Fitzgeralds Joined In History

[PoliticalChic]

The inexcusable and unaccountable tragedy that occurred off the coast of Japan, costing the lives of seven American seamen, is remarkably similar to an earlier naval mishap.

Both involved a Fitzgerald, both resulted in calls for courts marshals, and both laid the blame on the commanders of the two vessels.




1.The USS Fitzgerald, named for Wm Fitzgerald, Vietnam hero, "collided with a merchant container ship....Barring a mechanical error—in these systems or, say, one ship's steering capacity—the collision likely resulted from a mistake, or a series of mistakes. "It's usually human error," ..."
https://www.wired.com/story/uss-fitzgerald-navy-destroyer-crash-collision-japan-acx-crystal/

2. " The Navy won't need to complete its findings to hold Cmdr. Benson responsible. He will surely lose his command forthwith. But there will no doubt be others whose performance during the incident will be found wanting, maybe even negligent. They will also be held to account. There may even be courts-martial that result."
There is a lot we know -- and don't know -- about the USS Fitzgerald collision - CNN.com





One had better hope that the commander is a wealthy Democrat.
Here's why:

3. In August, 1943, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was in charge of a patrol boat, and it was hit by a Japanese ship, and several of the crewmembers died.

"....Japan’s Amaqiri hit PT-109, leaving 11 crewmen floundering in the Pacific.
Kennedy was ultimately awarded the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, for gallantry in action.'
PT-109 sinks; Lieutenant Kennedy is instrumental in saving crew - Aug 01, 1943 - HISTORY.com

And he deserved it....for what happened after the fact.
But the above was the only part of the story.



4. This reported:

".... Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor."
John F. Kennedy | HistoryNet


5. Sooo....why did it happen?
Who was at fault?


a. "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SINKING, MANY NAVY MEN WERE BITTERLY CRITICAL OF KENNEDY AND HIS ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE LOSS OF PT-109. EVEN JFK’S OLDER BROTHER JOE WROTE:

“What I really want to know is where the hell were you when the destroyer hove into sight, and exactly what were your moves?”
Lieutenant Commander Jack Gibson, Warfield’s successor, was even tougher. “He lost the 109 through very poor organization of his crew,” Gibson later said.“Everything he did up until he was in the water was the wrong thing.”
JFK and PT 109: Negligent Commander or Courageous Leader?





Looks very much like Kennedy caused the events that led to the loss of life and the ship.
In fact, Kennedy expected to be court-marshaled....


Good luck to Cmdr. Benson.
He may end up running for President.

 

[bodecea]

Wow! This thread is hysterical! Trying so hard there, sweetie!

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow! This thread is hysterical! Trying so hard there, sweetie!

Please....articulate some point so I can shred it.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The inexcusable and unaccountable tragedy that occurred off the coast of Japan, costing the lives of seven American seamen, is remarkably similar to an earlier naval mishap.

Both involved a Fitzgerald, both resulted in calls for courts marshals, and both laid the blame on the commanders of the two vessels.




1.The USS Fitzgerald, named for Wm Fitzgerald, Vietnam hero, "collided with a merchant container ship....Barring a mechanical error—in these systems or, say, one ship's steering capacity—the collision likely resulted from a mistake, or a series of mistakes. "It's usually human error," ..."
https://www.wired.com/story/uss-fitzgerald-navy-destroyer-crash-collision-japan-acx-crystal/

2. " The Navy won't need to complete its findings to hold Cmdr. Benson responsible. He will surely lose his command forthwith. But there will no doubt be others whose performance during the incident will be found wanting, maybe even negligent. They will also be held to account. There may even be courts-martial that result."
There is a lot we know -- and don't know -- about the USS Fitzgerald collision - CNN.com





One had better hope that the commander is a wealthy Democrat.
Here's why:

3. In August, 1943, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was in charge of a patrol boat, and it was hit by a Japanese ship, and several of the crewmembers died.

"....Japan’s Amaqiri hit PT-109, leaving 11 crewmen floundering in the Pacific.
Kennedy was ultimately awarded the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, for gallantry in action.'
PT-109 sinks; Lieutenant Kennedy is instrumental in saving crew - Aug 01, 1943 - HISTORY.com

And he deserved it....for what happened after the fact.
But the above was the only part of the story.



