FB posts on Seizing/Redistributing funds: Is extreme Wealth a punishable moral offense

[progressive hunter]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

you so funny when youre just makin shit up,,,

 

[Dragonlady]

What does God say about the issue of wealth building and power building through wealth? How can a nation claim to follow a God of Abraham and the Son of God Jesus Christ when both spoke on the subject and said it was not good to keep all that wealth that belongs to God in the first place, you should share the blessings of the planet that belongs to God. Wait, God is the original Marxist...stick that in yer soup and eat it.

God was no where close to a marxist.

You should learn some reading comprehension.

He never said build a system to tax others out of what is theirs he said to share what is yours.

View attachment 469178

Ummm, God taxed them....to take care of the poor and hungry, through tithing. MANDATORY TITHES.

That is why the Pharisee complained about the Roman taxes they had to pay.....because they were already paying taxes/ tithes to their Jewish govt and having to pay Caesar as well was double taxation..... and Christ asked him who's head is on that coin? ....the guy answered Caesar....and Jesus told him to give unto God, what is God's and give unto Caesar, what is his.

Wrong.

Tithes went to the church not the poor. By the standard jesus used all of our tax dollars should go to george washington as it is his picture on the dollar bill.

Exactly! Taxation is not a religious subject.

The reason churches are exempt from taxes is because they were supposed to be taking care of the poor. The problem in this day and age for most small congregations, and especially for big city congregations, the costs of maintaining our buildings and paying for ministers, caretakers, and secretaries, most of the donations go to paying those costs, leaving few dollars to help the poor. Our downtown Toronto congregation was kept going by our trust funds, and by renting out large portions of our complex to non-profits and and associations which helped the poor. Just the heating bill for our large complex of Sanctuary, offices, and recreation centre, was $50,000. We sold off our parking lot to a company building a community health clinic, to top up the trust funds.

The congregations out in rural Ontario, where I live now, have much lower expenses, and much more generous donors. Their congregations are larger, younger, and richer. In Toronto, our annual "Christmas Tea and Bazaar" raised $2500 in a good year. The annual Christmas Tea and Bake sale out here, raised $16,000. Many own "manse" properties for the Minister so the housing allowance portion of the salary structure is covered.

 

[Soupnazi630]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

Exploitation of the labor of others is a good and morally virtuous act so long as it is doen with voluntary consent of both parties.

All systems to include collectivist systems ( communism/socialism ) exploit the labor of the workers but under such evil systems as collectivist systems that voluntary choice is eremoved and it is forced on both the employee and employer.

The nation has no income to claim a percentage of yet another massive and stupid flaw on the left. Wealth is nota zero sum gain and people do not recoeve a slice of the same economic pie. People live much better today with superior standards of living in the entire economic strata and that is due to capitalism.

 

[Soupnazi630]

What does God say about the issue of wealth building and power building through wealth? How can a nation claim to follow a God of Abraham and the Son of God Jesus Christ when both spoke on the subject and said it was not good to keep all that wealth that belongs to God in the first place, you should share the blessings of the planet that belongs to God. Wait, God is the original Marxist...stick that in yer soup and eat it.

God was no where close to a marxist.

You should learn some reading comprehension.

He never said build a system to tax others out of what is theirs he said to share what is yours.

View attachment 469178

Ummm, God taxed them....to take care of the poor and hungry, through tithing. MANDATORY TITHES.

That is why the Pharisee complained about the Roman taxes they had to pay.....because they were already paying taxes/ tithes to their Jewish govt and having to pay Caesar as well was double taxation..... and Christ asked him who's head is on that coin? ....the guy answered Caesar....and Jesus told him to give unto God, what is God's and give unto Caesar, what is his.

Wrong.

Tithes went to the church not the poor. By the standard jesus used all of our tax dollars should go to george washington as it is his picture on the dollar bill.

Exactly! Taxation is not a religious subject.

The reason churches are exempt from taxes is because they were supposed to be taking care of the poor. The problem in this day and age for most small congregations, and especially for big city congregations, the costs of maintaining our buildings and paying for ministers, caretakers, and secretaries, most of the donations go to paying those costs, leaving few dollars to help the poor. Our downtown Toronto congregation was kept going by our trust funds, and by renting out large portions of our complex to non-profits and and associations which helped the poor. Just the heating bill for our large complex of Sanctuary, offices, and recreation centre, was $50,000. We sold off our parking lot to a company building a community health clinic, to top up the trust funds.

