Feds and Militias stand off over cattle seizures.

[Gadawg73]

In short the guy refused to pay the grazing fees and owes a million dollars to the government.

He should have his property seized. **** him I pay may taxes and fees even if I don't agree with them.

You can't put a lien on the property of someone for not paying FINES to the government.
There never was a contract so how could there be fees?

 

[Skull Pilot]

In short the guy refused to pay the grazing fees and owes a million dollars to the government.

He should have his property seized. **** him I pay may taxes and fees even if I don't agree with them.

You can put a lien on the property of someone for not paying FINES to the government.
There never was a contract so how could there be fees?

Do you sign a contract every time you pay a fee to enter a government owned national park?

Or any government fee for that matter?

 

[gipper]

True but all Bundy had to do was get his cattle off of property that legally he was not supposed to have them on.
Why does he get a free pass?

He did not get a free pass. He has to pay for the use of government land.

He chose not to pay and will suffer the consequences. Those consequences should not include armed federal agents attacking him. It should all be settled in the courts.

As some have pointed out, all the government had to do was put a lien on the property and collect the debt when the time comes.

Uh, it has already been settled in the courts.
Where have you been?
The order was for him to comply with the RULING OF THE COURT.
LOL, a lien on his property on an order for him to vacate his cattle off of Federal land?

You misunderstand.

The government places liens on private property all the time. It does not require an army to impose and collect liens. For example, if you fail to pay property taxes, liens are accessed and collected without the need for violence.

Now on to the other issue. Could it be that this action by the feds was instigated by Dirty Harry Reid for his benefit? Seems likely considering most politicians are nothing more than operators of a crime syndicate.

 

[regent]

Seems this is the message Bundy and his followers are trying to get across to the American people:

A poor destitute rancher is trying to survive by allowing his sick, starving baby cow to go on his own property just so the sick starving baby cow might eat a few blades of grass, and the liberal government gets all upset claiming they own the Bundy property. If the government only allowed that baby cow to eat those few blades of grass most of America's economic and other problems would be solved. Other brave Americans are supporting Bundy to uphold Americanism and fight Obama, Stalin, Hitler and the communists. It is also a chance for the supporters to show everybody they can carry guns and not kill people.

 

[Gadawg73]

In short the guy refused to pay the grazing fees and owes a million dollars to the government.

He should have his property seized. **** him I pay may taxes and fees even if I don't agree with them.

You can put a lien on the property of someone for not paying FINES to the government.
There never was a contract so how could there be fees?

Do you sign a contract every time you pay a fee to enter a government owned national park?

Or any government fee for that matter?

To graze cattle on Federal lands you do.
That is what this is all about.
BLM leases Federal land for those that want to graze cattle and they do so under a CONTRACT.
Bundy refused to do that.

 

[Gadawg73]

Seems this is the message Bundy and his followers are trying to get across to the American people:

A poor destitute rancher is trying to survive by allowing his sick, starving baby cow to go on his own property just so the sick starving baby cow might eat a few blades of grass, and the liberal government gets all upset claiming they own the Bundy property. If the government only allowed that baby cow to eat those few blades of grass most of America's economic and other problems would be solved. Other brave Americans are supporting Bundy to uphold Americanism and fight Obama, Stalin, Hitler and the communists. It is also a chance for the supporters to show everybody they can carry guns and not kill people.

Simple statement from a simple mind.

 

[Gadawg73]

The United States Constitution authorizes in clear specific language that Congress can set rules and regulations through agencies to manage all Federal lands including buying, selling, leasing and administering.
The BLM administers 250 million acres of public lands and manages livestock grazing on 160 million acres of public lands.
Amazing the uniformed dumb masses that believe this guy Bundy is some kind of new Super Hero phenomenon that all of a sudden appeared grazing his cattle legally on lands that no one regulates.
BLM administers EIGHTEEN THOUSAND leases for ranchers to graze their cattle on public lands. A lease is a contract. They issue permits with the leases on 21,000 allotments of Federal land for grazing cattle and sheep
WELL DUH
It is called The Taylor Grazing Act of 1934.
I have kin in Texas. Over grazing was a HUGE problem so the RANCHERS THAT RAISE THE CATTLE asked Congress to pass this law.
Damn son, how come the mental midgets of this country do not know these things?

 

[Katzndogz]

In short the guy refused to pay the grazing fees and owes a million dollars to the government.

He should have his property seized. **** him I pay may taxes and fees even if I don't agree with them.

You can put a lien on the property of someone for not paying FINES to the government.
There never was a contract so how could there be fees?

Do you sign a contract every time you pay a fee to enter a government owned national park?

Or any government fee for that matter?

Pretty much you do. You pay for an entrance fee, then get a ticket. On the back of the ticket are the terms of the contract that you agree to by the act of entering the park.

