NFL team owners now have to figure out how to mitigate damage to their business if players keep protesting and it alienates fans.
“They also have the responsibility to suffer the consequences, whatever they may be,” Pat added. “As ratings go down and they continue to anger more and more fans, it’s going to affect the bottom line.”
Jeffy pointed out that it’s an issue of perception as well. Some people will always see the protest as a form of disrespect for the flag and the national anthem, regardless of what the players intend to say by kneeling.
Only a fool or a liar can look at someone kneeling during the National Anthem and not see that they are disrespecting the flag, the Nation, and Americans as a whole.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaand there it is again for the umpteenth time ---- they can't answer the question so all they can come up with is "only a fool can't see it". The lame old "everybody knows" fallacy.
It's so obvious they can't explain it. Because it doesn't exist.
All you're doing is trying to dick-tate your projections onto other people you have no control over.
Just as you're trying to dick-tate the feelings of veterans, fans, the country as a whole, etc.
Who the **** died ans appointed you the arbiter of other people's motivations and impressions?
Even if the media, in their infinite dishonestly managed to convince the nation as a whole that the kneelers were Patriots showing their love of Country,
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
Said the lefty who attacked me personally because she was completely unable to even TRY to pretend to refute any of my points.
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
I think leftys defend their position quite well in most cases. On this case it is this simple, the players have a right to kneel the consumer has a right to stop supporting football. That's the good old USA. I say good luck finding a sport as entertaining.
All you're doing is trying to dick-tate your projections onto other people you have no control over.
Just as you're trying to dick-tate the feelings of veterans, fans, the country as a whole, etc.
Who the **** died ans appointed you the arbiter of other people's motivations and impressions?
Even if the media, in their infinite dishonestly managed to convince the nation as a whole that the kneelers were Patriots showing their love of Country,
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
Said the lefty who attacked me personally because she was completely unable to even TRY to pretend to refute any of my points.
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
I think leftys defend their position quite well in most cases. On this case it is this simple, the players have a right to kneel the consumer has a right to stop supporting football. That's the good old USA. I say good luck finding a sport as entertaining.
The boss is the money. If the money does not like the behavior, the kneelers will be fired. The good news is that their First Amendment rights will be in tact so they can come into the stands as paying fans themselves and kneel or turn their back to The National Anthem and oppressive flag.
Nope, you have not. Which is understandable since it's an impossible case to make.
You see son, all you have is raw emotion here. There's no rationality to it. If there were --- it could be rationally articulated. You can't do it because raw emotion doesn't translate to words. You have a mindset that "everybody thinks X", and can't imagine somebody not thinking "X" because it never occurs to you to question "X".
The two central questions you can't answer --- and no one can answer because there is no answer --- are (a) what the **** does a national anthem have to do with a sports event, and (b) on what planet does the gesture of kneeling mean "disrespect"?
Neither of them have a legitimate answer. Therefore the correct answer is that your premise was wrong in the first place.
And by the way that's also a constant. Those questions never did have an answer, and they never will.
A ritual it is. What does it have to do with a football game? A baseball game? Any sport at all save the Olympics? Ah yes, we're back to the unanswerable question (a) again.
Why don't we do the same anthem dance at a movie theater? Or a concert hall? Or a cattle auction? Or a theater play? Why don't I have to stand for a national anthem when I walk in the grocery store? All of the have just as much to do with an anthem as a football game does.
It's actually showing the opposite. Kneeling is a gesture of submission. Always has been. In fact when Kaepernick first declined to stand he actually did nothing at all. Just sat. Some teammate suggested kneeling could more actively show non-participation in a mob mentality ritual and respect for the higher ideals of the symbols at the same time. And that's where that started.
Wrong again Gummo. Kaepernick explicitly said disrespect or any kind of slur to the military was *NOT* his intent, and *I* have repeatedly posted those quotes.
Your response to them, of course, was
Yet another unanswered question is how the **** y'all seem to directly translate the national anthem to :"the military". Is that all the country means to you --- "the military"? This just in .... we are not a nation of "national anthem", we are not a country of "flag" and we are not a country of "the military". We are a nation of Constitution, and all those other players are subservient to that
Matter of fact you might want to peruse Amendment Number One of that document, the building block. And then essplain to the class why you're disrespecting that.