The congregations out in rural Ontario, where I live now, have much lower expenses, and much more generous donors. Their congregations are larger, younger, and richer. In Toronto, our annual "Christmas Tea and Bazaar" raised $2500 in a good year. The annual Christmas Tea and Bake sale out here, raised $16,000. Many own "manse" properties for the Minister so the housing allowance portion of the salary structure is covered.

No that is not the reason they are exempt from taxation they are exempt due to the reality of seperation of church and state.

Truly civlilized nations would encode and enforce the same seperation between business and state.

 

[Dragonlady]

What does God say about the issue of wealth building and power building through wealth? How can a nation claim to follow a God of Abraham and the Son of God Jesus Christ when both spoke on the subject and said it was not good to keep all that wealth that belongs to God in the first place, you should share the blessings of the planet that belongs to God. Wait, God is the original Marxist...stick that in yer soup and eat it.

God was no where close to a marxist.

You should learn some reading comprehension.

He never said build a system to tax others out of what is theirs he said to share what is yours.

View attachment 469178

Ummm, God taxed them....to take care of the poor and hungry, through tithing. MANDATORY TITHES.

That is why the Pharisee complained about the Roman taxes they had to pay.....because they were already paying taxes/ tithes to their Jewish govt and having to pay Caesar as well was double taxation..... and Christ asked him who's head is on that coin? ....the guy answered Caesar....and Jesus told him to give unto God, what is God's and give unto Caesar, what is his.

Wrong.

Tithes went to the church not the poor. By the standard jesus used all of our tax dollars should go to george washington as it is his picture on the dollar bill.

Exactly! Taxation is not a religious subject.

The reason churches are exempt from taxes is because they were supposed to be taking care of the poor. The problem in this day and age for most small congregations, and especially for big city congregations, the costs of maintaining our buildings and paying for ministers, caretakers, and secretaries, most of the donations go to paying those costs, leaving few dollars to help the poor. Our downtown Toronto congregation was kept going by our trust funds, and by renting out large portions of our complex to non-profits and and associations which helped the poor. Just the heating bill for our large complex of Sanctuary, offices, and recreation centre, was $50,000. We sold off our parking lot to a company building a community health clinic, to top up the trust funds.

The congregations out in rural Ontario, where I live now, have much lower expenses, and much more generous donors. Their congregations are larger, younger, and richer. In Toronto, our annual "Christmas Tea and Bazaar" raised $2500 in a good year. The annual Christmas Tea and Bake sale out here, raised $16,000. Many own "manse" properties for the Minister so the housing allowance portion of the salary structure is covered.

No that is not the reason they are exempt from taxation they are exempt due to the reality of seperation of church and state.

Truly civlilized nations would encode and enforce the same seperation between business and state.

You could not be more wrong. In fact since the government took over caring for the poor, there has been a movement afoot to tax churches on their revenues.

I think one of the biggest arguments in favour of taxation of churches, is the Mormon Church. It was recently revealed that the Mormon church has a massive multi billion dollar trust fund that they have accumulated from the proceeds of all the tithing. This trust fund is entirely tax free, and it’s being used, not to help the poor or to promote spiritually, but to hold and wield financial and political power in the secular world. It should be taxed.

Freedom from taxation was supposed to keep religion out of politics. Churches who attempted to wield political power, were threatened with being taxed for getting involved in politics. Today’s Republican Party is openly courting the independent churches on the religious right and encouraging political dissertations from the pulpit to get adherents to vote against Democrats.

Yes the black churches are driving people to the polls, but they’re not demonizing Republicans, in a really unhealthy way. The religious right think Democrats are the allies of Satan. Trump was sent by God.

These churches should be stripped of their tax free status for abusing their congregations in this manner.

 

[Soupnazi630]

What does God say about the issue of wealth building and power building through wealth? How can a nation claim to follow a God of Abraham and the Son of God Jesus Christ when both spoke on the subject and said it was not good to keep all that wealth that belongs to God in the first place, you should share the blessings of the planet that belongs to God. Wait, God is the original Marxist...stick that in yer soup and eat it.

God was no where close to a marxist.

You should learn some reading comprehension.

He never said build a system to tax others out of what is theirs he said to share what is yours.

