Finally, an answer to why you need an AR15 with 30 round magazines

[White 6]

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

I say bullshit, stolen valor. Your 1 shot 1 kill statement shows the lie in all you've said. You're making it up.

It's my understanding that infantry goes into the field with 7 magazines: 210 rounds. That's 210 dead enemy every time they go out, right? 1 shot 1 kill? Isn't that how it works?

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

 

[westwall]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

Yes, I am one of those highly trained civilians. Even at my advanced age I still outshoot 99% of the cops I compete against.

I also am a long range precision shooter. I use a Steyr SSG PII with double set triggers and a Kahles ZF84 scope. Old school, but it works. I get 100% hits on the standard 1000 yard target all the way to 1200 yards with the Federal Premium 175 gr Match ammo.

I won't bother to tell you how far out I can connect with my .50.

Yeah, you were probably still in diapers when I shot my first Palma Match, so I doubt we have ever been on a range together, but if you ever trained at Pickle Meadows in the 1970's or '80s, it's possible.

Like I said, I never served, but I trained a LOT of people who have.

 

[westwall]

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

I say bullshit, stolen valor. Your 1 shot 1 kill statement shows the lie in all you've said. You're making it up.

It's my understanding that infantry goes into the field with 7 magazines: 210 rounds. That's 210 dead enemy every time they go out, right? 1 shot 1 kill? Isn't that how it works?

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

I don't think you understand what volley fire is either. I own a No. III Mk I from 1915 that still has the volley sights on it.

They were used by company sized units firing indirect to harass marching infantry up to 3000 yards away.

COMPANY sized units. Even battalions when they could do it.

 

[Levant]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

 

[Levant]

I've had many arguments like this over the years, and the one thing they all had in common, is that nobody making the argument how good a shot he was, actually proved it in combat, where your targets fired back.

Everybody believes their shooting skills at the range, will be maintained in a gunfight.

And that's exactly why we need 30 round magazines. In fact, if I knew 40-round or 60-round magazines were as reliable as 30-round, I'd argue we need 60-round magazines. Even 250-round magazines.

Since no one can say absolutely that hundreds of escaping Democrats from Antifa run cities won't come up my driveway one day, no one can say what I might need or not need. I live on a hill; it's doubtful a flood could hit my home but I might need a canoe anyway - because it's not impossible. I measure my own risks, the likelihood of those risks based on my own understanding of them, and consider my finances and then I prepare for what makes sense to ME and to ME alone - well, me and my wife. I can't prepare for absolutely everything and I won't just prepare for nothing. Where I land in between is MY choice and no one has the right to tell me for what I can and cannot prepare.

 

[westwall]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

You can always tell the blowhards from the actual shooters, can't you. I shoot a LOT. I am real good. When I was younger I used to compete in the 3 gun matches and always did a credible job. But, in a real shooting situation the world changes. Shit happens, magazines fail, ammunition fails to fire, brass fails to eject, we practice so that when those things happen we react quickly, and properly. And. You miss. I don't miss often, but I still DO miss. That's why I have 20 and 30 round mags.


Not one of these "experts" has ever handled a gun. They don't know even the basics.

 

[Mindful]

There is absolutely zero chance of fascist democrats advancing gun control, and I might add that as things stand we may just tell the fed to go fuck itself and stop following their unconstitutional laws altogether!

If the Democrats get control of the Senate and the Whitehouse, there will be Australia-like gun confiscation in the United States.

Then there’ll be a huge black market in them, like in Europe.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

You can always tell the blowhards from the actual shooters, can't you. I shoot a LOT. I am real good. When I was younger I used to compete in the 3 gun matches and always did a credible job. But, in a real shooting situation the world changes. Shit happens, magazines fail, ammunition fails to fire, brass fails to eject, we practice so that when those things happen we react quickly, and properly. And. You miss. I don't miss often, but I still DO miss. That's why I have 20 and 30 round mags.


