Zone1 Focusing the LGBTQ debate

[BlackSand]

You really haven't answered anything. You simply have repeated your original statement as fact. It's called begging the question and is a fallacious argument.

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Yes ... I gave you the same answer ... What did you think was going to happen?
You cannot manipulate or deceive me into changing the answer ... It's still the same ...

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I will not follow you down a rabbit hole like that.

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I don't care if you chose to follow ... And Reality will never be a rabbit hole.
Only attempts to pretend otherwise or manipulate the argument ... Will ever create a rabbit hole.

Just understand ... Neither I nor society is required to even entertain your rabbit hole ...

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[Seymour Flops]

In principle sure. In practice since competitive sports is performance based it would self-sort for certain sports automatically. There are already plenty of sports by the way that have mixed versions of it.

So why not make the mixed version the dorm for all sports? If you believe we should have girls and women sports why do you believe that? That really doesn’t fit well with the rest of your argument, does it?

Let me put it more practical. Let's say in football, probably the most physical sport there's a woman that can kick the ball better than her male counterparts, what would be your objection?

I don’t object to women competing with men like that in a men’s team/men’s sport. A woman who joins a football team is not taking advantage of having gone through a puberty that makes him stronger, faster, taller, etc., that every male who decides to participate in women’s sports.

Why is it when these men decide to suddenly become women and play other women in his team, they were always mediocre at whatever sport they played as men?

Anyway, if a woman is good enough to play on the football team, I’m fine with that. But she needs to go change in the women’s locker room. If that’s an inconvenience, I’m sorry, not sorry. Safety comes first.

 

[Seymour Flops]

The reverse is also true. Aren't you claiming that being trans is wrong and should not be accepted? And are in fact saying this should be taught to children as fact?

No, I never said that. As long as a trans person mind their own business, I’m I am happy to mind my own business. When a man decides to go into a locker room with my daughter, for any reason, or wearing any outfit, then it becomes my business.

So, acceptance of differences is to be discouraged, and demanding conformity should be encouraged. This is not bigotry how?

Of course, there are no bigger demanders of conformity than those who claim to support “trans rights.” Those who support diversity equity and inclusion have never wanted diversity of opinion.

I’ve always encouraged acceptance of differences.

 

[Blaster]

Either be a gay or a lesbian. Transsexuals try to deceive straight men into having sex.

 

[forkup]

If you believe we should have girls and women sports why do you believe that? That really doesn’t fit well with the rest of your argument, does it?

Why not? I don't believe we SHOULD have women and girls' sports. I believe because of the nature of woman and girls sports would separate automatically no matter of my opinion.

The contention is, as it was from the beginning, who would qualify as a girl in that scenario.

 

[fncceo]

I think it's important to clearly define the terms sex and gender.

It really isn’t.

It’s not an important subject. It affects practically no one. It is not worthy of holidays, study programs, or government grants.

Dress how you want to dress, screw who you want to screw, but stop pretending it’s brave, praiseworthy, or even interesting to normal people.


You’re not curing cancer.

 

[Blaster]

I had a guy tell me about the time he hustled what he thought was a woman at a sports bar. They went to her place after drinking and dancing. He got a big surprise when she/he took off the panties.

 

[forkup]

No, I never said that.

You didn't?

Social media and even mainstream media has conditioned them to believe that boys dressing up as girls and going into a women’s sports team is normal or at least widely accepted. They have been taught that it is evil and bigoted to express discomfort being required to undress under the male gaze as a condition of playing sports.

This not you? Not you saying being trans is "not normal" and that this viewpoint should be specifically taught in shools?

No, I never said that. As long as a trans person mind their own business, I’m I am happy to mind my own business.

Really? This not you?

We need our schools to unteach that lesson. We need to vote for school board members who believe the same thing. Adults make decisions for children all the time. It is our duty, in fact.

It seems to it very much is your business. It also betrays in my opinion that for all your protestation it's about woman's safety and "what about the children" it's simply YOU feeling that being trans means you should be stigmatized.

Of course, there are no bigger demanders of conformity than those who claim to support “trans rights.” Those who support diversity equity and inclusion have never wanted diversity of opinion.

I don't demand you conform or share my opinion. That's why I make it a point to ask you to give your opinion, and how you support it, using a whole set of rules I impose on myself, in order to make it more difficult to simply dismiss it.

 

[forkup]

It really isn’t.

It’s not an important subject. It affects practically no one. It is not worthy of holidays, study programs, or government grants.

Dress how you want to dress, screw who you want to screw, but stop pretending it’s brave, praiseworthy, or even interesting to normal people.


You’re not curing cancer.

I don't think 1,6 million people in America alone qualifies as "no one."

And I agree with your entire third paragraph. The problem is that that belief is not shared by most people on the right and in fact, is a major wedge issue.

 

[forkup]

Either be a gay or a lesbian. Transsexuals try to deceive straight men into having sex.

As far as trolling goes, this one is at least witty. Good job.

 

[fncceo]

I don't think 1,6 million people in America alone qualifies as "no one."

There are 350 million Americans

There are that many or more model train enthusiasts, fly fishermen, or collectors of Lego mini-figures.

While significant to those people who are selling N-gauge trains, fishing tackle, or original in-box figures, they are boring and uninteresting to other 348.4 Million Americans and no, we don't want to hear about your hobby.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Why not? I don't believe we SHOULD have women and girls' sports. I believe because of the nature of woman and girls sports would separate automatically no matter of my opinion.

Sports are not found in nature, they are inventions of humanity.

The rules separate the sexes in most sports. If you say that we should not have men and women’s sports, then you are effectively advocating at women’s sports be abandoned, banished and outlawed. So very very few women would be playing sports at all.