All you're doing is trying to dick-tate your projections onto other people you have no control over.
Just as you're trying to dick-tate the feelings of veterans, fans, the country as a whole, etc.
Who the **** died ans appointed you the arbiter of other people's motivations and impressions?
Even if the media, in their infinite dishonestly managed to convince the nation as a whole that the kneelers were Patriots showing their love of Country,
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
Said the lefty who attacked me personally because she was completely unable to even TRY to pretend to refute any of my points.
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
I think leftys defend their position quite well in most cases. On this case it is this simple, the players have a right to kneel the consumer has a right to stop supporting football. That's the good old USA. I say good luck finding a sport as entertaining.
Ironic, when I was a kid we had a number of arguments based on the premise that blacks could not play football, The winning argument always won by asking how many blacks are playing in professional football?
All you're doing is trying to dick-tate your projections onto other people you have no control over.
Just as you're trying to dick-tate the feelings of veterans, fans, the country as a whole, etc.
Who the **** died ans appointed you the arbiter of other people's motivations and impressions?
Even if the media, in their infinite dishonestly managed to convince the nation as a whole that the kneelers were Patriots showing their love of Country,
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
Said the lefty who attacked me personally because she was completely unable to even TRY to pretend to refute any of my points.
The actions of the Kneelers, kneeling during a ritual of standing to show respect to the Nation as a whole, would still be an expression of contempt.
Even if the targets have been lied into not realizing it.
Their actions are clear and independent of the opinion.
If I snidely told you that you obtuse, and you were too stupid to realize that that was an insult, it would still be an insult.
All, YOU are doing now, is the standard lefty bit of trying to make this conversation about ME, because you lefties know on some level that you can't defend your positions honestly.
I think leftys defend their position quite well in most cases. On this case it is this simple, the players have a right to kneel the consumer has a right to stop supporting football. That's the good old USA. I say good luck finding a sport as entertaining.
The boss is the money. If the money does not like the behavior, the kneelers will be fired. The good news is that their First Amendment rights will be in tact so they can come into the stands as paying fans themselves and kneel or turn their back to The National Anthem and oppressive flag.
Nope, you have not. Which is understandable since it's an impossible case to make.
You see son, all you have is raw emotion here. There's no rationality to it. If there were --- it could be rationally articulated. You can't do it because raw emotion doesn't translate to words. You have a mindset that "everybody thinks X", and can't imagine somebody not thinking "X" because it never occurs to you to question "X".
The two central questions you can't answer --- and no one can answer because there is no answer --- are (a) what the **** does a national anthem have to do with a sports event, and (b) on what planet does the gesture of kneeling mean "disrespect"?
Neither of them have a legitimate answer. Therefore the correct answer is that your premise was wrong in the first place.
And by the way that's also a constant. Those questions never did have an answer, and they never will.
A ritual it is. What does it have to do with a football game? A baseball game? Any sport at all save the Olympics? Ah yes, we're back to the unanswerable question (a) again.
Why don't we do the same anthem dance at a movie theater? Or a concert hall? Or a cattle auction? Or a theater play? Why don't I have to stand for a national anthem when I walk in the grocery store? All of the have just as much to do with an anthem as a football game does.
It's actually showing the opposite. Kneeling is a gesture of submission. Always has been. In fact when Kaepernick first declined to stand he actually did nothing at all. Just sat. Some teammate suggested kneeling could more actively show non-participation in a mob mentality ritual and respect for the higher ideals of the symbols at the same time. And that's where that started.[/QUOTE]
This ritual is not about submission, but respect and loyalty.
Which has been shown for generations by standing.
Your pretense of confusion on this is not credible.
Wrong again Gummo. Kaepernick explicitly said disrespect or any kind of slur to the military was *NOT* his intent, and *I* have repeatedly posted those quotes.
Your response to them, of course, was
Yet another unanswered question is how the **** y'all seem to directly translate the national anthem to :"the military". Is that all the country means to you --- "the military"? This just in .... we are not a nation of "national anthem", we are not a country of "flag" and we are not a country of "the military". We are a nation of Constitution, and all those other players are subservient to that
Matter of fact you might want to peruse Amendment Number One of that document, the building block. And then essplain to the class why you're disrespecting that.[/QUOTE]
Kaepernick explicitly said that he was NOT showing "pride" in the nation as a whole, and then went on to insult America.
