Fix health care and pay off the national debt in 6 years with the savings!!!

[francoHFW]

Under socialism, the government is the one that controls the prices, making it affordable for all.

?

except under socialism 120 million starved to death because they could not afford food.

nothing is affordable on Cuba or Venezuela

That's communism. Except Venezuela. And 3rd world messes...

 

[usmbguest5318]

Fix health care and pay off the national debt in 6 years with the savings

Okay...I'll bite. Show me the math that makes that be so. Be sure to include how the needed trillions of dollars transfer from privately held accounts to the national treasury so the debt can be paid.

as capitalism brings down cost $3 trillion a year govt can raise taxes that amount to pay of the national debt in 6 years. When debt is paid it can drop taxes $3 trillion a year.

All well and good....where's the math that supports that hoped-for sequence of events?....I'm asking for something credible that has a clearly and well explained methodology for how it arrives at it's projections.....something that can be presented in pro forma P&L/balance sheet form, or at least as a supplemental schedule to either of those types of document.

You see, I'm open to all sorts of ideas, but only if their advocates can put forth enough information so the ideas hold up under rigorous scrutiny. There's a fiction section in the bookstores and libraries for political pipe dreams. I don't need that as public policy proposals.

 

[CowboyTed]

The most expensive Health systems in the world are private..

if this is true why are you so afraid to present your best example??

Italy... Spend just over a third of what US spends and get worse results...

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

U.S. Health-Care System Ranks as One of the Least-Efficient

 

[Mr Natural]

How much cheaper?

And under capitalism, her pre-existing condition will render her ineligible.

But under capitalism, she could get out the phone book (or use the internet if she's hip) and start calling around to see who charges what for heart condition service.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The most expensive Health systems in the world are private..

if this is true why are you so afraid to present your best example??

Italy... Spend just over a third of what US spends and get worse results...

List of countries by total health expenditure per capita - Wikipedia

U.S. Health-Care System Ranks as One of the Least-Efficient

How much sense can a liberal make?????
Cowboy Ted said most expensive health systems in world are private. When pressed for his best example he said : Italy??

Italy's healthcare system is a regionally organised National Health Service (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale, SSN) that provides universal coverage largely free of charge at the point of delivery. The Ministry of Health is the main institution responsible for public health at the national level.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

How much cheaper?

And under capitalism, her pre-existing condition will render her ineligible.

But under capitalism, she could get out the phone book (or use the internet if she's hip) and start calling around to see who charges what for heart condition service.

exactly! Imagine how much car prices would be if the buyer did not care about price!! A simple concept but one way over a liberal's head, sadly for America.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You see, I'm open to all sorts of ideas, but only if their advocates can put forth enough information.

You still need more information to know that West Germany did better than East Germany or that Florida does better than Cuba?? Or that China eliminated 40% of the planets poverty when it switched to Republican capitalism??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Under socialism, the government is the one that controls the prices, making it affordable for all.

?

except under socialism 120 million starved to death because they could not afford food.

nothing is affordable on Cuba or Venezuela

That's communism. Except Venezuela. And 3rd world messes...

Yes that's communism or socialism. Lets not forget that Bernie Sanders vacationed in the USSR and that our liberals spied for Stalin and gave him the bomb and that govt is never big enough for a liberal no matter how big it is thus make them pure communists at heart..

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

McCarran–Ferguson Act - Wikipedia

yes making competition illegal in the usa. NOw do you understand?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

And as a moron, you lack the common sense to know that your ideas will never work.

actually Cuba/Florida , East/West Germany and 132 other examples say capitalism works far better than socialism.

 

[usmbguest5318]

You see, I'm open to all sorts of ideas, but only if their advocates can put forth enough information.

You still need more information to know that West Germany did better than East Germany or that Florida does better than Cuba?? Or that China eliminated 40% of the planets poverty when it switched to Republican capitalism??

Dude, do you have a direct answer to the question I posed or do you not? If you don't, you don't. That is what it is. Just say so.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You see, I'm open to all sorts of ideas, but only if their advocates can put forth enough information.

You still need more information to know that West Germany did better than East Germany or that Florida does better than Cuba?? Or that China eliminated 40% of the planets poverty when it switched to Republican capitalism??

Dude, do you have a direct answer to the question I posed or do you not? If you don't, you don't. That is what it is. Just say so.

Cuba/Florida, East/West Germany, Red China/modern China is not a direct answer?. Do you think Cubans can afford more stuff than Floridians???? Do you understand now??

 

[Mr Natural]

exactly! Imagine how much car prices would be if the buyer did not care about price!! A simple concept but one way over a liberal's head, sadly for America.

No, imagine how much car prices would be if you had to buy a car or die.

 

[usmbguest5318]

You see, I'm open to all sorts of ideas, but only if their advocates can put forth enough information.

You still need more information to know that West Germany did better than East Germany or that Florida does better than Cuba?? Or that China eliminated 40% of the planets poverty when it switched to Republican capitalism??

Dude, do you have a direct answer to the question I posed or do you not? If you don't, you don't. That is what it is. Just say so.

Cuba/Florida, East/West Germany, Red China/modern China is not a direct answer?. Do you think Cubans can afford more stuff than Floridians???? Do you understand now??

No it is not. I asked you for the math

.where's the math that supports that hoped-for sequence of events?

For example, when I was recently discussing the net economic impact of illegal immigration, I shared the math that supports the finding that illegal immigration has a net economic impact of something in the range of $400B on the US. economy. That math -- costs and benefits -- was found in this document.