Not one of these "experts" has ever handled a gun. They don't know even the basics.

Yah, you never know when you are going to get an Elk armed with a Bazooka cornered in a Warehouse and you may need more than 15 rounds to bring him down.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I've had many arguments like this over the years, and the one thing they all had in common, is that nobody making the argument how good a shot he was, actually proved it in combat, where your targets fired back.

Everybody believes their shooting skills at the range, will be maintained in a gunfight.

And that's exactly why we need 30 round magazines. In fact, if I knew 40-round or 60-round magazines were as reliable as 30-round, I'd argue we need 60-round magazines. Even 250-round magazines.

Since no one can say absolutely that hundreds of escaping Democrats from Antifa run cities won't come up my driveway one day, no one can say what I might need or not need. I live on a hill; it's doubtful a flood could hit my home but I might need a canoe anyway - because it's not impossible. I measure my own risks, the likelihood of those risks based on my own understanding of them, and consider my finances and then I prepare for what makes sense to ME and to ME alone - well, me and my wife. I can't prepare for absolutely everything and I won't just prepare for nothing. Where I land in between is MY choice and no one has the right to tell me for what I can and cannot prepare.

Got some Tidal Wave insurance for sale just for you. And who knows, maybe you should think about having a Nitro 600 rifle for the next rampaging Elephant but I can sell you insurance against that happening as well.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

Yes, I am one of those highly trained civilians. Even at my advanced age I still outshoot 99% of the cops I compete against.

I also am a long range precision shooter. I use a Steyr SSG PII with double set triggers and a Kahles ZF84 scope. Old school, but it works. I get 100% hits on the standard 1000 yard target all the way to 1200 yards with the Federal Premium 175 gr Match ammo.

I won't bother to tell you how far out I can connect with my .50.

Yeah, you were probably still in diapers when I shot my first Palma Match, so I doubt we have ever been on a range together, but if you ever trained at Pickle Meadows in the 1970's or '80s, it's possible.

Like I said, I never served, but I trained a LOT of people who have.

Yah, and you slept in a Motel 6 one night. Got it.

 

[progressive hunter]

Facts...

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Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

 

[miketx]

Facts...

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View attachment 346685

View attachment 346686

View attachment 346687


Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

Yes, I am one of those highly trained civilians. Even at my advanced age I still outshoot 99% of the cops I compete against.

I also am a long range precision shooter. I use a Steyr SSG PII with double set triggers and a Kahles ZF84 scope. Old school, but it works. I get 100% hits on the standard 1000 yard target all the way to 1200 yards with the Federal Premium 175 gr Match ammo.

I won't bother to tell you how far out I can connect with my .50.

Yeah, you were probably still in diapers when I shot my first Palma Match, so I doubt we have ever been on a range together, but if you ever trained at Pickle Meadows in the 1970's or '80s, it's possible.

Like I said, I never served, but I trained a LOT of people who have.

Yah, and you slept in a Motel 6 one night. Got it.

Typical progtard buttstain babble.

 

[westwall]

Facts...

View attachment 346681

View attachment 346682

View attachment 346683


View attachment 346685

View attachment 346686

View attachment 346687


Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

I'm trained for one shot one kill,,and I've never been in the military,,,

Yes, that is always the goal, but as the records show, the best in the world, the USMC scout snipers, average 2.7 per kill.

But a friend of mine, who is a USAF pararescue probably said it best, "place the shot, assess the situation, repeat as necessary".

A true professional with dozens of real life missions under his belt.

 

[westwall]

That's why I still compete in IDPA shoots. Some of the best practice out there. I also have attended Gunsite going back to the Jeff Cooper days.

It's been interesting to see how the tactics and gun handling have changed over the years.

Just as the lockdowns were starting I was outfitting to join an IDPA club in Tulsa. After things settle I hope to start up. Where I live, there's nowhere to shoot for about 75+ miles but I think the IDPA stuff will be fun even if a challenging time commitment.

