle against torture and other cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment throughout the world,

Have agreed as follows:

Part I
Article 1

1. For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
2. This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.

Article 2

1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

Article 3

1. No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler") or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
2. For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights. </blockquote>

The US is signatory to this treaty, and is in breach of it.

 

[5stringJeff]

Part I
Article 1

1. For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity.

.....

The US is signatory to this treaty, and is in breach of it.

According to the bolded parts, any country with a jail or a police force is in violation of this article. The problem is that the article is weitten too vaguely, allowing for such broad interpretation that normal interrogation techniques can be called "torture" by peacenik liberals.

 

[dmp]

Bully - you should be smart enough to NOT fall for the kinds of bull you seem to buy into...it's very strange.

 

[007]

Bully - you should be smart enough to NOT fall for the kinds of bull you seem to buy into...it's very strange.

What ever gave you that idea -=d=-?

 

[Mr. P]

Just another bag of dog poop set afire and tossed on the front porch for someone to stomp.

 

[007]

Just another bag of dog poop set afire and tossed on the <a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=front%20porch" onmouseover="window.status='<a style='text-decoration: none; border-bottom: 3px double;' href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=22&k=front%20porch" onmouseover="window.status='front porch'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">front porch</a>'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">front porch</a> for someone to stomp.

And judging by the amount of that crap he posts on here, he must spend a considerable amount of time digging that shit up. His brain is simply pickled with it. I believe he's beyond hope.

I know he gets his kicks posting it here too. He always gets someone to "stomp on the burning bag".

I can't bring myself to give him a thoughtful response, since all he ever posts is bullshit, that's all I ever give him in return.

Just look at his self portrait he's using as an avatar. A picture speaks a thousand words.

 

[Mr. P]

And judging by the amount of that crap he posts on here, he must spend a considerable amount of time digging that shit up. His brain is simply pickled with it. I believe he's beyond hope.

I know he gets his kicks posting it here too. He always gets someone to "stomp on the burning bag".

I can't bring myself to give him a thoughtful response, since all he ever posts is bullshit, that's all I ever give him in return.

Just look at his self portrait he's using as an avatar. A picture speaks a thousand words.

I can't look again....Once is MORE than enough.

 

[007]

I can't look again....Once is MORE than enough.

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

 

[Bullypulpit]

According to the bolded parts, any country with a jail or a police force is in violation of this article. The problem is that the article is weitten too vaguely, allowing for such broad interpretation that normal interrogation techniques can be called "torture" by peacenik liberals.

Severe pain and suffering = Cruel and unusual punishment. You're reaching boyo, and missing.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Aside from gop jeff, it seems that those who have responded thus far lack the wherewithal to address the issue. Thus they resort to mindless ad hominem attacks. Well, the mindless part suits them well.

 

[dilloduck]

With this new type of war we made need new rules to be written

 

[Mr. P]

Aside from gop jeff, it seems that those who have responded thus far lack the wherewithal to address the issue. Thus they resort to mindless ad hominem attacks. Well, the mindless part suits them well.

That's because there is no issue, cept in your mind.
I guess you missed the last part...Typical, huh. I wonder if you even read the whole thing. Or did you just toss in the part you wanted in that bag of poop?

States which have Signed but not yet Ratified the Convention Against Torture

Belgium
Bolivia
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Gabon
Gambia
Iceland
Indonesia
Morocco
Nicaragua
Nigeria
Sierra Leone
Sudan
United States of America

 

[Johnney]

That's because there is no issue, cept in your mind.
I guess you missed the last part...Typical, huh. I wonder if you even read the whole thing. Or did you just toss in the part you wanted in that bag of poop?

States which have Signed but not yet Ratified the Convention Against Torture

Belgium
Bolivia
Costa Rica
Cuba
Dominican Republic
Gabon
Gambia
Iceland
Indonesia
Morocco
Nicaragua
Nigeria
Sierra Leone
Sudan
United States of America

we no more need to sign that piece of crap anymore than we need bully to be the president of the US. like dude said on CNN the other day, torture/ theft/ abuse etc is never an issue until the US gets caught doing it or is accused of doing it. we need to get down to their level, lower than their level

 

[freeandfun1]

Aside from gop jeff, it seems that those who have responded thus far lack the wherewithal to address the issue. Thus they resort to mindless ad hominem attacks. Well, the mindless part suits them well.

stfu... You have no room to talk about ad hominem attacks, as you are the number 1 perpetrator of such.

