For those of you that believe "From river to sea, Palestine must be free"... answer this!

[rosends]

Who invaded?

You’ll love this….

Gazans, under the elected leadership of Hamas invaded Israel. Maybe you hadn't heard.

 

[gipper]

Gazans, under the elected leadership of Hamas invaded Israel. Maybe you hadn't heard.

You might get informed before posting.

 

[Shusha]

Collective punishment.

No, it is not collective punishment. Israel is not punishing the people of Gaza, and certainly not simply because they belong to the collective that is "Gazans". Israel is conducting a just and defensive war against those who wish to harm her citizens and invade her sovereign territory.

In order to prevent further atrocities committed against Israel's citizens, Israel must address more than just the 6000 individual people who crossed the border into Israel and committed those atrocities. Israel also has to deal with the entire Hamas military force, the vast tunnel system, the tunnel entrances, the weapons caches, the booby-trapped buildings, the return of the hostages.

Then * someone * needs to deal with the underlying problems, which are, as I have stated before: supporting or permitting or celebrating terrorist acts and crimes against humanity; radicalizing their children; recruiting their children to the military; failing to stand up for self-determination and human rights for all peoples; denying the historical connection of the Jewish people to the homeland and usurping those rights; failing to negotiate and accept peace treaties. There are a thousand things that the people of Palestine might have done collectively that would have brought about a different outcome than requiring Israel to protect its existence and the lives of her citizens.

The people of Gaza must be accountable for addressing these underlying issues.

 

[Shusha]

Why must Palestinians ensure Israel is secure,

Because "living in peace with your neighbor" is a fundamental moral principle.

 

[Shusha]

Isreal has no sovereignty anywhere.

Only in some strange fantasy world that you live in. Israel has legal and actual sovereignty over the whole of the former Mandate for Palestine.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

It seems there is an in increase in terrorism in Judea and Samaria.

 

[gipper]

Because "living in peace with your neighbor" is a fundamental moral principle.

Yes it is. If only your nation would apply that principle.

Do you not get news where you live? Your nation has attacked 7 nations just in the past couple years.

 

[Shusha]

Yes it is. If only your nation would apply that principle.

Do you not get news where you live? Your nation has attacked 7 nations just in the past couple years.

Its like you live in a world where there are black holes in all the places that aren't Israel. Its very strange.

Hamas attacked Israel. Hezbollah attacked Israel. Syria attacked Israel. Houthis attacked Israel. Terrorists in Judea and Samaria attacked Israel. Iran attacked Israel. Israel responded to those attacks. Are you going to pretend that these attacks didn't happen?

Did you also happen to notice who didn't attack Israel? And who, therefore, has not gotten a response? Egypt and Jordan.

 

[gipper]

Its like you live in a world where there are black holes in all the places that aren't Israel. Its very strange.

Hamas attacked Israel. Hezbollah attacked Israel. Syria attacked Israel. Houthis attacked Israel. Terrorists in Judea and Samaria attacked Israel. Iran attacked Israel. Israel responded to those attacks. Are you going to pretend that these attacks didn't happen?

Did you also happen to notice who didn't attack Israel? And who, therefore, has not gotten a response? Egypt and Jordan.

Israel commits genocide in Gaza.
Israel attacks Iran.
Israel attacks Yemen.
Israel attacks Qatar.
Israel attacks Syria.
Israel attacks Lebanon.
Israel attacks Tunisia.
Israel attacks the West Bank.

Tell me again about getting along with your neighbors.

 

[MarcATL]

No, it is not collective punishment. Israel is not punishing the people of Gaza, and certainly not simply because they belong to the collective that is "Gazans". Israel is conducting a just and defensive war against those who wish to harm her citizens and invade her sovereign territory.

In order to prevent further atrocities committed against Israel's citizens, Israel must address more than just the 6000 individual people who crossed the border into Israel and committed those atrocities. Israel also has to deal with the entire Hamas military force, the vast tunnel system, the tunnel entrances, the weapons caches, the booby-trapped buildings, the return of the hostages.