I'm not asking you to independently develop the math that supports your claim, I'm just looking to see the math that gives it genuine credibility. I'd be equally content to see your (or someone else's) sound, rigorous inductive argument based on accepted theory(s).

You don't have to write a dissertation or something. I just want to see something serious and credible. Link a scholarly paper if you want. I'll read it. I read all the one's I link. One more isn't going to matter, especially if it provides content that I've not come by in the past 30 odd years of my professional life reading economics papers. (But make sure you've read it before you point me to it.)

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

I'd be equally content to see your (or someone else's) sound, rigorous inductive argument based on accepted theory(s).

when China switched to capitalism they instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty. Before, the Chinese were starving to death and 60 million died. Now they can afford a whole lot of health care thanks to capitalism. Do you understand??

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

exactly! Imagine how much car prices would be if the buyer did not care about price!! A simple concept but one way over a liberal's head, sadly for America.

No, imagine how much car prices would be if you had to buy a car or die.

since prices are published before you die, according to OP, you could buy the least expensive health care and perhaps have enough left over for a European vacation.

 

[usmbguest5318]

I'd be equally content to see your (or someone else's) sound, rigorous inductive argument based on accepted theory(s).

when China switched to capitalism they instantly eliminated 40% of the entire planets poverty. Before, the Chinese were starving to death and 60 million died. Now they can afford a whole lot of health care thanks to capitalism. Do you understand??

Yes, I understand quite well what you wrote. I understood it the first time you wrote it. I knew then that it also is completely irrelevant to this discussion. Why?

• The circumstance of the Chinese event pattern you identified is that of a nation, China, going from no capitalism to comparatively unbridled capitalism. No similarly dramatic transition is even possible in the U.S.
• The poverty metric you note is in fact that of China, which has something like 20% of the planet's population, and it's the result of the transformation noted in the prior bullet point. That's all well and good, but

Additionally, I am all but certain you have no idea of how China's healthcare system works. I can assure you it is not a laissez-faire industry, it's not even close.

I'm wondering now whether you understand what I'm asking for. Now I don't know why the immigration paper I linked didn't give you a general sense of the nature of information I've asked for, but for whatever reason it did not. I will try one more time to clarify what it is I've asked you to share with us....

In your OP you wrote:

All we have to do is switch our health care system from socialism to capitalism and use the saving to pay off the debt. We'd save about $3 trillion by switching to capitalism so entire national debt could be paid off in 6 years

I responded by saying, "Okay...I'll bite. Show me the math that makes that be so. Be sure to include how the needed trillions of dollars transfer from privately held accounts to the national treasury so the debt can be paid."

You wrote in response to my post:

as capitalism brings down cost $3 trillion a year govt can raise taxes that amount to pay of the national debt in 6 years. When debt is paid it can drop taxes $3 trillion a year.

Now I don't know what makes you think the U.S. is not a capitalist nation such that it could "switch to capitalism," but, frankly, I don't care because that's just a line of discussion I'm not even going to entertain having with you, much less have.

The math I'm looking for, however, doesn't depend on whether the U.S. is or isn't a capitalist country. The math I'm asking for is the math that shows the following:

• The U.S.-specific health care transformation events that will in turn save $3 trillion when current total U.S. healthcare spending is $3.2 trillion.
• A summary level detailing of where you think $3 trillion in savings is going to come.
• The figures and accompanying rationale that backs-up your projected savings.

Simply put, I'm not about to accept your $3 trillion in savings assertion merely because you say it is so. If what you say is indeed plausible, it seems to me you need to schedule a meeting with Trump, and some people in Congress, because I can assure you, they aren't aware of any plan or approach that will yield savings on the scale you've claimed.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Simply put, I'm not about to accept your $3 trillion in savings assertion merely because you say it is so.

you have never heard of East /West Germany? North/South Korea? Cuba/Florida?

you don't understand that when people shop with their own money they spend far less than shopping with someone else's money??

You don't understand that under daily competitive pressure to survive a business will get more and more efficient with lower and lower prices whereas under no pressure they will not?? What is wrong with you?


in 1980 you paid 10 years pay in Hungary for a car without a gas gage(dip stick instead) that had to be backed up a hill because of a gravity fed carburetor.
They employed engineers by the 1000's all of whom swore that was the best they could do.

it is not until you have had years and years of free Republican competition that you have any idea how many engineers are needed and at what salary to produce what quality.

Can you understand the analogy?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

How much cheaper?
figure 80% cheaper based on Cuba/Florida, East /West Germany and 132 other examples

Bullshit! Provide a link other than you constant babbling!

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You see, I'm open to all sorts of ideas, but only if their advocates can put forth enough information.

You still need more information to know that West Germany did better than East Germany or that Florida does better than Cuba?? Or that China eliminated 40% of the planets poverty when it switched to Republican capitalism??

Dude, do you have a direct answer to the question I posed or do you not? If you don't, you don't. That is what it is. Just say so.

Cuba/Florida, East/West Germany, Red China/modern China is not a direct answer?. Do you think Cubans can afford more stuff than Floridians???? Do you understand now??

The average Cuban is dirt poor and barely surviving. My pastor is Cuban. He was a psychologist in Cuba and came to the US to be a pastor in our small church. Although we do not pay a lot, he is rolling in the dough compared to Cuba where they do not have enough toothbrushes and toothpaste for their kids.