RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Ohh check it out Pknopp who is another terrorist supporter disagrees
For those of you that believe "From river to sea, Palestine must be free"... answer this!
- Thread starter healthmyths
- Start date
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
- Sep 1, 2010
- 12,829
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You know his stripes are BS.
Have you spent time in the Middle East / Levant or been in and around Palestinian refugee camps?
I walked and hitch-hiked around the Middle East for 10 - 11 months and have both followed its events and history for about 70 years.
I stay in touch with friends and family who are stationed, working or studying in the region.
My brother in law, a Marine General, has had to deal with Yoav Gallant and other Israeli criminals while I've enjoyed the hospitality of numerous Muslims who gave me rides, provided shelter, treated me to food and water and cheerfully gave me tours of local archeological sites throughout Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Iran and Lebanon.
Because I was in Southern Lebanon during the '73 War, a little over 50 years ago, I had the opportunity to spend time with numerous Nakba survivors who remembered the earlier mass exterminations & expulsions(1) by Germany's WW 2 SS armed and trained Zionist terrorist gangs (2) like Haganah which later became IDF.
Nobody I know denies that Palestine's native residents have murdered and committed other crimes while resisting the oldest and most brutal foreign funded genocide in history.
While the SS trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs practiced widespread mutilation to terrorize the region, I am unaware of either Hamas or the SS bayonetting pregnant women in the abdomen as a routine practice. (1)
You have been emphatic that:
I agree that the Palestinian Arabs have killed innocent people while resisting a criminal 70+ year occupation but, at some point, you have to condemn the greater evil.
Apologists for Zionist genocide pretend that this conflict began with Netanyahu's long planned False Flag (3) operation on 7 October. There is currently overwhelming evidence that the Netanyahu government not only knew of the attack for over a year but deliberately weakened defenses while IDF joined in by killing over 300 Israelis to heighten national outrage.
It's not the first time that ruthless Zionists have been willing to sacrifice other Jews for their "Greater Israel":
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
Ben-Gurion’s Notorious Quotes: Their Polemical Uses & Abuses
I’ve been engaged in a long-term e-mail debate with anti-Zionists, associated with David McReynolds, a former leader of the War Resisters’ League and a tiny remnant that still calls itself the Socialist Party, USA. Seth Farber, one of the most vociferous (although not quite the nastiest) of my...
www.progressiveisrael.org
Finally, I assume that you live in the US so doesn't it bother you that it is only the cowardice of American politicians in their unwillingness to stand up to parasitic Israeli lobbies that makes this genocide possible?
Thanks,
(1) “Deir Yasin Massacre, 09.04.1948”
EXCERPT " One of the worst Zionist massacres committed against Palestinians is the Deir Yasin massacre. Defenceless Palestinian civilians were tortured before being massacres and their bodies mutilated. Women and children were raped, babies were butchered and pregnant women were bayoneted.
"A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself – the mopping up – as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the "mopping up" had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finished off with knives.
Women’s bellies were cut open and babies were butchered in the hands of their helpless mothers. Around 250 people were murdered in cold blood.[2] Of those 250 people, 25 pregnant women were bayoneted in their abdomens while still alive." CONTINUED
(2). “Zionism and the Third Reich”
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.htm
EXCERPT “In cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some forty camps and agricultural centers throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. Although the Nuremberg Laws forbid Jews from displaying the German flag, Jews were specifically guaranteed the right to display the blue and white Jewish national banner. The flag that would one day be adopted by Israel was flown at the Zionist camps and centers in Hitler's Germany. /19
Himmler's security service cooperated with the Haganah, the Zionist underground military organization in Palestine. The SS agency paid Haganah official Feivel Polkes for information about the situation in Palestine and for help in directing Jewish emigration to that country. Meanwhile, the Haganah was kept well informed about German plans by a spy it managed to plant in the Berlin headquarters of the SS. /20 Haganah-SS collaboration even included secret deliveries of German weapons to Jewish settlers for use in clashes with Palestinian Arabs. /21
In the aftermath of the November 1938 "Kristallnacht" outburst of violence and destrucltion, the SS quickly helped the Zionist organization to get back on its feet and continue its work in Germany, although now under more restricted supervision. /22” CONTINUED
(3). "HAMAS — THE BIGGEST FALSE FLAG IN HISTORY?"