View attachment 469178

Ummm, God taxed them....to take care of the poor and hungry, through tithing. MANDATORY TITHES.

That is why the Pharisee complained about the Roman taxes they had to pay.....because they were already paying taxes/ tithes to their Jewish govt and having to pay Caesar as well was double taxation..... and Christ asked him who's head is on that coin? ....the guy answered Caesar....and Jesus told him to give unto God, what is God's and give unto Caesar, what is his.

Wrong.

Tithes went to the church not the poor. By the standard jesus used all of our tax dollars should go to george washington as it is his picture on the dollar bill.

Exactly! Taxation is not a religious subject.

The reason churches are exempt from taxes is because they were supposed to be taking care of the poor. The problem in this day and age for most small congregations, and especially for big city congregations, the costs of maintaining our buildings and paying for ministers, caretakers, and secretaries, most of the donations go to paying those costs, leaving few dollars to help the poor. Our downtown Toronto congregation was kept going by our trust funds, and by renting out large portions of our complex to non-profits and and associations which helped the poor. Just the heating bill for our large complex of Sanctuary, offices, and recreation centre, was $50,000. We sold off our parking lot to a company building a community health clinic, to top up the trust funds.

The congregations out in rural Ontario, where I live now, have much lower expenses, and much more generous donors. Their congregations are larger, younger, and richer. In Toronto, our annual "Christmas Tea and Bazaar" raised $2500 in a good year. The annual Christmas Tea and Bake sale out here, raised $16,000. Many own "manse" properties for the Minister so the housing allowance portion of the salary structure is covered.

No that is not the reason they are exempt from taxation they are exempt due to the reality of seperation of church and state.

Truly civlilized nations would encode and enforce the same seperation between business and state.

You could not be more wrong. In fact since the government took over caring for the poor, there has been a movement afoot to tax churches on their revenues.

I think one of the biggest arguments in favour of taxation of churches, is the Mormon Church. It was recently revealed that the Mormon church has a massive multi billion dollar trust fund that they have accumulated from the proceeds of all the tithing. This trust fund is entirely tax free, and it’s being used, not to help the poor or to promote spiritually, but to hold and wield financial and political power in the secular world. It should be taxed.

Freedom from taxation was supposed to keep religion out of politics. Churches who attempted to wield political power, were threatened with being taxed for getting involved in politics. Today’s Republican Party is openly courting the independent churches on the religious right and encouraging political dissertations from the pulpit to get adherents to vote against Democrats.

Yes the black churches are driving people to the polls, but they’re not demonizing Republicans, in a really unhealthy way. The religious right think Democrats are the allies of Satan. Trump was sent by God.

These churches should be stripped of their tax free status for abusing their congregations in this manner.

I am not wrong.

there is no signifficant movement to tax churches only a small one and it started centuries ago. Such a movement would not constitute evidence for yuuour false premises anyways.

The government never took over caring for the poor especially from churches the government merely established dependency creating welfare programs which have done nothing.

Churches were not specifically meant to care for the poor private charity was whether from churches or individuals and in fact it worked better. Churches were tax exempt due to seperation of church and sgtate as they should be. That is historic fact. there is no reference ANYWHERE supporting your revisionist spin.

Nothing you have claimed is abuse of a congregation. Your claims are fallacies.

 

[Muhammed]

The tax the rich people sound more jealous than compassionate to me. They seem mad at the rich

We ought to be mad. Been handing them massive tax cuts for decades and we are still waiting for their almost astounding gains in wealth to trickle down.

No one is waiting it has rained on us for years.

Clearly not the case. If the economy worked like conservatives say it does there would be corresponding gains in wealth from the bottom to the top but for everyone who works for a living wage growth has been flat at best.

Bullshit. Trump policies created a strong labor market and as a result real wages were going up.

 

[Dragonlady]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

you so funny when youre just makin shit up,,,

Once again, you display your abject ignorance on all matters economic. Really, you wouldn't look nearly so stupid if you just said nothing. When you make a point of insulting me without providing a single argument to rebut my post, you're simply saying "I know nothing about this topic, so I'll just fling my monkey shit".

Stupid, cluless, and can't even throw a decent insult. No wonder you spend all of your time on a message board.

 

[Mikeoxenormous]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

Exploiting the labor of their workers? Bwaaahhaaaaa....Those working at Amazon werent forced to work there at the point of a gun, but by a mutual agreement. You are such a stupid bitch, and lazy too. You are in other words a prog slave..