4. This reported:

".... Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor."
John F. Kennedy | HistoryNet


5. Sooo....why did it happen?
Who was at fault?


a. "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SINKING, MANY NAVY MEN WERE BITTERLY CRITICAL OF KENNEDY AND HIS ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE LOSS OF PT-109. EVEN JFK’S OLDER BROTHER JOE WROTE:

“What I really want to know is where the hell were you when the destroyer hove into sight, and exactly what were your moves?”
Lieutenant Commander Jack Gibson, Warfield’s successor, was even tougher. “He lost the 109 through very poor organization of his crew,” Gibson later said.“Everything he did up until he was in the water was the wrong thing.”
JFK and PT 109: Negligent Commander or Courageous Leader?





Looks very much like Kennedy caused the events that led to the loss of life and the ship.
In fact, Kennedy expected to be court-marshaled....


Good luck to Cmdr. Benson.
He may end up running for President.

No Edmund Fitzgerald? What's up?

 

[bodecea]

Wow! This thread is hysterical! Trying so hard there, sweetie!

Please....articulate some point so I can shred it.

Comparing a collision in peacetime with a collision with the enemy in wartime for starters, sweetie.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Wow! This thread is hysterical! Trying so hard there, sweetie!

Please....articulate some point so I can shred it.

Comparing a collision in peacetime with a collision with the enemy in wartime for starters, sweetie.

Try honesty.

What upsets you, to my pleasure, is that I've revealed a fact about yet another Democrat idol.



That, after the recent debacle, eight years of a failed presidency that began with you Liberals claiming Hussein Obama to be Jesus, God and the messiah.



As a rule, rather than any factual basis, Liberals consider their elites the way believers bestow their faith, and cannot accept that most of them have not just feet of clay...but, often, brains of the same substance.


I do appreciate your embarrassment and have every intention of bringing even more agony to you in the future.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The inexcusable and unaccountable tragedy that occurred off the coast of Japan, costing the lives of seven American seamen, is remarkably similar to an earlier naval mishap.

Both involved a Fitzgerald, both resulted in calls for courts marshals, and both laid the blame on the commanders of the two vessels.




1.The USS Fitzgerald, named for Wm Fitzgerald, Vietnam hero, "collided with a merchant container ship....Barring a mechanical error—in these systems or, say, one ship's steering capacity—the collision likely resulted from a mistake, or a series of mistakes. "It's usually human error," ..."
https://www.wired.com/story/uss-fitzgerald-navy-destroyer-crash-collision-japan-acx-crystal/

2. " The Navy won't need to complete its findings to hold Cmdr. Benson responsible. He will surely lose his command forthwith. But there will no doubt be others whose performance during the incident will be found wanting, maybe even negligent. They will also be held to account. There may even be courts-martial that result."
There is a lot we know -- and don't know -- about the USS Fitzgerald collision - CNN.com





One had better hope that the commander is a wealthy Democrat.
Here's why:

3. In August, 1943, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was in charge of a patrol boat, and it was hit by a Japanese ship, and several of the crewmembers died.

"....Japan’s Amaqiri hit PT-109, leaving 11 crewmen floundering in the Pacific.
Kennedy was ultimately awarded the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, for gallantry in action.'
PT-109 sinks; Lieutenant Kennedy is instrumental in saving crew - Aug 01, 1943 - HISTORY.com

And he deserved it....for what happened after the fact.
But the above was the only part of the story.



4. This reported:

".... Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor."
John F. Kennedy | HistoryNet


5. Sooo....why did it happen?
Who was at fault?


a. "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SINKING, MANY NAVY MEN WERE BITTERLY CRITICAL OF KENNEDY AND HIS ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE LOSS OF PT-109. EVEN JFK’S OLDER BROTHER JOE WROTE:

“What I really want to know is where the hell were you when the destroyer hove into sight, and exactly what were your moves?”
Lieutenant Commander Jack Gibson, Warfield’s successor, was even tougher. “He lost the 109 through very poor organization of his crew,” Gibson later said.“Everything he did up until he was in the water was the wrong thing.”
JFK and PT 109: Negligent Commander or Courageous Leader?