"Who really planned 7th Oct?"
EXCERPT "If I were to list every Zionist false flag operation, we would be here all day.
At the very least, it can be said that the Zionists were no strangers to False Flag operations and to encouraging and burnishing fake narratives of victimhood.
Far from being a popular Palestinian movement, Hamas were in reality a marginal and weak movement, which since 2002, Netanyahu and his right-wing associates beefed up with every form of support, and declared quite openly why they were doing so." CONTINUED
pknopp
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2019
- 91,764
- 38,764
- 2,250
Have you spent time in the Middle East / Levant or been in and around Palestinian refugee camps?
I walked and hitch-hiked around the Middle East for 10 - 11 months and have both followed its events and history for about 70 years.
I stay in touch with friends and family who are stationed, working or studying in the region.
My brother in law, a Marine General, has had to deal with Yoav Gallant and other Israeli criminals while I've enjoyed the hospitality of numerous Muslims who gave me rides, provided shelter, treated me to food and water and cheerfully gave me tours of local archeological sites throughout Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Iran and Lebanon.
Because I was in Southern Lebanon during the '73 War, a little over 50 years ago, I had the opportunity to spend time with numerous Nakba survivors who remembered the earlier mass exterminations & expulsions(1) by Germany's WW 2 SS armed and trained Zionist terrorist gangs (2) like Haganah which later became IDF.
Nobody I know denies that Palestine's native residents have murdered and committed other crimes while resisting the oldest and most brutal foreign funded genocide in history.
While the SS trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs practiced widespread mutilation to terrorize the region, I am unaware of either Hamas or the SS bayonetting pregnant women in the abdomen as a routine practice. (1)
You have been emphatic that:
I agree that the Palestinian Arabs have killed innocent people while resisting a criminal 70+ year occupation but, at some point, you have to condemn the greater evil.
Apologists for Zionist genocide pretend that this conflict began with Netanyahu's long planned False Flag (3) operation on 7 October. There is currently overwhelming evidence that the Netanyahu government not only knew of the attack for over a year but deliberately weakened defenses while IDF joined in by killing over 300 Israelis to heighten national outrage.
It's not the first time that ruthless Zionists have been willing to sacrifice other Jews for their "Greater Israel":
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
Ben-Gurion’s Notorious Quotes: Their Polemical Uses & Abuses
I’ve been engaged in a long-term e-mail debate with anti-Zionists, associated with David McReynolds, a former leader of the War Resisters’ League and a tiny remnant that still calls itself the Socialist Party, USA. Seth Farber, one of the most vociferous (although not quite the nastiest) of my...
Finally, I assume that you live in the US so doesn't it bother you that it is only the cowardice of American politicians in their unwillingness to stand up to parasitic Israeli lobbies that makes this genocide possible?
Thanks,
(1) “Deir Yasin Massacre, 09.04.1948”
EXCERPT " One of the worst Zionist massacres committed against Palestinians is the Deir Yasin massacre. Defenceless Palestinian civilians were tortured before being massacres and their bodies mutilated. Women and children were raped, babies were butchered and pregnant women were bayoneted.
"A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself – the mopping up – as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the "mopping up" had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finished off with knives.
Women’s bellies were cut open and babies were butchered in the hands of their helpless mothers. Around 250 people were murdered in cold blood.[2] Of those 250 people, 25 pregnant women were bayoneted in their abdomens while still alive." CONTINUED
(2). “Zionism and the Third Reich”
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.htm
EXCERPT “In cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some forty camps and agricultural centers throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. Although the Nuremberg Laws forbid Jews from displaying the German flag, Jews were specifically guaranteed the right to display the blue and white Jewish national banner. The flag that would one day be adopted by Israel was flown at the Zionist camps and centers in Hitler's Germany. /19
Himmler's security service cooperated with the Haganah, the Zionist underground military organization in Palestine. The SS agency paid Haganah official Feivel Polkes for information about the situation in Palestine and for help in directing Jewish emigration to that country. Meanwhile, the Haganah was kept well informed about German plans by a spy it managed to plant in the Berlin headquarters of the SS. /20 Haganah-SS collaboration even included secret deliveries of German weapons to Jewish settlers for use in clashes with Palestinian Arabs. /21
In the aftermath of the November 1938 "Kristallnacht" outburst of violence and destrucltion, the SS quickly helped the Zionist organization to get back on its feet and continue its work in Germany, although now under more restricted supervision. /22” CONTINUED
(3). "HAMAS — THE BIGGEST FALSE FLAG IN HISTORY?"