Then * someone * needs to deal with the underlying problems, which are, as I have stated before: supporting or permitting or celebrating terrorist acts and crimes against humanity; radicalizing their children; recruiting their children to the military; failing to stand up for self-determination and human rights for all peoples; denying the historical connection of the Jewish people to the homeland and usurping those rights; failing to negotiate and accept peace treaties. There are a thousand things that the people of Palestine might have done collectively that would have brought about a different outcome than requiring Israel to protect its existence and the lives of her citizens.

The people of Gaza must be accountable for addressing these underlying issues.

That's exactly what they're doing.

The entire world sees it for what it is, except the most extreme Zionist bigots.

History won't be kind to you.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Israel commits genocide in Gaza.
Israel attacks Iran.
Israel attacks Yemen.
Israel attacks Qatar.
Israel attacks Syria.
Israel attacks Lebanon.
Israel attacks Tunisia.
Israel attacks the West Bank.

Tell me again about getting along with your neighbors.

you are beyond stupid.

 

[Shusha]

Israel commits genocide in Gaza.
Israel attacks Iran.
Israel attacks Yemen.
Israel attacks Qatar.
Israel attacks Syria.
Israel attacks Lebanon.
Israel attacks Tunisia.
Israel attacks the West Bank.

Tell me again about getting along with your neighbors.

Are you seriously arguing that no attacks originated from those countries on Israel? Seriously? Now I am legit worrying about your sanity.

 

[Shusha]

That's exactly what they're doing.

The entire world sees it for what it is, except the most extreme Zionist bigots.

History won't be kind to you.

Come on now. Think this through.

If you hold a hostage in your home, should you be held accountable or not?
If you have a cache of weapons in your home, should you be held accountable or not?
If you have a tunnel entrance in your home, should you be held accountable or not?
If you support, celebrate, and encourage invading another sovereign country?
If you support, celebrate, and encourage the commission of atrocities?

 

[gipper]

Are you seriously arguing that no attacks originated from those countries on Israel? Seriously? Now I am legit worrying about your sanity.

Are you seriously claiming all those nations attacked the Zionist apartheid regime committing genocide first?

 

[gipper]

you are beyond stupid.

Lol. Now I know I’m right. Not that I didn’t know, but dumb **** grunt is always wrong.

Shut off Fox News asshole.

 

[Shusha]

Are you seriously claiming all those nations attacked the Zionist apartheid regime committing genocide first?

Did you want to go through them, one by one?

Hamas attacked, Israel responded. Hezbollah attacked, Israel responded. Houthis attacked, Israel responded. Iran attacked, Israel responded.

Do you disagree?

Qatar has been harboring jihadis for decades. Tunisia claims there was no drone activity in the area and that it was not attacked at all.

 

[gipper]

Did you want to go through them, one by one?

Hamas attacked, Israel responded. Hezbollah attacked, Israel responded. Houthis attacked, Israel responded. Iran attacked, Israel responded.

Do you disagree?

Qatar has been harboring jihadis for decades. Tunisia claims there was no drone activity in the area and that it was not attacked at all.

Why must you lie all the time?

 

[Zebra]

Israel is not committing genocide. They warn civilians to leave before an attack. Hamas uses them as human shields. builds bases under schools and hospitals, and they have openly declared their goal to exterminate all the Jews in Israel. You may be indoctrinated confused or just stupid. The collateral damage is the lowest in history.
Only Jews are indigenous the Gazans are in fact Egyptians.
The good news is you dont matter

True!

 

[Coyote]

No, it is not collective punishment. Israel is not punishing the people of Gaza, and certainly not simply because they belong to the collective that is "Gazans". Israel is conducting a just and defensive war against those who wish to harm her citizens and invade her sovereign territory.

Hi Shusha

I disagree…it absolutely is collective punishment and it was from Day 1. Actually even before that, Israel has routinely engaged in collective punishment when it comes to the Palestinians. This war has been conducted with one overriding principle, reiterated here and in Israel. “There are no innocent Palestinian civilians”. While it is ostensibly a war against Hamas, it has always been a war to utterly destroy the Palestinian people.