Looks very much like Kennedy caused the events that led to the loss of life and the ship.
In fact, Kennedy expected to be court-marshaled....


Good luck to Cmdr. Benson.
He may end up running for President.

No Edmund Fitzgerald? What's up?

 

[OldLady]

The inexcusable and unaccountable tragedy that occurred off the coast of Japan, costing the lives of seven American seamen, is remarkably similar to an earlier naval mishap.

Both involved a Fitzgerald, both resulted in calls for courts marshals, and both laid the blame on the commanders of the two vessels.




1.The USS Fitzgerald, named for Wm Fitzgerald, Vietnam hero, "collided with a merchant container ship....Barring a mechanical error—in these systems or, say, one ship's steering capacity—the collision likely resulted from a mistake, or a series of mistakes. "It's usually human error," ..."
https://www.wired.com/story/uss-fitzgerald-navy-destroyer-crash-collision-japan-acx-crystal/

2. " The Navy won't need to complete its findings to hold Cmdr. Benson responsible. He will surely lose his command forthwith. But there will no doubt be others whose performance during the incident will be found wanting, maybe even negligent. They will also be held to account. There may even be courts-martial that result."
There is a lot we know -- and don't know -- about the USS Fitzgerald collision - CNN.com





One had better hope that the commander is a wealthy Democrat.
Here's why:

3. In August, 1943, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was in charge of a patrol boat, and it was hit by a Japanese ship, and several of the crewmembers died.

"....Japan’s Amaqiri hit PT-109, leaving 11 crewmen floundering in the Pacific.
Kennedy was ultimately awarded the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, for gallantry in action.'
PT-109 sinks; Lieutenant Kennedy is instrumental in saving crew - Aug 01, 1943 - HISTORY.com

And he deserved it....for what happened after the fact.
But the above was the only part of the story.



4. This reported:

".... Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor."
John F. Kennedy | HistoryNet


5. Sooo....why did it happen?
Who was at fault?


a. "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SINKING, MANY NAVY MEN WERE BITTERLY CRITICAL OF KENNEDY AND HIS ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE LOSS OF PT-109. EVEN JFK’S OLDER BROTHER JOE WROTE:

“What I really want to know is where the hell were you when the destroyer hove into sight, and exactly what were your moves?”
Lieutenant Commander Jack Gibson, Warfield’s successor, was even tougher. “He lost the 109 through very poor organization of his crew,” Gibson later said.“Everything he did up until he was in the water was the wrong thing.”
JFK and PT 109: Negligent Commander or Courageous Leader?





Looks very much like Kennedy caused the events that led to the loss of life and the ship.
In fact, Kennedy expected to be court-marshaled....


Good luck to Cmdr. Benson.
He may end up running for President.

And then there was the Edmund Fitzgerald.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The inexcusable and unaccountable tragedy that occurred off the coast of Japan, costing the lives of seven American seamen, is remarkably similar to an earlier naval mishap.

Both involved a Fitzgerald, both resulted in calls for courts marshals, and both laid the blame on the commanders of the two vessels.




1.The USS Fitzgerald, named for Wm Fitzgerald, Vietnam hero, "collided with a merchant container ship....Barring a mechanical error—in these systems or, say, one ship's steering capacity—the collision likely resulted from a mistake, or a series of mistakes. "It's usually human error," ..."
https://www.wired.com/story/uss-fitzgerald-navy-destroyer-crash-collision-japan-acx-crystal/

2. " The Navy won't need to complete its findings to hold Cmdr. Benson responsible. He will surely lose his command forthwith. But there will no doubt be others whose performance during the incident will be found wanting, maybe even negligent. They will also be held to account. There may even be courts-martial that result."
There is a lot we know -- and don't know -- about the USS Fitzgerald collision - CNN.com





One had better hope that the commander is a wealthy Democrat.
Here's why:

3. In August, 1943, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was in charge of a patrol boat, and it was hit by a Japanese ship, and several of the crewmembers died.