IDPA is a lot of fun, but truly excellent training for the real world, unlike IPSC.

 

[westwall]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

You can always tell the blowhards from the actual shooters, can't you. I shoot a LOT. I am real good. When I was younger I used to compete in the 3 gun matches and always did a credible job. But, in a real shooting situation the world changes. Shit happens, magazines fail, ammunition fails to fire, brass fails to eject, we practice so that when those things happen we react quickly, and properly. And. You miss. I don't miss often, but I still DO miss. That's why I have 20 and 30 round mags.


Not one of these "experts" has ever handled a gun. They don't know even the basics.

Yah, you never know when you are going to get an Elk armed with a Bazooka cornered in a Warehouse and you may need more than 15 rounds to bring him down.

Sounds like your style of hunting all right.

 

[Moonglow]

So where were all you good guys with guns while this was going on a week ago?

I thought this was why Americans are so safe?

They were where they were needed. At home, or banding together to protect they, and theirs. Thats why only Liberal Democrat strongholds got wiped out.

Mine didn't.

 

[westwall]

Facts...

View attachment 346681

View attachment 346682

View attachment 346683


View attachment 346685

View attachment 346686

View attachment 346687


Now if you progressives idiots want to keep making yourself look like idiots, go ahead.

Saw the pics. Now you "know why you need a AR15 and a 30 round magazine"? Hmmm. Wasn't 30 targets in any of those pictures. Hmmm. All possible targets less than 15 meters. Hmmm. Only one guy armed and that was with an expedient incendiary. Hmmm. Why, why, why? OK, I got it. You are undisciplined, quick to panic, and a lousy shot because you are untrained and you envision yourself as a crime fighter?

Funny how you think shooting a bad guy one time gets the job done. You watch too many movies and lame ass TV shows. The reality is far different.

Maybe I was trained 1 shot 1 kill? Maybe the ranges to possible target shown were well below minimum zero range for AR-15 and better handled by a pistol or shot gun, unless the plan to engage is spray and pray, as real shots should be aimed and with the sights that I am familiar with pretty well shuts down peripheral vision that may be important in those situations as this ain't Falujah. I believe in different tools for different jobs and that is the way I was trained and how I trained my people. Have nothing against AR-15, but it ain't the answer to everything just cause people have seen them on TV and think they are cool. I put a whole lot of 5.56 down range today. Unlikely you will teach me much about what it is good for and how many times I have to shoot unarmed rioters coming out of a store with clothes drape over one arm to take them down and me go to jail. You go ahead and convince somebody that didn't twenty years running ranges and training troops.

The only people who are trained for one shot, one kill, are USMC scout/snipers and other specialized military and police shooters.

And their average is 2.7 shots per kill. And they are shooting from ambush, and they have a spotter armed with an M4 or equivalent for close in defense.

Like I said, you watch too many movies. Your beliefs are not based on anything factual.

Not so. You watch too many movies. Not everything calls for volley fire. Many people are well trained and have trained others who were not snipers. This thread had a lot of holes in it, but not as many the the 8-1/2 x 11 target I shot this afternoon at 50 meters with my Walther PPQ, and that was just fooling around while we were were zeroing his new AR. There is not a personal weapon, crew served weapon or weapon system that I fired on active duty that I didn't become Expert on as graded by the Army and I have OICd more ranges than I could possibly count up over my career. Though not as good as I once was, my 50 meter zero targets on the AR-15 today were in 1-1/2 inch groups. My son did about as well. Don't bother trying to teach me about small arms marksmanship over the internet. I don't remember seeing you on a firing line.

Yes, I am one of those highly trained civilians. Even at my advanced age I still outshoot 99% of the cops I compete against.