Ironically, this is one thing that the left got right when they pushed for more girls and women’s sports back in the 70s and 80s. Now they are throwing all that away for “transwomen“ with 5 o’clock shadows and Adams apples.

The contention is, as it was from the beginning, who would qualify as a girl in that scenario.

I don’t know what beginning you are talking about but for most of my school and adult life nobody was confused about what girls and women were.

Is it your contention now that anyone who expresses that they are female should be allowed to play on women and girls teams, no matter what their appearance or what they say other than that?

 

[alang1216]

So a grown man using a restroom based on SEX, and its the girls that have to come up with a reason why he shouldnt be in there?
Really?

I don't know what you think goes on in a woman's rest room but no one is exposing themselves to anyone else (that would be a crime). I've been to restaurants that have coed restrooms. No urinals, only stalls (exactly like women's bathrooms), and no one, male or female have problems with it.

What harm is it for the male to use the male restroom?
They are special rights no matter how you mentally ill cosplayers try to spin it.

I would not have wanted to explain to my son why someone dressed as a woman was in the men's room.

 

[alang1216]

An interesting idea.

One of my biggest peeves with this whole deal is that we who are not on the fringe have allowed this to go on and haven’t protested it more strongly. Every time it happened, school board should’ve lost the next election.

In other words adults have a duty to protect these kids from their locker rooms being taken over by males and to protect them from even having to express their opinion about it.

If we did, I believe the majority of girls would say no. Of course I don’t want to dress in front of boys in the locker room. But, I could be wrong. Social media and even mainstream media has conditioned them to believe that boys dressing up as girls and going into a women’s sports team is normal or at least widely accepted. They have been taught that it is evil and bigoted to express discomfort being required to undress under the male gaze as a condition of playing sports.

We need our schools to unteach that lesson. We need to vote for school board members who believe the same thing. Adults make decisions for children all the time. It is our duty, in fact.

Is sexual attraction the issue? Should lesbians be banned from woman's locker rooms and gay men banned from men's rooms?

 

[Seymour Flops]

You didn't?

This not you? Not you saying being trans is "not normal" and that this viewpoint should be specifically taught in shools?

Really? This not you?

No. I was the one who said that we should unteach the lesson that it is normal for boys to dress as girls AND GO INTO WOMEN’S LOCKER ROOMS. I don’t know why you left that part out

Or do I?

Girls are currently being taught that they are horrible bigots if they don’t want disrobe under the male gaze in their locker room.

That lesson absolutely needs to be untaught.

It seems to it very much is your business. It also betrays in my opinion that for all your protestation it's about woman's safety and "what about the children" it's simply YOU feeling that being trans means you should be stigmatized.

Then you are imagining yourself reading my mind instead of my words. I don’t know how to provide evidence of what I’m thinking other than my words which you are ignoring.

I don't demand you conform or share my opinion. That's why I make it a point to ask you to give your opinion, and how you support it, using a whole set of rules I impose on myself, in order to make it more difficult to simply dismiss it.

Yes, and I am asking you your opinion.

You’re answering question which is more than I can say for most of your fellow supporters of men in women’s spaces.

One stand out that you did not answer:

You said that the person is trans enough to use the bathroom of the opposite gender if they feel that they are the opposite gender. My question was how does a person in charge of a public bathroom determine the feelings of a person entering the bathroom?

To repeat the example I offered. A restaurant manager sees an obvious male about to walk into the women’s bathroom. How does he know if that man feels like a woman or is foreign or illiterate and is inadvertantly going into the wrong bathroom?

Which brings up an additional question: should we even have male and female bathrooms? Why not put a sign on both the mail and a female bathroom that simply says “restroom.”

What’s the point of separating the sexes if we don’t separate the sexes?

 

[forkup]

other than my words

Then you are imagining yourself reading my mind instead of my words.

These are your words.

conditioned them to believe that boys dressing up as girls and going into a women’s sports team is normal

Hereby clearly implying that it shouldn't be normal. These are your words. There's nothing wrong with my reading comprehension. Nor my memory, that is capable of recalling what was said.

One stand out that you did not answer. You said that the person is trans enough to use the bathroom of the ox gender if they feel that they are the opposite gender. My question was how does a person in charge of a public bathroom? determine the feelings of a person entering the bathroom.

No, you missed my answer.

This is actually a good point. My honest answer is that I don't know, and we probably should be skeptical of people who claim to be trans who have taken no actual steps to transition walking into female spaces.

 

[TNHarley]

I would not have wanted to explain to my son why someone dressed as a woman was in the men's room.

But the other way around is fine GTFO
And the "restroom" issue isnt just about restrooms. It includes locker rooms and such. Stop being do disingenuous.

 

[forkup]

There are 350 million Americans

There are that many or more model train enthusiasts, fly fishermen, or collectors of Lego mini-figures.

While significant to those people who are selling N-gauge trains, fishing tackle, or original in-box figures, they are boring and uninteresting to other 348.4 Million Americans and no, we don't want to hear about your hobby.

None of those other "hobbies" you mentioned are claimed to be not just wrong but to be actively legislated against and marginalized.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Is sexual attraction the issue? Should lesbians be banned from woman's locker rooms and gay men banned from men's rooms?

It’s a fair question, but it is easily answered.

I having a person of the same sex be attracted to you as part of life. A girl is in no more danger from a lesbian in the locker room then from a straight girl who just doesn’t particularly like her.

A woman or a girl Having a female-attracted male watching her Undress is a completely different thing. It’s ridiculous for anyone to pretend they don’t see the danger in that.

 

[HeyNorm]

Who do you think is more at risk of rape. A woman coinhabiting a prison with a trans woman? Or a trans woman in a male jail?

Of getting pregnant?

Gosh, ya got me.