Flashback: John Kerry Predicts The Arctic Will Be "Ice Free" By 2014 (This Is From June 25, 2009)

[Dante Reawakened]

How did what I wrote in post #60 ignore human contribution?

"But there's no money to be made off of that because no one has the stomach to swallow that medicine or the courage to speak out about it." -- that's a seriously crazy argument.

But then again, you have so much courage to go with your knowledge.

 

[ding]

So you are using the empirical climate data from the geologic record ? Where did that data come from? How can you trust that data if it's produced by the very same people you're attacking?

The data is from the paleoclimate community. This work was performed to understand the geology of the planet. It's not controversial data. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm attacking flawed models and flawed science.

The geologic record is littered with examples of warming and cooling trends that were not caused by CO2 or orbital forcing. Littered with them. Filthy with them. Climate fluctuations and environmental uncertainty are hallmarks of our bipolar glaciated world because of how each pole is thermally isolated. Climate fluctuations increased dramtically after the planet transitioned to an icehouse planet.

 

[ding]

"But there's no money to be made off of that because no one has the stomach to swallow that medicine or the courage to speak out about it." -- that's a seriously crazy argument.

But then again, you have so much courage to go with your knowledge.

Only if you take it out of context from the complete statement.

I have a slightly different take... humans are affecting climate but not because of the GHG effect of CO2 - which is over exaggerated due to flawed models which more than triple the GHG effect of CO2 through nebulous claims of net positive feedback - but because of deforestation and urbanization which affect albedo. But there's no money to be made off of that because no one has the stomach to swallow that medicine or the courage to speak out about it. So instead they preach to western industrialized nations about the evils of CO2 when their emissions have been declining for almost two decades and ignore where the real growth of carbon emissions are occurring; developing and emerging countries with low per capita carbon emissions. There's way too much bias and emotion in the climate science community which is clouding their ability to be objective.

 

[ding]

"But there's no money to be made off of that because no one has the stomach to swallow that medicine or the courage to speak out about it." -- that's a seriously crazy argument.

But then again, you have so much courage to go with your knowledge.

There isn't one science based argument that you can make that I haven't though of and considered. Not one. So I'm really looking forward to your continued participation in the environmental forum. Your participation makes it a target rich environment.

 

[ding]

"But there's no money to be made off of that because no one has the stomach to swallow that medicine or the courage to speak out about it." -- that's a seriously crazy argument.

But then again, you have so much courage to go with your knowledge.

Did you know you can read the temperature threshold for glaciation at each pole straight from the oxygen isotope curve?

It's actually really easy. Would you like to try?

 

[ding]

"And this is looking not as extreme as we've seen in some recent years, like the record low in 2012," okay

The empirical climate data from the geologic record shows that during glacial periods there can be warming trends and that during interglacial period there can be cooling trends. See all that saw tooth behavior? Those are climate fluctuations. You know... like the one we are experiencing now that you are convinced it's because of CO2. It's not. It's just more of the same climate variations that have been going ever since the planet transitioned from a greenhouse planet to an icehouse planet.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

There isn't one science based argument that you can make that I haven't though of and considered. Not one. So I'm really looking forward to your continued participation in the environmental forum. Your participation makes it a target rich environment.

your arguments here seem more about poor little picked on industrialized nations being blamed, for the evils of industrialized or emerging nations.

I'm curious: what do your rants about the GHG effect of CO2 have to do with Kerry's speech?

A melting Arctic is driving up carbon dioxide emissions, new US government report says - Bellona.org

The Arctic is undergoing a profound and rapid shift into a new condition, one that is greener, features less ice, warmer temperatures and which emits greenhouse gasses on par with several industrial nations due to melting permafrost, according to a new US government report released this week.

bellona.org

 

[Dante Reawakened]

Did you know you can read the temperature threshold for glaciation at each pole straight from the oxygen isotope curve?

It's actually really easy. Would you like to try?

View attachment 751076

what is your argument? What are you trying to prove here? Are you a climate scientist or a Keyboard scientist?

 

[Sunsettommy]

you ranted and raved about a chart showing something about 2007. Then I see a low lower than 2007 in 2012? Kerry was speaking of the “Ice Free Arctic Summer” and not “ Ice Free Arctic” ... you appear to be saying it's all nothing to worry about, when the source/export you're hiding behind does not take that stance

You're a Keyboard Expert here.

The chart I posted is about the MINIMUM summer sea ice level for the year you idiot!

POST 64

The Summer of 2012 was especially low because of a massive Arctic Summer storm wiped out a lot of thin ice no one disputes it except maybe you?

Here is what John Kerry stated in April 2021:

“In five years, scientists predict we will have the first ice-free Arctic summer, that exposes more ocean to sunlight,”

LINK

Meanwhile I posted a link showing the numerous low to no summer sea ice predictions made 10-15 years ago all of them wrong and especially not below the 3.5 level which is a lot higher than the Wadham definition of no summer sea ice of 1 million sq. miles or less level.

LINK for the rest.

=====

I have repeatedly posted that it has already happened for long periods of time during the interglacial period and posted a link to a group of published science papers talking about little to NO SUMMER ice in the arctic in the past.

