Five myths about Libertarianism

[Foxfyre]

I'm going to lay odds that Thanatos cannot make an argument for any major issue in which libertarians hold the same view as leftists/progressives/modern liberals. He did give me a list of issues that he said both groups viewed the same, but when I refuted each one, he ignored the answers.

But THAT is what so many leftists/progressives/modern liberals do. They come up with these assertions of fact and are completely unable to back them up with any argument or substance of fact.

I have never known a libertarian, however, who was incapable of providing a rationale for his/her conviction. Libertarians at least have a good grounding in why they believe what they believe.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

You guys really shouldn't try to seriously debate with Corky. It's better to just mock the guy for being hair brained.

Or maybe you all should just own up to be stupid kids who think they can have it all and NOT have to pay for it.

Yes, Cork. libertarians are known for their wish to use government as a tool to acquire free stuff. I mean, look at all the libertarians in here who support welfare/warfare...


You lack the mental fortitude for these threads, Cork. Now, refresh the beer cooler. I'll be swinging by to get beer as im leaving work early again.

 

[thanatos144]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

 

[thanatos144]

Fact it Libertarianism just means person who like to act superior for not being in a certain party....Even though they ARE the MOST PARTISAN group next to progressives.

I am a Libertarian. I am registered with the LPUSA, I VOTE Libertarian 90% of the time.

Still, have you EVER seen me side with the Progressive here? I mean even once? I may not always side with the Republicans - but have you EVER seen me side with the authoritarian left?

Before you make the claim, be ready to back it up with a link...

Notice the use of the word MOST and not ALL

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

There it is. A nice healthy helping of nonsense. Some good sentence structure there, only some minor grammar and spelling errors. You did pretty good overall.

Asst manager? I thought you got the night shift slot?

 

[NightFox]

As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements.

Explaining the rational behind each side of he question is ambiguous to you? what unambiguous props do you require? charts, graphs, coloring books, GPS coordinates?

What is it that you do not understand regarding what I posted about the libertarian positions on abortion?

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party.

Argument by adjective sprinkled with personal attacks, more childishness. Makes one wonder if violence is simply your preferred answer to solving problems or your only answer to solving problems.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people.

What libertarian made the argument for legalizing drugs "so we can have more junkies and stupid people" ? I've seen plenty of libertarians (including myself) make a rational argument for legalization based on individual liberty grounds but the one you're asserting is completely out of far right field.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

Hate to break it to you but you're the only one here running around in circles..... I think it's pretty safe to say the others participating in this thread are just wondering how long it'll take you to pass out from self inflicted dizziness.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Cork can do this all day, Fox

 

[NightFox]

Cork can do this all day, Fox

Naw, he's creeping up to the edge of /dev/null, just wanted to give him a fair opportunity to pull himself from the precipice, after all he seems like a nice enough chap just completely confused.

 

[thanatos144]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

There it is. A nice healthy helping of nonsense. Some good sentence structure there, only some minor grammar and spelling errors. You did pretty good overall.

Asst manager? I thought you got the night shift slot?

And this is what people judge libertarianism by.

 

[thanatos144]

As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements.

Explaining the rational behind each side of he question is ambiguous to you? what unambiguous props do you require? charts, graphs, coloring books, GPS coordinates?

What is it that you do not understand regarding what I posted about the libertarian positions on abortion?

Even the party platform doesn't take a stand on baby killing like you seem to consistently take their lead.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party.

Argument by adjective sprinkled with personal attacks, more childishness. Makes one wonder if violence is simply your preferred answer to solving problems or your only answer to solving problems.
I have given my answer to foreign policy several times. It is never running from our problems like you advocate. I never said violence is the answer ether but you as normal assume it does. Very much like a democrat does.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people.

What libertarian made the argument for legalizing drugs "so we can have more junkies and stupid people" ? I've seen plenty of libertarians (including myself) make a rational argument for legalization based on individual liberty grounds but the one you're asserting is completely out of far right field. Perhaps you need to read the party platform on the issue of illegal narcotics cause you seem confused about it.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

Hate to break it to you but you're the only one here running around in circles..... I think it's pretty safe to say the others participating in this thread are just wondering how long it'll take you to pass out from self inflicted dizziness.

Again thanks for showing I was correct in how futile it is to debate a partisan ideologue such as yourself.