I also am a long range precision shooter. I use a Steyr SSG PII with double set triggers and a Kahles ZF84 scope. Old school, but it works. I get 100% hits on the standard 1000 yard target all the way to 1200 yards with the Federal Premium 175 gr Match ammo.

I won't bother to tell you how far out I can connect with my .50.

Yeah, you were probably still in diapers when I shot my first Palma Match, so I doubt we have ever been on a range together, but if you ever trained at Pickle Meadows in the 1970's or '80s, it's possible.

Like I said, I never served, but I trained a LOT of people who have.

Yah, and you slept in a Motel 6 one night. Got it.

Oh hell no. I've slept in shitloads of Motel 6's, but don't get me started on those damned Ritz Carltons!

 

[Vastator]

So where were all you good guys with guns while this was going on a week ago?

I thought this was why Americans are so safe?

Where are we? In red state areas where you scum are not rioting and burning and murdering. Our sheriff here was already made statements that if that shit comes here and gets out of their control, we can do what we have too.

Same here. There's a reason this shit only happens in Libtopia...

So where were all you good guys with guns while this was going on a week ago?

I thought this was why Americans are so safe?

They were where they were needed. At home, or banding together to protect they, and theirs. Thats why only Liberal Democrat strongholds got wiped out.

Mine didn't.

I didn’t say “all”...

 

[Deplorable Yankee]

We should abolish guns and the police for a brighter future and social justice

Prisons to
if they have no prisons and they talk about Banishing" misbehaving peopl"e from the community to New" rehabilitation centers" where" education "will be key

why does that kinda sound familiar to somethings right out of a historybook ?....that hasn't been burned yet ......

nahhhhhh ....what could possibly go wrong comrade
They've run computer models anyway where it always point to stunning and brave success ....the PhD experts going on cnn and buzzfeed are all in agreement to

 

[White 6]

The mostly do more or less volley fire. Most of those people, hell most of my troops were not expert. A lot of them did not even like going to the range even when qualifying. There are more that qualify "Marksman" than "Sharpshooter" or "Expert". Not all experts become snipers or even try to. I never did. It is just something I did and do reasonably proficiently. I had Sergeants under me that competed in the tournaments and were a lot better than me and were not snipers either. I never had a sniper under my command, even back near the beginning in my Armored Reconnaissance Scout Platoon Ldr days. Can't say for sure I ever even met one.

Ah.. Sergeants under you. 2nd Lieutenant White. Got it.

So you actually don't believe in 1 shot 1 kill and you know it's a crock of shit but it's the standard you want civilians defending their homes from looters and rioters to use. You want to restrict their options to "exactly enough" for some hypothetical scenario that you can't define but you know doesn't take 30 rounds of ammo if they can outshoot every infantry platoon in the history of the Army.

I don't believe shit you say about your service. A person couldn't be as ignorant as you are and have served doing what you say you've done.

Ah.., You do know that all officers started the officer ranks at entry level officer ranks before progressing. Very good. Of course, some of us wore stripes before wearing bars. Nice try sport.

Do believe in 1 shot 1 kill. Started early hunting squirrel on the farm using a .22 with my dad. He didn't believe in wasting ammunition and would not give me more if I was not hitting at times. Other kids fathers had the same training methods. It works. Oh, and you haven't heard me talk about restricting anybody. Ever. Somehow I doubt you have ever been in an infantry platoon or any other type platoon, although you never said you were. Were you aware one of the basic tenets of the trade is to not become decisively engaged, as you cannot be performing your mission of probing forward and on the flanks locating the enemy if you are pinned down, while the main enemy bypasses your position to attack your main body's flanks while you are pinned down by a small enemy force in a superior position during recon operations? Sometimes better to call for immediate suppression HE/Smoke from mortar Platoon or FA to cover your move, maintaining ability to direct fire, lift and shift and let the tanks do the heavy lifting on well planned superior positions. It's a basic Armor thing.
Nobody cares about what you believe. Again, thanks for playing, sport.