There is nothing unconstitutional about wanting to treat Kaepernick with the same contempt he has shown America.
Ironic, when I was a kid we had a number of arguments based on the premise that blacks could not play football, The winning argument always won by asking how many blacks are playing in professional football?
Today, supposedly racist white Americans have no problem, and have NOT had any problem for generations, identifying with and celebrating majority black foot ball teams.
And no one even thinks that is worthy of comment (except me).
Nope, you have not. Which is understandable since it's an impossible case to make.
You see son, all you have is raw emotion here. There's no rationality to it. If there were --- it could be rationally articulated. You can't do it because raw emotion doesn't translate to words. You have a mindset that "everybody thinks X", and can't imagine somebody not thinking "X" because it never occurs to you to question "X".
The two central questions you can't answer --- and no one can answer because there is no answer --- are (a) what the **** does a national anthem have to do with a sports event, and (b) on what planet does the gesture of kneeling mean "disrespect"?
Neither of them have a legitimate answer. Therefore the correct answer is that your premise was wrong in the first place.
And by the way that's also a constant. Those questions never did have an answer, and they never will.
A ritual it is. What does it have to do with a football game? A baseball game? Any sport at all save the Olympics? Ah yes, we're back to the unanswerable question (a) again.
Why don't we do the same anthem dance at a movie theater? Or a concert hall? Or a cattle auction? Or a theater play? Why don't I have to stand for a national anthem when I walk in the grocery store? All of the have just as much to do with an anthem as a football game does.
COMPLETELY relevant to the irrelevance of the ritual being there in the first place. That, again, is question number (a) that you can't answer, because there is no answer, meaning it has no justification to exist in that setting at all. Period.
What's that?
No "because we've always done it" is in no way an answer to that question. At one time we had "always" taken a dump in the woods too. At one time we "always" smoked cigarettes. At one point we "always" traveled on horseback.
The question is, what's its purpose?
And the answer you desperately try to avoid touching is ---- it doesn't have one.
That is, other than creating a bowlful of obedient subservient lockstep mob-mentality robots. Way to aim high.
Kneeling instead is an active refusal to join in, thus showing anti-Patriotism.
It's actually showing the opposite. Kneeling is a gesture of submission. Always has been. In fact when Kaepernick first declined to stand he actually did nothing at all. Just sat. Some teammate suggested kneeling could more actively show non-participation in a mob mentality ritual and respect for the higher ideals of the symbols at the same time. And that's where that started.
I have no "confusion". I just spelled it out at a fourth-grade reading level. Too bad it was over your head.
And once again you're falling back on "because we've always done it" , which just underscores all over again that you have no rational basis. Which is what I've been noting all along, and here you are still digging the same hole.
Nope, you have not. Which is understandable since it's an impossible case to make.
You see son, all you have is raw emotion here. There's no rationality to it. If there were --- it could be rationally articulated. You can't do it because raw emotion doesn't translate to words. You have a mindset that "everybody thinks X", and can't imagine somebody not thinking "X" because it never occurs to you to question "X".
The two central questions you can't answer --- and no one can answer because there is no answer --- are (a) what the **** does a national anthem have to do with a sports event, and (b) on what planet does the gesture of kneeling mean "disrespect"?
Neither of them have a legitimate answer. Therefore the correct answer is that your premise was wrong in the first place.
And by the way that's also a constant. Those questions never did have an answer, and they never will.
A ritual it is. What does it have to do with a football game? A baseball game? Any sport at all save the Olympics? Ah yes, we're back to the unanswerable question (a) again.
Why don't we do the same anthem dance at a movie theater? Or a concert hall? Or a cattle auction? Or a theater play? Why don't I have to stand for a national anthem when I walk in the grocery store? All of the have just as much to do with an anthem as a football game does.
COMPLETELY relevant to the irrelevance of the ritual being there in the first place. That, again, is question number (a) that you can't answer, because there is no answer, meaning it has no justification to exist in that setting at all. Period.
If we were discussing whether or not to do the Anthem at the games, that would be a relevant question.
But, that's not the topic. THe topic is the behavior of a portion of the players during the Anthem.
What's that?
No "because we've always done it" is in no way an answer to that question. At one time we had "always" taken a dump in the woods too. At one time we "always" smoked cigarettes. At one point we "always" traveled on horseback.
