For all you Wrongpublicans supporting the 'Fair Tax'

[Freemason9]

Basically, the idea of a "fair tax" is to cut taxes for the rich, and make everyone else pay more. Correct?

 

[Skull Pilot]

A flat tax is regressive. That is why the Fair Tax has a prebate built into it.

Hey, Thomas Jefferson believed in progressive taxes, so why shouldn't every Jefferson-worshipping American?

I would not mind a progressive income tax so much if we banned all tax expenditures.

Regressive is a subjective term.

No, it is not. Perhaps you should study some economics before making such a boneheaded mistake.

It's a subjective label meant to infer that there is somehow pain involved with paying taxes.

A tax is a tax. A dollar is no different from a gallon of gas, or a pack of smokes.

A dollar is no different than any other dollar, a gallon of gas is no different than any other gallon of gas.

 

[bripat9643]

A sales tax, without exemptions or deductions or any other carve-outs, is the most transparent of all taxes.

It is also the most fair once you eliminate the regressive nature of it with prebates.

It is also the one which is the hardest to evade.

What's not to like?

It doesn't get rid of the IRS, and it doesn't eliminate the thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations that businesses must comply with when they report their income.

Any plan that doesn't abolish the income tax is a non-starter. It's pointless.

 

[bripat9643]

I disagree with a progressive income tax.

A flat tax is regressive. That is why the Fair Tax has a prebate built into it.

Hey, Thomas Jefferson believed in progressive taxes, so why shouldn't every Jefferson-worshipping American?

I would not mind a progressive income tax so much if we banned all tax expenditures.

Regressive is a subjective term.

The fair tax has too many moving parts. it makes no sense to charge people a higher rate only to incur the costs of cutting everyone a check each month.

Get rid of that ridiculous "prebate" and lower the rate and I'll give it a maybe.

And I don't worship any man.

The point of the prebate is to remove the burden on the poor of paying taxes. Without that, you'll have the libs harping that it imposes taxes on the poor. That's not a good position politically.

 

[g5000]

Basically, the idea of a "fair tax" is to cut taxes for the rich, and make everyone else pay more. Correct?

Nope. Incorrect.

 

[g5000]

A sales tax, without exemptions or deductions or any other carve-outs, is the most transparent of all taxes.

It is also the most fair once you eliminate the regressive nature of it with prebates.

It is also the one which is the hardest to evade.

What's not to like?

It doesn't get rid of the IRS, and it doesn't eliminate the thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations that businesses must comply with when they report their income.

Any plan that doesn't abolish the income tax is a non-starter. It's pointless.

The Fair Tax eliminates the income tax.

 

[bripat9643]

A sales tax, without exemptions or deductions or any other carve-outs, is the most transparent of all taxes.

It is also the most fair once you eliminate the regressive nature of it with prebates.

It is also the one which is the hardest to evade.

What's not to like?

It doesn't get rid of the IRS, and it doesn't eliminate the thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations that businesses must comply with when they report their income.

Any plan that doesn't abolish the income tax is a non-starter. It's pointless.

The Fair Tax eliminates the income tax.

Exactly, but the so-called "flat tax" doesn't. That's the problem with it.

 

[g5000]

Regressive is a subjective term.

No, it is not. Perhaps you should study some economics before making such a boneheaded mistake.

Oh? Really?

Yes. Really. Regressive taxation is a well understood objective term.

 

[g5000]

It doesn't get rid of the IRS, and it doesn't eliminate the thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations that businesses must comply with when they report their income.

Any plan that doesn't abolish the income tax is a non-starter. It's pointless.

The Fair Tax eliminates the income tax.

Exactly, but the so-called "flat tax" doesn't. That's the problem with it.

This is a topic about the Fair Tax. All I have been talking about is the Fair Tax.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Why not? Pyrsynylly, as a lybyryl, I like the idea of the prebate. Whereas the working poor have to wait all year long (plus a couple of months during tax season) to be refunded amounts the government knows it shouldn't be charging them, the prebate gives them the money beforehand. Why do you oppose the prebate? There's literally nothing wrong with that system.

It's cumbersome , expensive and inefficient.

Do away with it and simply charge a lower tax.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

How is it cumbersome, expensive, and inefficient? The amounts are already calculated, and because almost all Americans who would receive the prebate have a bank account, the costs associated with printing and mailing will be almost completely removed due to the utilization of direct deposits. If a lower tax is charged, that throws all the math off--plus, we can't make as much money off of foreign tourists.

The current income tax refund system is much more cumbersome, expensive, and inefficient than the prebate system would be.

So then get rid of the crap completely.