 

[progressive hunter]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

you so funny when youre just makin shit up,,,

Once again, you display your abject ignorance on all matters economic. Really, you wouldn't look nearly so stupid if you just said nothing. When you make a point of insulting me without providing a single argument to rebut my post, you're simply saying "I know nothing about this topic, so I'll just fling my monkey shit".

Stupid, cluless, and can't even throw a decent insult. No wonder you spend all of your time on a message board.

you just throwing insults kinda proves i'm right,,,AGAIN,,

of course you could always post links to your claims and prove me wrong,,,

 

[Muhammed]

The tax the rich people sound more jealous than compassionate to me. They seem mad at the rich

Exactly. Look at the leftists on this board. Nearly every one of them is an extremely envious narcissist with an overblown sense of entitlement. They have self-destructive personality traits, habits and patterns of thinking that are not conducive to financial success, good health or intelligence.

 

[emilynghiem]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

Yes, my responses to these posts include making a distinction between
1. Corporate Welfare, where OTHER taxpayers' money goes to Corporate entities and interests (such as the billions in payouts to corporate insurance "up front" with the ACA in order to get it to pass by the insurance lobbies)
2. Vs People and Companies KEEPING more of the revenue they generated and paid in.

I have a number of liberal friends with the mindset that ALL money made or paid in is under govt regulation if it was earned in America.

They forget that using tax money that other people pay in means policies must REPRESENT those people equally. (That's why health care policies biased either prochoice or prolife FAIL to hold up as long as one side usurps either funds or endorsement through public authority WITHOUT consent or against beliefs of other taxpayers, instead of recognizing the equal choice to fund or defund either abortion, birth control, the death penalty, transgender surgery, reparative therapy, and other biased policies not everyone believes in or agrees to mandate through govt.)

I even had some contest this idea that taxpayers have any say in where money goes after it is paid: once govt has it, then it is up to majority rule to decide and my insistence on "Constitutional LIMITS and RULES on what Govt can and cannot regulate (such as protections of religious freedom and civil liberties requiring due process) do not apply! Majority rule is justification for passing ANYTHING (like the Unconstitutional DOMA and ACA acts) which then require a longer process of repeal or reform through judicial or legislative means.

Had this discussion, and rarely find fellow liberals who can grasp rights such as health care reserved to people or states, not federal govt without due process or Constitutional Amendment.

Most do not believe indivduals can exercise and enforce equal rights and protections equally on local or state levels, but believe in depending on "centralized federal govt" for collective authority to defend onesided political beliefs (more like STATISM than true socialism), which amounts to majority rule by bullying through Party and Corporatized Media to push narratives and agenda through govt including Congress and Courts while neglecting, denying and overriding Constitutional limits and process of govt designed to protect and represent the people and states from overreaching mandates pushed by special interests abusing govt and collective authority this way.

Thank you Dragonlady
for your detailed response and distinctions, but it still points to the fact that the people, even heading huge corporate entities, need to AGREE on the Constitutional rules governing tax laws,
or they don't have to agree to earn money and manage it through business here.

People can also vote to regulate corporate licensing and requirements through STATE charters where the SOS or AG can have these revoked in case of abuses if state laws are written well.

And health care and education can be more democratically and cost effectively provided LOCALLY so citizens retain more direct say in policies affecting residents per district and state, by using tax breaks to reward investment directly into development. Instead of trying to rely on central federal govt to control policies for all states and people across the nation.

Federal authorities, regulations and grants can still be used to MATCH local investments and to ensure SITES for hospitals, schools, elderly care and clinics meet population demands by electoral districts so this protects equal access.

But the POLICIES and programs run through schools, prisons and other public facilities should remain democratically managed by states and people through local representation, in order to meet Constitutional standards on all levels, not compromising individual liberties, protections and due process by abusing collective authority, resources or influence as is happening now if we don't enforce and respect Constitutional limits created for this purpose of equal justice and protections of the laws.

THAT is what should be enforced to stop Corporate abuses of Govt. Not two sides fighting to abuse govt to bully the other, where both end up violating Civil and Constitutional rights and protections.

Two wrongs don't fix anything but just mask and distract, and double the cost of existing problems by making them worse!