"Who really planned 7th Oct?"
EXCERPT "If I were to list every Zionist false flag operation, we would be here all day.
At the very least, it can be said that the Zionists were no strangers to False Flag operations and to encouraging and burnishing fake narratives of victimhood.
Far from being a popular Palestinian movement, Hamas were in reality a marginal and weak movement, which since 2002, Netanyahu and his right-wing associates beefed up with every form of support, and declared quite openly why they were doing so." CONTINUED
I believe war is a complete failure in leadership.
Wrong again:
“Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders”
Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders
Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’
www.theguardian.com
EXCERPT “Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967.
The new document states the Islamist movement it is not seeking war with the Jewish people – only with Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.
The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.” CONTINUED
Meanwhile, most Americans and far better educated people know who's committing genocide.
toomuchtime_
Gold Member
- Dec 29, 2008
- 22,097
- 6,528
- 280
Bullshit. Hamas says it will accept a Palestinian state in the territories but will also continue the war against Israel until Israel is destroyed.Wrong again:
“Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders”
Hamas presents new charter accepting a Palestine based on 1967 borders
Document aims to heal divisions within Palestinian movement and ease peace process but Netanhayu says: ‘Hamas is attempting to fool the world’
EXCERPT “Hamas has unveiled a new political programme softening its stance on Israel by accepting the idea of a Palestinian state in territories occupied by Israel in the six-day war of 1967.
The new document states the Islamist movement it is not seeking war with the Jewish people – only with Zionism that drives the occupation of Palestine.
The new document also insists that Hamas is a not a revolutionary force that seeks to intervene in other countries, a commitment that is likely to be welcomed by other states such as Egypt.” CONTINUED
Meanwhile, most Americans and far better educated people know who's committing genocide.
HikerGuy83
Diamond Member
- Dec 26, 2021
- 18,902
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Shusha
Gold Member
- Dec 14, 2015
- 16,290
- 3,659
- 290
LOL.
From the Charter (excerpts)
2. Palestine, which extends from the River Jordan in the east to the Mediterranean in the west and from Ras al-Naqurah in the north to Umm al-Rashrash in the south, is an integral territorial unit. It is the land and the home of the Palestinian people. The expulsion and banishment of the Palestinian people from their land and the establishment of the Zionist entity therein do not annul the right of the Palestinian people to their entire land and do not entrench any rights therein for the usurping Zionist entity.
10. Jerusalem is the capital of Palestine. ... Not one stone of Jerusalem can be surrendered or relinquished. ...
19. There shall be no recognition of the legitimacy of the Zionist entity. ...
20. Hamas believes that no part of the land of Palestine shall be compromised or conceded, irrespective of the causes, the circumstances and the pressures and no matter how long the occupation lasts. Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea. ...
25. Resisting the occupation with all means and methods is a legitimate right guaranteed by divine laws and by international norms and laws. At the heart of these lies armed resistance, which is regarded as the strategic choice for protecting the principles and the rights of the Palestinian people.
27. A real state of Palestine is a state that has been liberated. There is no alternative to a fully sovereign Palestinian State on the entire national Palestinian soil, with Jerusalem as its capital.
remaining excerpt from Article 20, above:
However, without compromising its rejection of the Zionist entity and without relinquishing any Palestinian rights, Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.
When reading the document in full, there is absolutely no way to legitimately claim that Hamas "accepts a Palestine based on the 1967 borders".
How amusing to find you offended by governments that don't abide by International Law. (i.e. UN Resolutions #242 & #338)
Shusha
Gold Member
- Dec 14, 2015
- 16,290
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UNSC resolutions #242 and #338 have been fully resolved by peace treaties between the relevant parties, in accordance with international law.
(ii) Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;
What offends me is misrepresentation of the Hamas Charter.
You must be unaware that the Nazi armed and trained earlier Zionist terrorist gangs routinely bayonetted pregnant women in the abdomen and worse.