This is not true of all federal land though. Did the government have the right to arrest people pulling off the highway at an overlook? Because they were looking at federal property? No, but they did it anyway. At present, or perhaps last year, the government did not have the right to seize your home because you didn't pay a parking ticket. If a government official wants your home, it might happen today. Maybe a friend of that government official likes your view.

The Bundy issue isn't only one of fees, it is a matter of outrageous and oppressive government over reach. It is a breaking point, preceded by the government shut down of sidewalks, the persecution of Gibson Guitar, the government seizing land because of a birthday party in a barn, fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars a day because of permitted pond on private property. It isn't only Bundy. It's all of it. It's veterans tearing down barriers to their own monuments. It's the government arbitrarily redrawing land boundaries and stealing 90,000 acres of private property. It's all of it and it has been going on for years. The people are fed up.

 

[bendog]

You can put a lien on the property of someone for not paying FINES to the government.
There never was a contract so how could there be fees?

Do you sign a contract every time you pay a fee to enter a government owned national park?

Or any government fee for that matter?

Pretty much you do. You pay for an entrance fee, then get a ticket. On the back of the ticket are the terms of the contract that you agree to by the act of entering the park.

This is not true of all federal land though. Did the government have the right to arrest people pulling off the highway at an overlook? Because they were looking at federal property? No, but they did it anyway. At present, or perhaps last year, the government did not have the right to seize your home because you didn't pay a parking ticket. If a government official wants your home, it might happen today. Maybe a friend of that government official likes your view.

The Bundy issue isn't only one of fees, it is a matter of outrageous and oppressive government over reach. It is a breaking point, preceded by the government shut down of sidewalks, the persecution of Gibson Guitar, the government seizing land because of a birthday party in a barn, fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars a day because of permitted pond on private property. It isn't only Bundy. It's all of it. It's veterans tearing down barriers to their own monuments. It's the government arbitrarily redrawing land boundaries and stealing 90,000 acres of private property. It's all of it and it has been going on for years. The people are fed up.

a lunatic fringe is exorcised.

 

[P F Tinmore]

There were 53 ranchers in the area. Now there is one.

I think I see an agenda here.

 

[Iceweasel]

You can put a lien on the property of someone for not paying FINES to the government.
There never was a contract so how could there be fees?

Do you sign a contract every time you pay a fee to enter a government owned national park?

Or any government fee for that matter?

Pretty much you do. You pay for an entrance fee, then get a ticket. On the back of the ticket are the terms of the contract that you agree to by the act of entering the park.

This is not true of all federal land though. Did the government have the right to arrest people pulling off the highway at an overlook? Because they were looking at federal property? No, but they did it anyway. At present, or perhaps last year, the government did not have the right to seize your home because you didn't pay a parking ticket. If a government official wants your home, it might happen today. Maybe a friend of that government official likes your view.

The Bundy issue isn't only one of fees, it is a matter of outrageous and oppressive government over reach. It is a breaking point, preceded by the government shut down of sidewalks, the persecution of Gibson Guitar, the government seizing land because of a birthday party in a barn, fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars a day because of permitted pond on private property. It isn't only Bundy. It's all of it. It's veterans tearing down barriers to their own monuments. It's the government arbitrarily redrawing land boundaries and stealing 90,000 acres of private property. It's all of it and it has been going on for years. The people are fed up.

Amen.

 

[Gadawg73]

He did not get a free pass. He has to pay for the use of government land.

He chose not to pay and will suffer the consequences. Those consequences should not include armed federal agents attacking him. It should all be settled in the courts.

As some have pointed out, all the government had to do was put a lien on the property and collect the debt when the time comes.

Uh, it has already been settled in the courts.
Where have you been?
The order was for him to comply with the RULING OF THE COURT.
LOL, a lien on his property on an order for him to vacate his cattle off of Federal land?

You misunderstand.

The government places liens on private property all the time. It does not require an army to impose and collect liens. For example, if you fail to pay property taxes, liens are accessed and collected without the need for violence.

Now on to the other issue. Could it be that this action by the feds was instigated by Dirty Harry Reid for his benefit? Seems likely considering most politicians are nothing more than operators of a crime syndicate.

You forgot to list the government can put a lien on property for someone that never entered into a contract for grazing cattle.
Because you know that you can not lien property for that.
You can NEVER put a lien on any property in the United States of America on any property for fees owed the government.
Income taxes are under a different amendment to the Constitution.
You know better but prefer to offer your BS as a dodge, twist and distortion of the facts.

 

[beagle9]

If cattle are on my land and the owner refuses to remove them then guess what the law is sports fans.
I can take whatever recourse there is under a COURT ORDER to remove the cattle from my land.
Facts sure are a ***** to those that make excuses.