Www.ethics-commission.net

 

[Dragonlady]

The tax the rich people sound more jealous than compassionate to me. They seem mad at the rich

We ought to be mad. Been handing them massive tax cuts for decades and we are still waiting for their almost astounding gains in wealth to trickle down.

No one is waiting it has rained on us for years.

Clearly not the case. If the economy worked like conservatives say it does there would be corresponding gains in wealth from the bottom to the top but for everyone who works for a living wage growth has been flat at best.

Bullshit. Trump policies created a strong labor market and as a result real wages were going up.

Not for 40% of Americans:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/02/24/this-chart-is-best-explanation-middle-class-finances-you-will-ever-see/

They lived paycheck to paycheck before the pandemic. Then their worst nightmare came true

Many Americans had barely been making ends meet before the coronavirus tipped the U.S. into a deep recession. Now, millions are falling into poverty.

www.cnbc.com

https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2019/02/26/working-parents-are-an-endangered-species-thats-why-democrats-are-talking-child-care/

 

[Dragonlady]

The tax the rich people sound more jealous than compassionate to me. They seem mad at the rich

Exactly. Look at the leftists on this board. Nearly every one of them is an extremely envious narcissist with an overblown sense of entitlement. They have self-destructive personality traits, habits and patterns of thinking that are not conducive to financial success, good health or intelligence.

Projecting much??? The leftists on this board don't call themselves "Broke Loser", "Meathead", or "Progressive Hunter". They're not complaining about how they can't get ahead. Most of the leftists on this board are like me, older, retired, living well after a life of hard word and financial security.

Leftists on this board aren't talking about "getting rid of" all conservatives. But that is what I'm reading every day. Republican fiscal policies have failed utterly. That's why your economy keeps crashing. But you want more of the same. Just to preserve white rule - the same white rule that has brought you this low.

Makes no sense at all.

 

[emilynghiem]

Here's another one, but check out my responses. I'm using this to network and put together model solutions that can help both left and right, both prochoice and prolife, fund the programs they want.

 

[emilynghiem]

Another link shared by a progressive friend who believes the injustice is so great, any correction MUST include a greater tax on the wealthiest billionaires. I argued it is still better to involve their consent on tax policies, to ensure money is spent on such cost effective sustainable and positive plans that the business leaders would AGREE to support them by investing grants, loans, donations or taxes/tax breaks.

Here is his link:

How to Fix Economic Inequality?

An Overview of Policies for the United States and Other High-Income Economies

www.piie.com

Here is my reply:

This still measures by quantity and not quality of what money is buying. Someone making less but investing in ownership is relatively different from someone making more but not investing in sustainable ways that grow economically. For example, people working for less money but in a self sustaining efficient cooperative would be better off, and their economy would not require as much income since they waste less and don't produce as much waste or cost to society, as say, a big money generating production company that pays its workers well but damages the environment from unsustainable practices instead of smaller local economies that support their communities on their own resources. The impact of COOPERATIVES isn't studied, compared or included in these numbers. Again, I find the effect of EQUAL OWNERSHIP changes the dynamics in both ways that can be measured and show up economically, and in ways that may not show but affect us spiritually in improving the HEALTH of people and the environment. Overall Carl, I find the "scarcity mentality" unhealthy where it teaches people "you are a victim who cannot be equal if other people have more money" versus the Abundance Mentality that teaches you can acquire equal knowledge to share equal authority or ownership. I believe in equal distribution of knowledge of laws and access to training and mentorship. That is my version of redistribution, where it is based on replicating effective models such as cooperatives and teaching ownership, and where the Voluntary participation is part of the Empowerment. Now if people do not feel confident enough to participate UNLESS govt backs it up and "guarantees funding" on a long enough term basis to ensure the development stages and goals are reached, yes, we can go through govt to establish public policy. But again, this is more stable and sustainable if people AGREE to the solutions (and how to fund or finance them over time). If you keep coming at these programs "under the premise they must be FORCED on others without their consent" I argue that causes division rejection resentment and negativity which makes it unsustainable. It is like the difference between forced prearranged marriages that work financially, and couples learn to love each other when the families are well matched, this can be economically stabilizing and works for generations. But when people CHOOSE to marry and support each other and a family out of spiritual love and agreement to the commitment, that QUALITY of life and relations is different. It may have ups and downs where people have a choice to stay or leave. But the free will and nature of humans to consent or dissent is the basis of civil laws, contracts, govt and peaceful society. It may cause sacrifice that we can make errors and do very selfish destructive things by abusing our free will. But the lessons we learn that enable us to make decisions by reason and free will are far superior than going by blind faith, being forced by either church or state authority to act certain ways or face fines or punishment. At some point we grow to maturity and learn to love and contribute because we value the impact on humanity and society. As a believer God's will and love is so compelling that we will get there by free choice to accept, I will vote on the side of Christ to compel us by conscience. And this allows us to form consensus on govt policy based on what we agree is for the best interests of ourselves, the public and humanity. Equal Justice under law motivates people first, then govt follows the authority of people joined in unity in Christ. Not the other way around. Even if we use govt to compel mandates and policies, we must consent to the rules conditions and process or it's abuse of power. That spiritual poverty, abuse and oppression is the cause of disparity in all other realms. So whatever it is you seek to measure using the numbers and stats in these charts, the spiritual cause and solution STILL needs to be addressed in order to end the cause of disparity, injustice and suffering. Not from the outside or imposed by govt from top down. We fix problems internally and in all relations and institutions between people, so collectively we end abuse, oppression and disparity in all forms and formats, even the ones not measured or included here. We need to address ALL levels and ALL solutions. I agree you point out the problems, but we don't agree why some solutions are better than others. We will work on that, by starting with points we do agree on which is plenty to get the ball rolling in that direction. Thanks Carl I will share with Don and introduce you so you and he can share all your research and focus on best practices to change the trajectory most effectively. Love and Happy Easter and Resurrection to you! Yours in Christ, Emily