 

[TakeAStepBack]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

There it is. A nice healthy helping of nonsense. Some good sentence structure there, only some minor grammar and spelling errors. You did pretty good overall.

Asst manager? I thought you got the night shift slot?

And this is what people judge libertarianism by.

Onlly people who are intellectually bankrupt, Cork.

 

[Contumacious]

For the less educated posters on the board, and for the curious.

That's the propaganda, isn't it? If you don't go for it, you're "less educated". When the truth is that it just doesn't work. While nearly everyone has libertarian leanings and doesn't like to be told what to do, the truly educated realize, if the more radical elements of libertarianism came to fruition, it would be a disaster on the scale of Marxism.

So radical freedom can ...somehow....transform itself into communism .....interesting......how so?


.

 

[thanatos144]

For the less educated posters on the board, and for the curious.

That's the propaganda, isn't it? If you don't go for it, you're "less educated". When the truth is that it just doesn't work. While nearly everyone has libertarian leanings and doesn't like to be told what to do, the truly educated realize, if the more radical elements of libertarianism came to fruition, it would be a disaster on the scale of Marxism.

So radical freedom can ...somehow....transform itself into communism .....interesting......how so?


.

Because a scared people follow those who will keep them safer. Anarchy leads to Chaos and that leads to fear and then that leads to a people using that to make themselves dictator.... It is why the KGB was so hip on Anarchy.

 

[Foxfyre]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

Okay, NOW you are arguing a point and not just spouting nonsensical platitudes. THAT is the Thanatos I have come to know and love.

But where you are making your mistake, as many do, is to equate a Political Party that has a particular agenda with a philosophy or principle or belief system which is not the same thing at all.

Most people who vote Republican are not advocates of everything on the Republican Party platform. Probably most Democrats are not advocates of everything on the Democratic Party platform. And for damn sure, most libertarians don't support everything on the Libertarian Party Platform, because the Libertarian Party makes the same mistake as the others do--wanting government to enforce their convictions rather than change hearts and minds of the people.

Most libertarians want no part of government enforcement of values and that's why many libertarians do not register as Libertarians with the Libertarian Party. Most libertarians are not members of the Libertarian Party.

And while Ron Paul is great guy and I admire him much, I, a libertarian (little "L"), think he has enough screwy and/or unsustainable ideas that I would never vote for him to be in high office. He does make a good Congressman for his district and we need men of conscience in govenment even if they are not quite presidential material.

Also I as a libertarian register Republican in my state because that is the only chance I have to make a difference in the primary elections in my state that includes opposing the liberal Democrats. I have not had any desire to join the Libertarian Party that I cannot support on some issues but there are members of that Party that I also admire and respect.

So let's do agree on one thing.

Political Party = a specific agenda.

Principles and convictions identifiable with a particular ideology may or may not agree with the agenda of a political party.

 

[thanatos144]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

Okay, NOW you are arguing a point and not just spouting nonsensical platitudes. THAT is the Thanatos I have come to know and love.

But where you are making your mistake, as many do, is to equate a Political Party that has a particular agenda with a philosophy or principle or belief system which is not the same thing at all.

Most people who vote Republican are not advocates of everything on the Republican Party platform. Probably most Democrats are not advocates of everything on the Democratic Party platform. And for damn sure, most libertarians don't support everything on the Libertarian Party Platform, because the Libertarian Party makes the same mistake as the others do--wanting government to enforce their convictions rather than change hearts and minds of the people.

Most libertarians want no part of government enforcement of values and that's why many libertarians do not register as Libertarians with the Libertarian Party. Most libertarians are not members of the Libertarian Party.

And while Ron Paul is great guy and I admire him much, I, a libertarian (little "L"), think he has enough screwy and/or unsustainable ideas that I would never vote for him to be in high office. He does make a good Congressman for his district and we need men of conscience in govenment even if they are not quite presidential material.

Also I as a libertarian register Republican in my state because that is the only chance I have to make a difference in the primary elections in my state that includes opposing the liberal Democrats. I have not had any desire to join the Libertarian Party that I cannot support on some issues but there are members of that Party that I also admire and respect.

So let's do agree on one thing.

Political Party = a specific agenda.

Principles and convictions identifiable with a particular ideology may or may not agree with the agenda of a political party.