Yep you are correct, but the issue in which I am interested in, is to whether or not Harry Reid was the cause of this event ? If he is behind it with his wanting to get these people out of the way for a deal he has cut with the Chineese, then the Americans for whom he was (from behind the scenes attacking indirectly), needs to know the truth of the matter. They may already know the truth, and that is why the militia figured they had a case for defending the Bundy's when it came time to do so, because they saw it as a bullying case by the feds upon an American who they figured would be eaten alive in such a case all by himself in defense of.

Is there any truth maybe to a huge conflict of interest being somehow involved between Reid's office and the rancher concerning this land usage in which these cows were grazing on ?

If Reid wasn't involved, and there was no deal in proof there of, then Cliven Bundy may have done wrong by wanting to refuse the BLM from their right to enforce a court order on him. Now the tactic of the BLM was also wrong in the way that they enforced the order, because bullying by the federal government should be a huge no no, and they should have to face severe punishment for their actions in which could have gotten people killed including their own employee's. The bully who is running that show should be FIRED ASAP. Cliven Bundy should have been presented a court order by agents in a orderely and patient manor, and if he did'nt comply with the order, then he and only him should have been detained by local officials until another hearing could be set, and further penalties administered in the case where as he would be found to be wrong in such a case. Meanwhile the cows should have been left to graze until the case was settled completely in court, and agreed upon by all parties involved.

 

[Gadawg73]

There were 53 ranchers in the area. Now there is one.

I think I see an agenda here.

Cattle ranchers lobbied Congress in 1934 to write The Taylor Grazing Act.
Educate yourself and go read it.
Or remain ignorant.
Cattle ranchers WANT rules and regulations so that they do not have over grazing of public lands.
Facts sure are a ***** when you offer an opinion not knowing anything about the subject.

 

[Gadawg73]

If cattle are on my land and the owner refuses to remove them then guess what the law is sports fans.
I can take whatever recourse there is under a COURT ORDER to remove the cattle from my land.
Facts sure are a ***** to those that make excuses.

Yep you are correct, but the issue in which I am interested in, is to whether or not Harry Reid was the cause of this event ? If he is behind it with his wanting to get these people out of the way for a deal he has cut with the Chineese, then the Americans for whom he was (from behind the scenes attacking indirectly), needs to know the truth of the matter. They may already know the truth, and that is why the militia figured they had a case for defending the Bundy's when it came time to do so, because they saw it as a bullying case by the feds upon an American who they figured would be eaten alive in such a case all by himself in defense of.

Is there any truth maybe to a huge conflict of interest being somehow involved between Reid's office and the rancher concerning this land usage in which these cows were grazing on ?

If Reid wasn't involved, and there was no deal in proof there of, then Cliven Bundy may have done wrong by wanting to refuse the BLM from their right to enforce a court order on him. Now the tactic of the BLM was also wrong in the way that they enforced the order, because bullying by the federal government should be a huge no no, and they should have to face severe punishment for their actions in which could have gotten people killed including their own employee's. The bully who is running that show should be FIRED ASAP. Cliven Bundy should have been presented a court order by agents in a orderely and patient manor, and if he did'nt comply with the order, then he and only him should have been detained by local officials until another hearing could be set, and further penalties administered in the case where as he would be found to be wrong in such a case. Meanwhile the cows should have been left to graze until the case was settled completely in court, and agreed upon by all parties involved.

Go read Breitbart. That site debunked the Reid myth.

 

[bendog]

There were 53 ranchers in the area. Now there is one.

I think I see an agenda here.

You do. We've become a less small biz agrarian society, and the focus on the use of federally owned land has changed to energy production with the least neg environmental impact possible

 

[beagle9]

Do you sign a contract every time you pay a fee to enter a government owned national park?

Or any government fee for that matter?

Pretty much you do. You pay for an entrance fee, then get a ticket. On the back of the ticket are the terms of the contract that you agree to by the act of entering the park.

This is not true of all federal land though. Did the government have the right to arrest people pulling off the highway at an overlook? Because they were looking at federal property? No, but they did it anyway. At present, or perhaps last year, the government did not have the right to seize your home because you didn't pay a parking ticket. If a government official wants your home, it might happen today. Maybe a friend of that government official likes your view.

The Bundy issue isn't only one of fees, it is a matter of outrageous and oppressive government over reach. It is a breaking point, preceded by the government shut down of sidewalks, the persecution of Gibson Guitar, the government seizing land because of a birthday party in a barn, fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars a day because of permitted pond on private property. It isn't only Bundy. It's all of it. It's veterans tearing down barriers to their own monuments. It's the government arbitrarily redrawing land boundaries and stealing 90,000 acres of private property. It's all of it and it has been going on for years. The people are fed up.

Amen.