What's the PLO got to do with 77 years of the most brutal and ruthless foreign funded genocide in history?
Not only would Netanyahu's Genocide be impossible but without the $ Trillions extorted by parasitic Zionist lobbies, Netanyahu and his murderous Zionist miscreants would starve to death.
Thanks,
HikerGuy83
Diamond Member
- Dec 26, 2021
- 18,902
- 15,041
- 2,288
You need to contact the estates of Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm. They are always looking for this kind of material.
gipper
Diamond Member
- Jan 8, 2011
- 79,504
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You have no understanding of the history of Palestine. When you invade a foreign country murder and evict the people, you must expect a response.
SHUT OFF THE TV.
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
- Sep 1, 2010
- 12,829
- 11,638
- 2,128
Have you spent time in the Middle East / Levant or been in and around Palestinian refugee camps?
I walked and hitch-hiked around the Middle East for 10 - 11 months and have both followed its events and history for about 70 years.
I stay in touch with friends and family who are stationed, working or studying in the region.
My brother in law, a Marine General, has had to deal with Yoav Gallant and other Israeli criminals while I've enjoyed the hospitality of numerous Muslims who gave me rides, provided shelter, treated me to food and water and cheerfully gave me tours of local archeological sites throughout Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Iran and Lebanon.
Because I was in Southern Lebanon during the '73 War, a little over 50 years ago, I had the opportunity to spend time with numerous Nakba survivors who remembered the earlier mass exterminations & expulsions(1) by Germany's WW 2 SS armed and trained Zionist terrorist gangs (2) like Haganah which later became IDF.
Nobody I know denies that Palestine's native residents have murdered and committed other crimes while resisting the oldest and most brutal foreign funded genocide in history.
While the SS trained and armed Zionist terrorist gangs practiced widespread mutilation to terrorize the region, I am unaware of either Hamas or the SS bayonetting pregnant women in the abdomen as a routine practice. (1)
You have been emphatic that:
I agree that the Palestinian Arabs have killed innocent people while resisting a criminal 70+ year occupation but, at some point, you have to condemn the greater evil.
Apologists for Zionist genocide pretend that this conflict began with Netanyahu's long planned False Flag (3) operation on 7 October. There is currently overwhelming evidence that the Netanyahu government not only knew of the attack for over a year but deliberately weakened defenses while IDF joined in by killing over 300 Israelis to heighten national outrage.
It's not the first time that ruthless Zionists have been willing to sacrifice other Jews for their "Greater Israel":
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.”
Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).
Ben-Gurion’s Notorious Quotes: Their Polemical Uses & Abuses
I’ve been engaged in a long-term e-mail debate with anti-Zionists, associated with David McReynolds, a former leader of the War Resisters’ League and a tiny remnant that still calls itself the Socialist Party, USA. Seth Farber, one of the most vociferous (although not quite the nastiest) of my...
Finally, I assume that you live in the US so doesn't it bother you that it is only the cowardice of American politicians in their unwillingness to stand up to parasitic Israeli lobbies that makes this genocide possible?
Thanks,
(1) “Deir Yasin Massacre, 09.04.1948”
EXCERPT " One of the worst Zionist massacres committed against Palestinians is the Deir Yasin massacre. Defenceless Palestinian civilians were tortured before being massacres and their bodies mutilated. Women and children were raped, babies were butchered and pregnant women were bayoneted.
"A chilling account of the massacre is given by a Red Cross doctor who arrived at the village on the second day and saw himself – the mopping up – as one of the terrorists put it to him. He says that the "mopping up" had been done with machine guns, then grenades and finished off with knives.