I really do not give a shit what we signed way back when. The world is different now and if we have to castrate bastards to get the info out of em, then so be it.

 

[freeandfun1]

Oh, and by the way, you are one of the ugliest fucks I have ever seen. You really should change your avatar, as it is not at all helping your case. It just lets everybody see that you are as brain dead and stupid as you portray in your posts.

 

[007]

Oh, and by the way, you are one of the ugliest fucks I have ever seen. You really should change your avatar, as it is not at all helping your case. It just lets everybody see that you are as brain dead and stupid as you portray in your posts.

Exactly. How can you take anything serious this pompous ass posts, when it's obvious the point he wants to get accrossed, is that he's "LAUGHING IN YOUR FACE"?

His main objective here is to ANOY. Period. If one of us went to his world, the DU, and did what he does here, we'd be BANNED within MINUTES. He's here taking advantage of the goodness of conservatives.

 

[manu1959]

the definition you are arguing is .and i quote....".....torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted ..."

operative words...severe....intentionally inflicted...

i do not belive having a bag over your head is severe

i do not belive that being stripped naked is severe

i do not belive having a dog bark at you is severe

in the context of torture inflicted on mankind since adam and eve.......the terrorist should consider themselves lucky....

further....i simply can not belive that people assit the terreorist in figthing this war in the press......as you are a coward go fight in iraq

 

[TheEnemyWithin]

And judging by the amount of that crap he posts on here, he must spend a considerable amount of time digging that s**t up. His brain is simply pickled with it. I believe he's beyond hope.

I know he gets his kicks posting it here too. He always gets someone to "stomp on the burning bag".

I can't bring myself to give him a thoughtful response, since all he ever posts is bulls**t, that's all I ever give him in return.

Just look at his self portrait he's using as an avatar. A picture speaks a thousand words.

HA HA HA HA!!! That was great. Heck, I was the one that suggested that he be banned before I get mad. :firing: Heh heh.

What the heck happened to my "To Bullypulpit from Prez. Bush" thread?? If Bully gets to post all the horsecrap he wants, why not me?? :fifty: Sell-outs.

:rotflmao:

P.S. Bully, I see the title of this thread is..."For those of you who just...don't...get...it..." Maybe you should speak for yourself.

 

[5stringJeff]

Severe pain and suffering = Cruel and unusual punishment. You're reaching boyo, and missing.

Here, again, we have reached an area of vague interpretation. What constitutes "severe pain and suffering?" What about almost-severe pain and suffering? Who decides where the line is? Is solitary confinement "severe?" What about threats? What about bread and water? Again, who decides? Even in this country, with over 200 years of judicial review and opinion, the concept of "cruel and unusual punishment" is not set in stone. To this day, groups like the ACLU try to use the cruel and unusual punsihment clause to try and undermine the death penalty.

Sorry, Bully. I still don't buy it. Not to mention (as Mr. P pointed out), the US has not ratified the convention, and thus is not legally bound by it.

 

[no1tovote4]

Severe pain and suffering = Cruel and unusual punishment. You're reaching boyo, and missing.

Not necessarily. You need to clearly define severe for us before that can work for you. Cruel and unusual is not as easily defined and you would have us believe and is still argued today in our courts. As well as the rights of these particular individuals. Since they have clearer minds and much larger Legal knowledge and authority than you or I, I therefore will allow them to determine if what we do there is illegal rather than what you narrowly define as such in order to make it fit within your unreasoning hatred of Bush.

Amazingly enough we did not hear your voice when the military did the same in Kosovo with enemy combatants there, nor in Somalia. Shoot we didn't even hear reports of any of this in the news, but they did.

Sleep deprivation and aggressive questioning is not "severe pain and suffering" either and that is all that has been approved by those in higher positions and has been used by the Military for quite some time. Shoot those same tactics are legal to use on people accused of crimes and are used by our Police Departments regularly.

Those in this conflict that have crossed that line have been and are being prosecuted and punished. Since there already is a ban againt torture as ordered from those on the highest pinnacle this really is a moot point. We aren't even in violation of the Convention even though we have not yet ratified it and thus are not bound by it.