Good points, and that is how people could look at it all, where as just like lawyers want to site case law in case after case, and they do this in order to win a case by precedent, well that could be done here as well couldn't it ? I mean in showing that the government is highly inconsistant in their policy or in the upholding of their policies, and therefore they pick and choose their battles based on weaknesses that are found in many cases now ? The American people have become weak, and this may be just the tip of the iceburg in what is to come in America, and people are beginning to see it in the oppression that they are being subjected to more and more and more, whether it be in taxes or in fee's and in reg's.

 

[beagle9]

If cattle are on my land and the owner refuses to remove them then guess what the law is sports fans.
I can take whatever recourse there is under a COURT ORDER to remove the cattle from my land.
Facts sure are a ***** to those that make excuses.

Yep you are correct, but the issue in which I am interested in, is to whether or not Harry Reid was the cause of this event ? If he is behind it with his wanting to get these people out of the way for a deal he has cut with the Chineese, then the Americans for whom he was (from behind the scenes attacking indirectly), needs to know the truth of the matter. They may already know the truth, and that is why the militia figured they had a case for defending the Bundy's when it came time to do so, because they saw it as a bullying case by the feds upon an American who they figured would be eaten alive in such a case all by himself in defense of.

Is there any truth maybe to a huge conflict of interest being somehow involved between Reid's office and the rancher concerning this land usage in which these cows were grazing on ?

If Reid wasn't involved, and there was no deal in proof there of, then Cliven Bundy may have done wrong by wanting to refuse the BLM from their right to enforce a court order on him. Now the tactic of the BLM was also wrong in the way that they enforced the order, because bullying by the federal government should be a huge no no, and they should have to face severe punishment for their actions in which could have gotten people killed including their own employee's. The bully who is running that show should be FIRED ASAP. Cliven Bundy should have been presented a court order by agents in a orderely and patient manor, and if he did'nt comply with the order, then he and only him should have been detained by local officials until another hearing could be set, and further penalties administered in the case where as he would be found to be wrong in such a case. Meanwhile the cows should have been left to graze until the case was settled completely in court, and agreed upon by all parties involved.

Go read Breitbart. That site debunked the Reid myth.

Thanks

 

[regent]

If cattle are on my land and the owner refuses to remove them then guess what the law is sports fans.
I can take whatever recourse there is under a COURT ORDER to remove the cattle from my land.
Facts sure are a ***** to those that make excuses.

Yep you are correct, but the issue in which I am interested in, is to whether or not Harry Reid was the cause of this event ? If he is behind it with his wanting to get these people out of the way for a deal he has cut with the Chineese, then the Americans for whom he was (from behind the scenes attacking indirectly), needs to know the truth of the matter. They may already know the truth, and that is why the militia figured they had a case for defending the Bundy's when it came time to do so, because they saw it as a bullying case by the feds upon an American who they figured would be eaten alive in such a case all by himself in defense of.

Is there any truth maybe to a huge conflict of interest being somehow involved between Reid's office and the rancher concerning this land usage in which these cows were grazing on ?

If Reid wasn't involved, and there was no deal in proof there of, then Cliven Bundy may have done wrong by wanting to refuse the BLM from their right to enforce a court order on him. Now the tactic of the BLM was also wrong in the way that they enforced the order, because bullying by the federal government should be a huge no no, and they should have to face severe punishment for their actions in which could have gotten people killed including their own employee's. The bully who is running that show should be FIRED ASAP. Cliven Bundy should have been presented a court order by agents in a orderely and patient manor, and if he did'nt comply with the order, then he and only him should have been detained by local officials until another hearing could be set, and further penalties administered in the case where as he would be found to be wrong in such a case. Meanwhile the cows should have been left to graze until the case was settled completely in court, and agreed upon by all parties involved.

It would seem that this issue is not what the law should be, but rather what the law is in fact, and all of the "what ifs" are not part of the package. If Bundy wants to do "what ifs" he should go back to the court and present his case, in the meantime Bundy should obey the law as would most. Seem this case has been going on for some years now and Bundy and his lawyers have probably used every stalling tactic they could create.

 

[Iceweasel]

Good points, and that is how people could look at it all, where as just like lawyers want to site case law in case after case, and they do this in order to win a case by precedent, well that could be done here as well couldn't it ? I mean in showing that the government is highly inconsistant in their policy or in the upholding of their policies, and therefore they pick and choose their battles based on weaknesses that are found in many cases now ? The American people have become weak, and this may be just the tip of the iceburg in what is to come in America, and people are beginning to see it in the oppression that they are being subjected to more and more and more, whether it be in taxes or in fee's and in reg's.

If a cop pepper sprays an occupy guy for illegal use of a park or blocking a through way they foam over at the mouth and scream bloody murder. In Bundy's case an army of armed men show up and it's just the government doing its' job. Nothing inconsistent about that!