Its the people not the party? LOL Thats what I have been saying. Libertarianism is a selfish ideology. Yet some who call themselves libertarians are not selfish. Like conservatives that say they are republican. Now Libertarians are like the 60's idealists. Quite a bit of it sounds good but reality doesnt work that way. Like Marxism. No I am not saying Libertarians are communist I am saying it is like Marxism in that it looks good on paper yet in use it doesnt work. Some of it will....Yet not all of it.... You know why? People are different.

Look at the libertarians slamming me. Now we both know I like to poke at them cause they scream like little girls but look at how they are. They refuse to allow ANY differing view put forward. When it happens they personalize and attack. They scream that you dont know shit! you are a NeoCon! A authoritarian ! It is as if others are not allowed to state the obvious.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So after seeing how wildly different people's sense of what "Libertarianism" is, means and stands for, can we at least agree that:



Libertarianism is what EVERY person who calls themselves a libertarian say it is.

Libertarianism means everything or it means nothing depending on the libertarian you're addressing.

Libertarianism has all the consistency of water, and can fit into any container wishing to hold it.

I don't call myself a libertarian because idiots like you think labels define people, and I refuse to be defined. I do know that libertarians tend to be the most intelligent, and informed, people in any discussion. The evidence of this is the fact that you are on the other side.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Sex, Drugs, Abortion, Foreign policy, Size of government (one want huge state government the other huger federal), Resp0onsibility, Religion and about everything BUT taxes.

Libertarians, as a group, take no position on sex other than it is none of the federal government's business. Liberals want government to set the rules liberals want re sex and how it is expressed.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on abortion other than it should be a local matter of conscience and the federal government has no constitutional authority to regulate it in any way. Liberals want the federal government to make abortion legal everywhere for everybody, period.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on foreign policy other than the federal government should be strictly limited to its constitutional authority when it comes to foreign policy. Liberals put no constitutional restrictions on much of anything.

Libertarians, as a group, take no official position on drugs other than it is appropriate for the federal government to have some oversight over safety issues re imported products, but the legalization and use of drugs by the people should be decided at the local level. Those states or communities who want them should be able to have them. Those that don't should be able to make them illegal. The federal government should stay out of that. Liberals want the federal government to have total control.

Libertarians take the view that those who want religious symbols, displays, and other religious expression should be free to have them. Those who don't want them should be able to have a socail contract that keeps them out of the public venue. The federal government cannot dictate any matters of religion and has no constitutional authority to interfere with that. Many anti-religious liberals would have the federal government remove all religious evidence from everything.

Libertarians believe people should be allowed to do whatever they choose to be or do so long as it requires no contribution or participation by any others. Liberals do not trust people to make all their own choices and want the federal government to be in charge of much of that.

Liberals want government to be their protector, safety net, mommy, daddy, and available teat if they get into any kind of difficulty. Libertarians see a government that can solve our problems as a government that can and will take anything it wants from us and therefore wants people to work out their own solutions to their problems and deal with the consequences of the choices they make.

Libertarians want the federal government to be restricted to its constitutionally mandated functions and be involved in absolutely nothing else.

I see no similarities of any kind between modern American liberals and libertarians.

Lie to your self all you want but the MAJORITY of those calling themselves libertarians have the same stand as progressives on MOST issues.

Progressives think the government should regulate everything from war to who does business with whom. I bet you can't find anyone who calls themselves a libertarian who agrees with that.

 

[Gadawg73]

Good friend will be dead in a year if we are lucky as they said 6 months 3 months ago.
Watched the baseball game at his condo tonight.
He smokes twisty and has to obtain it illegally.
And that is fucked up beyond all reason.
Because of right wing kooks that force their shit on other people without using their brain to determine if someone is suffering or not.
That is what being a Libertarian is, allowing him to do that legally.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Good friend will be dead in a year if we are lucky as they said 6 months 3 months ago.
Watched the baseball game at his condo tonight.
He smokes twisty and has to obtain it illegally.
And that is fucked up beyond all reason.
Because of right wing kooks that force their shit on other people without using their brain to determine if someone is suffering or not.
That is what being a Libertarian is, allowing him to do that legally.

This is the perfect example of why I call you out every single time we get into a conversation, you are a partisan hack. Democrats are in charge right now, and Obama is about as far from the right wing as it is possible to get, but he actually ramped up the war on drugs when it comes to people using medical marijuana over what Bush was doing. Yet, for some reason that makes no sense, unless I assume you are a lying sack of shit, you blame the other side for what is happening.