You ignored the number of published science research I have posted then claim I don't follow the science; you are running in circles because you are clearly ignorant of scientists say.

 

[ding]

your arguments here seem more about poor little picked on industrialized nations being blamed, for the evils of industrialized or emerging nations.

I'm curious: what do your rants about the GHG effect of CO2 have to do with Kerry's speech?

A melting Arctic is driving up carbon dioxide emissions, new US government report says - Bellona.org

The Arctic is undergoing a profound and rapid shift into a new condition, one that is greener, features less ice, warmer temperatures and which emits greenhouse gasses on par with several industrial nations due to melting permafrost, according to a new US government report released this week.

bellona.org

No. My argument was that CO2 is not responsible for catastrophic global warming. What future warming they are predicting will be much less than they claim because water vapor isn't a net positive feedback, it's a net negative feedback. AND any warming that is due to man is primarily from deforestation and urbanization which affects the albedo of the planet.

 

[ding]

what is your argument? What are you trying to prove here? Are you a climate scientist or a Keyboard scientist?

My argument is that they have falsely attributed a natural warming event - which the geologic record is littered with - to atmospheric CO2. And that their predictions are exaggerated because they incorrectly model the affects of water vapor which according to their models triples the warming from CO2.

I'm an engineer (retired). What are you?

 

[Sunsettommy]

"And this is looking not as extreme as we've seen in some recent years, like the record low in 2012," okay

It was indeed low that year but hasn't been close to that low ever since:

the decline has stopped but as at a lower level than in the 1990's.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

There isn't one science based argument that you can make that I haven't though of and considered. Not one. So I'm really looking forward to your continued participation in the environmental forum. Your participation makes it a target rich environment.

your arguments here seem more about poor little picked on industrialized nations being blamed, for the evils of industrialized or emerging nations.

I'm curious: what do your rants about the GHG effect of CO2 have to do with Kerry's speech?

Remember Ole FrankenKerry?


I think he's bought 6 more ocean front beach houses since this with all the money he laundered from Ukraine.

Have the left ever been right about anything? What?

“‘Climate change is real’ is a meaningless phrase used repeatedly by activists to convince the public that a climate catastrophe is looming and humanity is the cause. Neither of these fears is justified. Global climate changes occur all the time due to natural causes and the human impact still remains impossible to distinguish from this natural ‘noise.’” -- Senator James Inhofe

Inhofe added that he believes "the ones that were responsible for the whole global warming movement was the United Nations." And even though the scientific research into climate change actually helps to explain the unusual weather patterns behind the recent arctic chill in much of the U.S., Inhofe seems to think that the cold weather actually supports his theory, apparently because it, too, makes a good anecdote. Those ships trapped in the antarctic ice also make a good anecdote for Inhofe, because one of the vessels was carrying scientists who were researching the effects of climate change. Funny!

It's Pretty Cold, So Senator Inhofe is Rambling About Climate Change

With the Polar Vortex threatening us all this week, Senator Jim Inhofe took to the Senate floor on Monday to run through just about every reason he personally does not think climate change is a real thing.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[Dante Reawakened]

It was indeed low that year but hasn't been close to that low ever since:

the decline has stopped but as at a lower level than in the 1990's.

snapshot in time.

in twenty years will it have stayed stop? Not sure of your logic here

 

[ding]

your arguments here seem more about poor little picked on industrialized nations being blamed, for the evils of industrialized or emerging nations.

I'm curious: what do your rants about the GHG effect of CO2 have to do with Kerry's speech?

“‘Climate change is real’ is a meaningless phrase used repeatedly by activists to convince the public that a climate catastrophe is looming and humanity is the cause. Neither of these fears is justified. Global climate changes occur all the time due to natural causes and the human impact still remains impossible to distinguish from this natural ‘noise.’” -- Senator James Inhofe

It's Pretty Cold, So Senator Inhofe is Rambling About Climate Change

With the Polar Vortex threatening us all this week, Senator Jim Inhofe took to the Senate floor on Monday to run through just about every reason he personally does not think climate change is a real thing.

www.theatlantic.com

I disagree. My argument is what I have been telling you it is for the last 3 posts.

 

[Dante Reawakened]

So, what is this about? What is he crazed about?

 

[Dante Reawakened]

I disagree. My argument is what I have been telling you it is for the last 3 posts.

you're far too much like Senator Inhofe

 

[ding]

snapshot in time.

in twenty years will it have stayed stop? Not sure of your logic here

In ten years their prediction of sea level rise tripling will be proven wrong. In 30 years everything will be proven wrong by colder temperatures because climate fluctuations and environmental uncertainty are hallmarks of our bipolar glaciated world.

 

[ding]

you're far too much like Senator Inhofe

I'm more like Tigger. I'm the only one.

How do you like my shoes?

 

[Foxfyre]

Remember Ole FrankenKerry?


I think he's bought 6 more ocean front beach houses since this with all the money he laundered from Ukraine.

Have the left ever been right about anything? What?

Al Gore completely trashed Kerry's proclamation though when he extended the time to I think 2013 or thereabouts?

But Gore isn't as concerned about arctic ice now as much as he expects deadly rain bombs to do us in.