"....Japan’s Amaqiri hit PT-109, leaving 11 crewmen floundering in the Pacific.
Kennedy was ultimately awarded the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, for gallantry in action.'
PT-109 sinks; Lieutenant Kennedy is instrumental in saving crew - Aug 01, 1943 - HISTORY.com

And he deserved it....for what happened after the fact.
But the above was the only part of the story.



4. This reported:

".... Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor."
John F. Kennedy | HistoryNet


5. Sooo....why did it happen?
Who was at fault?


a. "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SINKING, MANY NAVY MEN WERE BITTERLY CRITICAL OF KENNEDY AND HIS ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE LOSS OF PT-109. EVEN JFK’S OLDER BROTHER JOE WROTE:

“What I really want to know is where the hell were you when the destroyer hove into sight, and exactly what were your moves?”
Lieutenant Commander Jack Gibson, Warfield’s successor, was even tougher. “He lost the 109 through very poor organization of his crew,” Gibson later said.“Everything he did up until he was in the water was the wrong thing.”
JFK and PT 109: Negligent Commander or Courageous Leader?





Looks very much like Kennedy caused the events that led to the loss of life and the ship.
In fact, Kennedy expected to be court-marshaled....


Good luck to Cmdr. Benson.
He may end up running for President.

And then there was the Edmund Fitzgerald.

I would've drawn a correlation to the Edmund Fitzgerald first, just sayin'.

Note to self: If you ever buy a boat, do NOT put Fitzgerald in the name.

 

[Muhammed]

 

[OldLady]

The inexcusable and unaccountable tragedy that occurred off the coast of Japan, costing the lives of seven American seamen, is remarkably similar to an earlier naval mishap.

Both involved a Fitzgerald, both resulted in calls for courts marshals, and both laid the blame on the commanders of the two vessels.




1.The USS Fitzgerald, named for Wm Fitzgerald, Vietnam hero, "collided with a merchant container ship....Barring a mechanical error—in these systems or, say, one ship's steering capacity—the collision likely resulted from a mistake, or a series of mistakes. "It's usually human error," ..."
https://www.wired.com/story/uss-fitzgerald-navy-destroyer-crash-collision-japan-acx-crystal/

2. " The Navy won't need to complete its findings to hold Cmdr. Benson responsible. He will surely lose his command forthwith. But there will no doubt be others whose performance during the incident will be found wanting, maybe even negligent. They will also be held to account. There may even be courts-martial that result."
There is a lot we know -- and don't know -- about the USS Fitzgerald collision - CNN.com





One had better hope that the commander is a wealthy Democrat.
Here's why:

3. In August, 1943, John Fitzgerald Kennedy was in charge of a patrol boat, and it was hit by a Japanese ship, and several of the crewmembers died.

"....Japan’s Amaqiri hit PT-109, leaving 11 crewmen floundering in the Pacific.
Kennedy was ultimately awarded the Navy and Marine Corps Medal, for gallantry in action.'
PT-109 sinks; Lieutenant Kennedy is instrumental in saving crew - Aug 01, 1943 - HISTORY.com

And he deserved it....for what happened after the fact.
But the above was the only part of the story.



4. This reported:

".... Japanese destroyer emerged from the black night and smashed into PT-109, slicing it in two and igniting its fuel tanks. The collision was part of a wild night of blunders by 109 and other boats that one historian later described as “the most screwed up PT boat action of World War II.” Yet American newspapers and magazines reported the PT-109 mishap as a triumph. Eleven of the 13 men aboard survived, and their tale, declared the Boston Globe, “was one of the great stories of heroism in this war.” Crew members who were initially ashamed of the accident found themselves depicted as patriots of the first order, their behavior a model of valor."
John F. Kennedy | HistoryNet


5. Sooo....why did it happen?
Who was at fault?


a. "IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE SINKING, MANY NAVY MEN WERE BITTERLY CRITICAL OF KENNEDY AND HIS ACTIONS THAT LED TO THE LOSS OF PT-109. EVEN JFK’S OLDER BROTHER JOE WROTE:

“What I really want to know is where the hell were you when the destroyer hove into sight, and exactly what were your moves?”
Lieutenant Commander Jack Gibson, Warfield’s successor, was even tougher. “He lost the 109 through very poor organization of his crew,” Gibson later said.“Everything he did up until he was in the water was the wrong thing.”
JFK and PT 109: Negligent Commander or Courageous Leader?