Even maintaining an electronic deposit system costs money and needs a lot of people to keep it running.

A lower rate eliminates that need.

It never makes any sense to charge people more only to give some of it back. Just charge less to begin with and cut out the crap in the middle

 

[Skull Pilot]

Most tax expenditures are also regressive, which is another reason to abolish them.

The wealthier you are, the bigger mortgage you can attain. The bigger mortgage you attain, the more money you get to deduct from your income taxes. That makes the interest rate deduction a hugely regressive tax.

There is nothing subjective about it. It is an objective fact.

The mortgage interest deduction is not a tax.

 

[g5000]

The problem with all of our current tax schemes, as I have said and amply demonstrated, is the ability of politicians to provide exemptions, deductions, carve-outs, whatever you want to call them. These tax expenditures completely undermine and corrupt whatever tax scheme you can come up with.

So until we take away the ability of politicians to do these things in exchange for campaign cash, then any talk of, or attempts at, 'reform' are just so much mental masturbation.

 

[Freemason9]

The Fair Tax eliminates the income tax.

Exactly, but the so-called "flat tax" doesn't. That's the problem with it.

This is a topic about the Fair Tax. All I have been talking about is the Fair Tax.

Why do you want to eliminate the income tax? Taxes are vital for ecomic growth in any developed economy, and that seems as good as any other taxation process.

 

[g5000]

Most tax expenditures are also regressive, which is another reason to abolish them.

The wealthier you are, the bigger mortgage you can attain. The bigger mortgage you attain, the more money you get to deduct from your income taxes. That makes the interest rate deduction a hugely regressive tax.

There is nothing subjective about it. It is an objective fact.

The mortgage interest deduction is not a tax.

I accidentally left out "expenditure".

The mortgage interest deduction is a hugely regressive tax expenditure.

Objective fact.

 

[Skull Pilot]

No, it is not. Perhaps you should study some economics before making such a boneheaded mistake.

Oh? Really? How about the economic and social benefits? I guess their nonexistent. And, indeed, your notion is the subjective meanderings of the zero-sum-game myth.

Quite right; the economic and social benefits of taxing the poor literally to death are nonexistent. I'm glad you have the sense to admit that.

Alternatively, if my suspicions of sarcasm in your post are correct, you may want to look up the definition of the term "regressive," as I do not think it means what you think it means.

Hyperbole therefore unnecessary.

A flat tax is not regressive as defined but rather is proportional.

And again the terms regressive and progressive are arbitrary and should be left out of the discussion.



.

 

[kaz]

A sales tax, without exemptions or deductions or any other carve-outs, is the most transparent of all taxes.

It is also the most fair once you eliminate the regressive nature of it with prebates.

It is also the one which is the hardest to evade.

What's not to like?

It doesn't get rid of the IRS, and it doesn't eliminate the thousands upon thousands of pages of regulations that businesses must comply with when they report their income.

Any plan that doesn't abolish the income tax is a non-starter. It's pointless.

It's a sales tax, it's a tax on revenue, what are you talking about regarding it not getting rid of thousands of pages of regulations? How many pages does it take to say, "charge X percent of sales"...

 

[g5000]

Exactly, but the so-called "flat tax" doesn't. That's the problem with it.

This is a topic about the Fair Tax. All I have been talking about is the Fair Tax.

Why do you want to eliminate the income tax? Taxes are vital for ecomic growth in any developed economy, and that seems as good as any other taxation process.

As I have explained several times, income tax is a tax on production. The Fair Tax is a tax on consumption.

Taxes on consumption are preferable to taxes on production.

 

[Skull Pilot]

A flat tax is regressive. That is why the Fair Tax has a prebate built into it.

Hey, Thomas Jefferson believed in progressive taxes, so why shouldn't every Jefferson-worshipping American?

I would not mind a progressive income tax so much if we banned all tax expenditures.

Regressive is a subjective term.

No, it is not. Perhaps you should study some economics before making such a boneheaded mistake.

I took 4 semesters of Economics.

You?

I do not think such terms add value to the concept of taxes. I like to exercise my ability to challenge ideas that are blindly accepted by people like you (sheep).

 

[g5000]

The Achilles heel of the Fair Tax is the transition period. If you have been paying income tax your whole life, and have saved for retirement, and then the Fair Tax kicks in, you are now paying sales tax with money that was already income taxed.

 

[g5000]

Regressive is a subjective term.

No, it is not. Perhaps you should study some economics before making such a boneheaded mistake.

I took 4 semesters of Economics.

You need more. Are you one of those people who only showed up for the classes that were just before the exams when the teacher coached the class on the test, and then got graded on a curve?

I've been out in the real world.