The question is, what's its purpose?
And the answer you desperately try to avoid touching is ---- it doesn't have one.
That is, other than creating a bowlful of obedient subservient lockstep mob-mentality robots. Way to aim high.
Kneeling instead is an active refusal to join in, thus showing anti-Patriotism.
It's actually showing the opposite. Kneeling is a gesture of submission. Always has been. In fact when Kaepernick first declined to stand he actually did nothing at all. Just sat. Some teammate suggested kneeling could more actively show non-participation in a mob mentality ritual and respect for the higher ideals of the symbols at the same time. And that's where that started.
I have no "confusion". I just spelled it out at a fourth-grade reading level. Too bad it was over your head.
And once again you're falling back on "because we've always done it" , which just underscores all over again that you have no rational basis. Which is what I've been noting all along, and here you are still digging the same hole.
[/QUOTE]
This ritual is not about submission but respect and loyalty.
In the context of this well established ritual, kneeling is not showing submission, but a refusal to show respect and loyalty.
Citing Tradition is not "irrational" when you are DISCUSSING a tradition.
You are the one digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.
The boss is the money. If the money does not like the behavior, the kneelers will be fired. The good news is that their First Amendment rights will be in tact so they can come into the stands as paying fans themselves and kneel or turn their back to The National Anthem and oppressive flag.
Nope, you have not. Which is understandable since it's an impossible case to make.
You see son, all you have is raw emotion here. There's no rationality to it. If there were --- it could be rationally articulated. You can't do it because raw emotion doesn't translate to words. You have a mindset that "everybody thinks X", and can't imagine somebody not thinking "X" because it never occurs to you to question "X".
The two central questions you can't answer --- and no one can answer because there is no answer --- are (a) what the **** does a national anthem have to do with a sports event, and (b) on what planet does the gesture of kneeling mean "disrespect"?
Neither of them have a legitimate answer. Therefore the correct answer is that your premise was wrong in the first place.
And by the way that's also a constant. Those questions never did have an answer, and they never will.
A ritual it is. What does it have to do with a football game? A baseball game? Any sport at all save the Olympics? Ah yes, we're back to the unanswerable question (a) again.
Why don't we do the same anthem dance at a movie theater? Or a concert hall? Or a cattle auction? Or a theater play? Why don't I have to stand for a national anthem when I walk in the grocery store? All of the have just as much to do with an anthem as a football game does.
COMPLETELY relevant to the irrelevance of the ritual being there in the first place. That, again, is question number (a) that you can't answer, because there is no answer, meaning it has no justification to exist in that setting at all. Period.
What's that?
No "because we've always done it" is in no way an answer to that question. At one time we had "always" taken a dump in the woods too. At one time we "always" smoked cigarettes. At one point we "always" traveled on horseback.
The question is, what's its purpose?
And the answer you desperately try to avoid touching is ---- it doesn't have one.
That is, other than creating a bowlful of obedient subservient lockstep mob-mentality robots. Way to aim high.
Actually it's because I'm against mob mentality myself. A point I've made in myriad ways.
Speaking of those ways, since you're a fan of that shit here's some robot-porn for ya..... enjoy.
See the difference?
The Norks don't mix it up with a football game
Is that "patriotism" for them?
Diga me Tonto, if any of the above is "patriotism" what is it when the Defense Department pimps out millions of taxpayer dollars to shill for fake jingo charades at sports events?
That may as well be unanswerable question (d). It's actually not unanswerable at all, but you won't dare touch it.
Kneeling instead is an active refusal to join in, thus showing anti-Patriotism.
It's actually showing the opposite. Kneeling is a gesture of submission. Always has been. In fact when Kaepernick first declined to stand he actually did nothing at all. Just sat. Some teammate suggested kneeling could more actively show non-participation in a mob mentality ritual and respect for the higher ideals of the symbols at the same time. And that's where that started.
I have no "confusion". I just spelled it out at a fourth-grade reading level. Too bad it was over your head.
And once again you're falling back on "because we've always done it" , which just underscores all over again that you have no rational basis. Which is what I've been noting all along, and here you are still digging the same hole.
Nope, you have not. Which is understandable since it's an impossible case to make.