Looks very much like Kennedy caused the events that led to the loss of life and the ship.
In fact, Kennedy expected to be court-marshaled....


Good luck to Cmdr. Benson.
He may end up running for President.

And then there was the Edmund Fitzgerald.

I would've drawn a correlation to the Edmund Fitzgerald first, just sayin'.

Note to self: If you ever buy a boat, do NOT put Fitzgerald in the name.

Exactly what I was thinking.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How does a military vessel miss another ship heading for it???

And this is exactly what John Fitzgerald Kennedy was asked after his patrol boat was hit by a Japanese vessel.....


6. "And when young John F., home from the wars (having been dismissed from his intelligence post after F.B.I. tapes disclosed his intimacy with the tainted European beauty queen), described, with much embellishment, his PT-109 misadventure (''We were kind of ashamed of our performance,'' a crew member said), an awe-struck John Hersey, hearing the tale over dinner at the Stork Club, transformed it into a New Yorker article that - though more flattering than accurate, Mr. Wills contends - became not only the basis of a legend but a foundation stone of Kennedy's career.

''Not since Theodore Roosevelt charged up San Juan Hill with two journalists at his side,'' Mr. Wills writes, ''had a military episode been so expertly merchandized for its political value.''
Stomping on Camelot



a. "In the general election Kennedy ran as a war hero. This was ironic. Though he deserved praise for his courage in the aftermath of the attack on PT 109, it had apparently sunk because he had been inattentive as a commander, as Garry Wills long ago pointed out. JFK himself worried that the events could justify either a medal or a court martial. In the end he got the medal--after his father used his influence.....


... an awake and alert captain and crew would no more likely get run over by a destroyer than you would get run over by a freight train. You would hear the train and get off the tracks, unless you were asleep on the tracks..."
Radaractive: Kennedy and the PT-109





Two incidents, almost three quarters of a century apart.....with the same question:
".. an awake and alert captain and crew would no more likely get run over by a destroyer than you would get run over by a freight train. You would hear the train and get off the tracks, unless you were asleep on the tracks..."


Is that how it happened?

 

[PoliticalChic]

"The United States Navy and Coast Guard are investigating, as are the Japanese Coast Guard and the Japan Transport Safety Board, in an effort to determine what caused the deadly crash in a busy sea lane in the middle of the night.

.....inflicted serious damage to the destroyer, causing a section in its middle to cave in, above and below the water line, flooding berths, a machinery area and the radio room.

...trying to determine the cause of the accident.

....radar images and electronic charts that would have tracked the ships’ paths."
As Sailors’ Bodies Are Flown to U.S., Fitzgerald Inquiries Intensify





".. an awake and alert captain and crew would no more likely get run over by a destroyer than you would get run over by a freight train. You would hear the train and get off the tracks, unless you were asleep on the tracks..."



History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme.
Attributed to Mark Twain

 

[Marion Morrison]

Is PC some kind of advanced computer canned response VB proggie?

 

[Scamp]

No Edmund Fitzgerald? What's up?

This^

 

[whitehall]

JFK's father, old Joe Fitzgerald Kennedy was relieved of duty as US ambassador to England for supporting Hitler. Joe's son was relieved of duty in Navy Intelligence for having a sexual relationship with a female Nazi spy. PT109 was the only boat ever run over by a Japanese warship in WW2 and the Japanese destroyer apparently wasn't even aware that it ran over PT 109. The Fitzgerald/Kennedy dynasty had an ace in the hole though. When JFK was facing court martial for losing his boat, Joe hired a family friend and novelist to create a legend around PT109 and with the cooperation of Joe's connections in Hollywood the potential court martial turned into a manufactured legend. Such is the power of the media combined with politics.