 

[Foxfyre]

Last time I got into this argument I used the PARTY PLATFORM as evidence and you all ignored it and said " the party isnt the people" Or some such nonsense. As for Abortion Fox you again proved my point that libertarians dodge the question by giving ambiguous statements. The only difference being is at least Progressives have the balls to say they are for baby killing. Libertarians who support it just use the it is a state issue argument. As if the federal government has no say in trade between states or killing done in multiple states and Planned Parenthood falls under both.

The fact that MOST ( please notice that unlike you guys I say most not all ) of you support the cut and run cowardliness of the progressive democrat party. The main difference is libertarians also want to hide behind out borders and isolate us from the world because they fear other people. That last of course is more a Ron Paul libertarian thing.

All of you would love to see drugs legal so we can have more junkies and stupid people. The size of government is also a comparing point....Libertarians dont mind authoritarian government as long as it is STATE ran and not federal ran. Where as I would prefer smaller both.

Now we can run around circles here all day or you can actually admit most calling themselves libertarian have more in common with democrats then republicans.

One more thing on a completely separate beef.... Sicne when is punishing republicans for not seeing things like you more important then keeping a president we ALL know is far more dangerous to our freedoms?

Oh and [MENTION=29021]TakeAStepBack[/MENTION] I am done doing the childish back and forth with you. How about you grow up some and I will stop trying to stoop down to your childish level. We all know now that you think you are better then I because I work as a assistant manager at Circle K...You just happen to be wrong like most things you think.

Okay, NOW you are arguing a point and not just spouting nonsensical platitudes. THAT is the Thanatos I have come to know and love.

But where you are making your mistake, as many do, is to equate a Political Party that has a particular agenda with a philosophy or principle or belief system which is not the same thing at all.

Most people who vote Republican are not advocates of everything on the Republican Party platform. Probably most Democrats are not advocates of everything on the Democratic Party platform. And for damn sure, most libertarians don't support everything on the Libertarian Party Platform, because the Libertarian Party makes the same mistake as the others do--wanting government to enforce their convictions rather than change hearts and minds of the people.

Most libertarians want no part of government enforcement of values and that's why many libertarians do not register as Libertarians with the Libertarian Party. Most libertarians are not members of the Libertarian Party.

And while Ron Paul is great guy and I admire him much, I, a libertarian (little "L"), think he has enough screwy and/or unsustainable ideas that I would never vote for him to be in high office. He does make a good Congressman for his district and we need men of conscience in govenment even if they are not quite presidential material.

Also I as a libertarian register Republican in my state because that is the only chance I have to make a difference in the primary elections in my state that includes opposing the liberal Democrats. I have not had any desire to join the Libertarian Party that I cannot support on some issues but there are members of that Party that I also admire and respect.

So let's do agree on one thing.

Political Party = a specific agenda.

Principles and convictions identifiable with a particular ideology may or may not agree with the agenda of a political party.

Its the people not the party? LOL Thats what I have been saying. Libertarianism is a selfish ideology. Yet some who call themselves libertarians are not selfish. Like conservatives that say they are republican. Now Libertarians are like the 60's idealists. Quite a bit of it sounds good but reality doesnt work that way. Like Marxism. No I am not saying Libertarians are communist I am saying it is like Marxism in that it looks good on paper yet in use it doesnt work. Some of it will....Yet not all of it.... You know why? People are different.

Look at the libertarians slamming me. Now we both know I like to poke at them cause they scream like little girls but look at how they are. They refuse to allow ANY differing view put forward. When it happens they personalize and attack. They scream that you dont know shit! you are a NeoCon! A authoritarian ! It is as if others are not allowed to state the obvious.

Libertarianism (little "L") is not at all selfish. What is selfish about wanting people to have power over their own choices and destiny? And what further makes libertarians unselfish is that of all the philosophical groups, they are the most likely to recognize and identify unintended negative consequences. Liberals fancy themselves the most generous and altruistic of all the groups, and yet by selfishly promoting the society THEY think best, they are unwilling to acknowledge or address the unintended consequences of that very promotion. And of all groups they are the most likely to harm those they think or report they are helping.

That the libertarian recognizes that the fairest, most altruistic, most beneficial society is one in which the people are most free and most unhindered by self serving authoritarian government is not selfish. It is honest.