You see son, all you have is raw emotion here. There's no rationality to it. If there were --- it could be rationally articulated. You can't do it because raw emotion doesn't translate to words. You have a mindset that "everybody thinks X", and can't imagine somebody not thinking "X" because it never occurs to you to question "X".
The two central questions you can't answer --- and no one can answer because there is no answer --- are (a) what the **** does a national anthem have to do with a sports event, and (b) on what planet does the gesture of kneeling mean "disrespect"?
Neither of them have a legitimate answer. Therefore the correct answer is that your premise was wrong in the first place.
And by the way that's also a constant. Those questions never did have an answer, and they never will.
A ritual it is. What does it have to do with a football game? A baseball game? Any sport at all save the Olympics? Ah yes, we're back to the unanswerable question (a) again.
Why don't we do the same anthem dance at a movie theater? Or a concert hall? Or a cattle auction? Or a theater play? Why don't I have to stand for a national anthem when I walk in the grocery store? All of the have just as much to do with an anthem as a football game does.
COMPLETELY relevant to the irrelevance of the ritual being there in the first place. That, again, is question number (a) that you can't answer, because there is no answer, meaning it has no justification to exist in that setting at all. Period.
What's that?
No "because we've always done it" is in no way an answer to that question. At one time we had "always" taken a dump in the woods too. At one time we "always" smoked cigarettes. At one point we "always" traveled on horseback.
The question is, what's its purpose?
And the answer you desperately try to avoid touching is ---- it doesn't have one.
That is, other than creating a bowlful of obedient subservient lockstep mob-mentality robots. Way to aim high.
Actually it's because I'm against mob mentality myself. A point I've made in myriad ways.
Speaking of those ways, since you're a fan of that shit here's some robot-porn for ya..... enjoy.
See the difference?
The Norks don't mix it up with a football game
Is that "patriotism" for them?
Diga me Tonto, if any of the above is "patriotism" what is it when the Defense Department pimps out millions of taxpayer dollars to shill for fake jingo charades at sports events?
That may as well be unanswerable question (d). It's actually not unanswerable at all, but you won't dare touch it.[/QUOTE]
I'm not sure what you think I've afraid to answer. I note that your response was very negative, but not very clear.
You seemed to equate American Patriotism with that of North Korea.
Is this where you would like to admit that you are against Patriotism in general, or just American patriotism in particular?
That would be a big step towards an honest discussion of the issue.
Kneeling instead is an active refusal to join in, thus showing anti-Patriotism.
It's actually showing the opposite. Kneeling is a gesture of submission. Always has been. In fact when Kaepernick first declined to stand he actually did nothing at all. Just sat. Some teammate suggested kneeling could more actively show non-participation in a mob mentality ritual and respect for the higher ideals of the symbols at the same time. And that's where that started.
I have no "confusion". I just spelled it out at a fourth-grade reading level. Too bad it was over your head.
And once again you're falling back on "because we've always done it" , which just underscores all over again that you have no rational basis. Which is what I've been noting all along, and here you are still digging the same hole.
[/QUOTE]
This ritual is not about submission but respect and loyalty.
In the context of this well established ritual, kneeling is not showing submission, but a refusal to show respect and loyalty.
Citing Tradition is not "irrational" when you are DISCUSSING a tradition.[/QUOTE]
It is when it's used to deflect the question you can't answer.[/QUOTE]
Which is of course, not what I was doing.
Keapernick kneeling when the ritual called for standing, was him showing disrespect to America and Americans.
Your attempt to pretend that he was showing "Submission" was an absurdity.
The NFL can do as it pleases with the kneelers, fire them, leave them alone, it’s is the NFL and the owners choice to either accept or fire them. Myself, I am with a growing number of those that are no longer watching the NFL and as much as people deny it is hurting the NFL, polls, ratings and other indications show that it is hurting the NFL. I watch football for football, not the BS going on today.
So whatever anyone’s opinion is, it doesn’t matter to me. When the NFL quits letting players run the league, I may or may not comeback. I find college football very entertaining and politics free.
The NFL is caught in the middle of a bad sitution. Since 2005, the DOD has spent millions of taxpayer dollars patriotizing and militarizing sports in general. Not just football. Those millions of dollars in taxpayer money that are being spent by the DOD promoting militarism and patriotism in sports serves largely as a means of recruitment and to create the illusion of support on mainstream television for all of these useless wars and emperialist meddling which is destroying our economy.