Women’s bellies were cut open and babies were butchered in the hands of their helpless mothers. Around 250 people were murdered in cold blood.[2] Of those 250 people, 25 pregnant women were bayoneted in their abdomens while still alive." CONTINUED
(2). “Zionism and the Third Reich”
https://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n4p29_Weber.htm
EXCERPT “In cooperation with the German authorities, Zionist groups organized a network of some forty camps and agricultural centers throughout Germany where prospective settlers were trained for their new lives in Palestine. Although the Nuremberg Laws forbid Jews from displaying the German flag, Jews were specifically guaranteed the right to display the blue and white Jewish national banner. The flag that would one day be adopted by Israel was flown at the Zionist camps and centers in Hitler's Germany. /19
Himmler's security service cooperated with the Haganah, the Zionist underground military organization in Palestine. The SS agency paid Haganah official Feivel Polkes for information about the situation in Palestine and for help in directing Jewish emigration to that country. Meanwhile, the Haganah was kept well informed about German plans by a spy it managed to plant in the Berlin headquarters of the SS. /20 Haganah-SS collaboration even included secret deliveries of German weapons to Jewish settlers for use in clashes with Palestinian Arabs. /21
In the aftermath of the November 1938 "Kristallnacht" outburst of violence and destrucltion, the SS quickly helped the Zionist organization to get back on its feet and continue its work in Germany, although now under more restricted supervision. /22” CONTINUED
(3). "HAMAS — THE BIGGEST FALSE FLAG IN HISTORY?"
"Who really planned 7th Oct?"
EXCERPT "If I were to list every Zionist false flag operation, we would be here all day.
At the very least, it can be said that the Zionists were no strangers to False Flag operations and to encouraging and burnishing fake narratives of victimhood.
Far from being a popular Palestinian movement, Hamas were in reality a marginal and weak movement, which since 2002, Netanyahu and his right-wing associates beefed up with every form of support, and declared quite openly why they were doing so." CONTINUED
There is no occupation of Gaza
Palestine doesnt exist as a nation never has
The Muslim plan is to kill every Jew and Christian in the ME.
So hows that working out? Won any wars they started? No. They get their asses kicked every time
The indigenous pepole who lived in the region called Palestine are Jews. 3000 years before Islam existed.
RetiredGySgt
Diamond Member
Gaza is not a country. But Isreal is and you dont think they have a right to defend themselves.
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
- Sep 1, 2010
- 12,829
- 11,638
- 2,128
There is no occupation of Gaza
Palestine doesnt exist as a nation never has. Its called Judea and Sumaria
The Muslim plan is to kill every Jew and Christian in the ME.
So hows that working out? Won any wars they started? No. They get their asses kicked every time
The indigenous people who lived in the region called Palestine are Jews. 3000 years before Islam existed.
The Gazans are in fact Egyptians and the West Bank is filled with Jordanians.
gipper
Diamond Member
- Jan 8, 2011
- 79,504
- 43,771
- 2,605
From the river to the sea is the Lukud Party mantra and you support it. Pyscho!
AI Overview
The Israeli Likud party has historically used language similar to "from the river to the sea" to assert Israeli sovereignty over all territory between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, rejecting the creation of an independent Palestinian state
. The slogan is particularly controversial because of differing interpretations; some see it as a call for Palestinian liberation, while others, including many Israelis, view it as a call for the destruction of Israel.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/01/22/netanyahu-biden-two-state-solution-palestine-river-to-sea/#:~:text=But Netanyahu and his ruling,plan,” noted the FT.
Hafar1014
Diamond Member
- Sep 1, 2010
- 12,829
- 11,638
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Hows this working out for ya. Hamas is being destroyed. Israel stronger than ever. Gaza in a state of ruin thanks to Hamas and the idiots who put them in power.
Even though your delusional ravings are amusing, I got a good laugh at your characterization of Netanyahu and your fellow right wing Zionist "idiots" who put Hamas in power to foment either a civil war among or an uprising aided by genocidal Zionist miscreants like the 7 October False Flag operation currently exploited by genocidal Zionists.
Re:
Meet the "...idiots who put them in power."
"Why Israel Created Hamas"
Why Israel Created Hamas
Insider insights into the creation of Hamas – and other designated terrorist groups.
swprs.org
EXCERPT "Since the founding of Hamas in 1987, Israeli, American and Palestinian officials have repeatedly acknowledged that Israel did indeed help create and fund the Islamist group.
The point made by many of these officials is not that Israel “allowed” the rise of Hamas or that Hamas emerged in response to Israeli “occupation” of Palestine. Rather, their point was and is that Israel’s intelligence agencies actively helped create and finance the Hamas group.
As the officials cited below make clear, the overall goal of supporting Hamas has been to thwart the creation of a Palestinian state and avert the implementation of a two-state solution to the Palestine question" CONTINUED
In other words, you can't refute anything I've written and supported.
Good to know.
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