In order to prevent further atrocities committed against Israel's citizens, Israel must address more than just the 6000 individual people who crossed the border into Israel and committed those atrocities. Israel also has to deal with the entire Hamas military force, the vast tunnel system, the tunnel entrances, the weapons caches, the booby-trapped buildings, the return of the hostages.

Then * someone * needs to deal with the underlying problems, which are, as I have stated before: supporting or permitting or celebrating terrorist acts and crimes against humanity; radicalizing their children; recruiting their children to the military; failing to stand up for self-determination and human rights for all peoples; denying the historical connection of the Jewish people to the homeland and usurping those rights; failing to negotiate and accept peace treaties. There are a thousand things that the people of Palestine might have done collectively that would have brought about a different outcome than requiring Israel to protect its existence and the lives of her citizens.

Part of this conflict is a war of narratives. The Palestinians are teaching their kids to hate Jews in schools. The Palestinians are celebrating terrorist acts. The Palestinians are denying Jews their historical connection to Palestine…..

That is the overriding narrative but it is one that ignores what Israel does. From the onset, when Israel has denied Palestinians their identity as a people, to this war now where plans were made to expel them to other Arab countries because they are all “just Arabs”.

When you talk about what Palestinians could have done collectively (and yes, I agree they could have done some things differently) you overlook the actions Israel has taken to deliberately weaken the Palestinian government and leadership, split the people of Gaza from those in the West Bank, financially support Hamas in Gaza.

It also ignores the anti-Arab racism (a legacy of the west that came with European immigrants) that is as baked into Israeli culture as antisemitism is in Arab culture and each side to effectively dehumanize the other. What are Israeli children taught about Palestinians? Why does no one say anything about Israeli children playing at being the IDF in camps? Why is it, now that Israel has strongly tilted to the right, a clear majority want to expel Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank? Why do Israeli’s celebrate bombs going off in Gaza? There is a complete lack of interest or empathy for what is happening in Gaza.

The people of Gaza must be accountable for addressing these underlying issues.

 

[Shusha]

Hi Shusha

Hey! Good to see you back! Finally, a return to thoughtful discussion. Your post contains much to dive into. I want to start with these things, if you don't mind. But if there is anything in particular you would like me to address off the top, please let me know.

Part of this conflict is a war of narratives. The Palestinians are teaching their kids to hate Jews in schools. The Palestinians are celebrating terrorist acts. The Palestinians are denying Jews their historical connection to Palestine…..

Do you believe that any of these are not objectively true?

That is the overriding narrative but it is one that ignores what Israel does.

I'd argue that it is far more prevalent for most discussions, much of media, and UN reports to ignore Hamas and what they have done. Shrug.

From the onset, when Israel has denied Palestinians their identity as a people, to this war now where plans were made to expel them to other Arab countries because they are all “just Arabs”.

I agree this is a problem. There has certainly developed over time a national identity which is "Palestinian". I've argued that very thing in the past few months.

Why does no one say anything about Israeli children playing at being the IDF in camps?

There is no moral equivalence between, "Mama, I killed ten Jews with my own bare hands!" and "Mama, I will stand between you and those who wish to kill us, and I will protect you."

Why is it, now that Israel has strongly tilted to the right, a clear majority want to expel Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank?

Because October 7 and the aftermath has radically altered Israeli perception of the possibility of peace between our two peoples. Most Israelis no longer believe peace is possible. This has become an embedded, fundamental, in-the-pit-of-your-stomach belief. Israelis see three choices: we let them kill us; we kill them; or we send them to live elsewhere. They are horrible and impossible choices. But we have to pick one. The last is the least odious and protects the most lives. (Obviously, I don't speak for any individual Israelis, nor for the collective of Israelis as a whole).

This is compounded with worldwide support along the lines of, "There will be no ceasefire until Israel ceases to exist".

There is a complete lack of interest or empathy for what is happening in Gaza.

I don't know how many Israelis you speak with each week, but I can assure you this is not the case from the large number I speak with each week.