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

I am going to add posts on here I have been seeing from friends, insisting that exceptional wealth is justification for govt to redistribute this to save lives from poverty or lack of health care. As if there is no better solution?

I have posted the usual responses:
1. When is making or saving more money than other people a punishable offense?
2. Shouldn't the taxpayers affected by tax laws be able to consent?
Where is the DUE PROCESS to PROVE which people collected wealth by abusive means or incurred costs, damages or debts to others for which they owe payment?
3. Why isn't the focus on finding better, sustainable ways to provide health care or other lifesaving assistance WITHOUT abusing govt to seize wealth of people without their permission?
Where is the motivation to stop govt waste or to collect back money owed from corporate corruption by people PROVEN to have abused taxpayer resources? Why punish wealthy people "as a class" for political convenience instead of targeting the ACTUAL wrongdoers that can be PROVEN to have committed wrongs, received profits they didn't earn as payouts that other taxpayers paid, and incurred debts?

Isn't it wrongful to COVET the wealth of others, by ASSUMING such people must be "greedy" and have done something abusive that justifies demanding their money based solely on the amount they have saved or earned. Isn't that judging and discriminating by class?

Etc. Etc.

Is anyone else seeing posts like that from friends who are pushing to use the Liberal bias in Govt and Congress to demand policies like this, raising taxes based on wealth instead of going after the actual problems or parties responsible for abuse, waste or reimbursement of taxpayer funds?

View attachment 469150

You assumption that the wealthy "earned" their billions is based on the notion that the labour codes and tax codes of the USA aren't set up to allow them to keep that money in the first place.

Billionaires get to be billionaires by exploiting the labour of their workers. I have no problem with people keeping the money they "earned", but Jeff Bezos is now busy getting states and cities to cut him billions of dollars in tax breaks, to locate his distribution centres in their cities. New York City would have had to build roads, expand the subway, and spend billions to locate the Amazon Campus in New York. Why should the taxpayers of New York City pay for this infrastructure?

At the same time that Bezos is financially benefitting from the pandemic to the tune of billions of dollars, he's fighting the unionization of his workers in one of the Southern States.

Using a tax code that funnels 80% of the wealth of the nation to the top 20% of wealthy individuals and corporations has seen the number of billionaires who came up through the Reagan tax code years, substantially increase, but at the same time, American workers now receive the same percentage of the income of the nation as they did in the 1800's in the Gilded Age when the Robber Barons ruled.

The government uses the tax and labour codes to decide how much of the income generated goes to the wealthy, and how much goes to the workers. Republican fiscal and tax policies give most of the income to the rich.

Your pathetic little country that contributes little.if anything to the world couldn't exist without the wealth produced by my country. Instead of constantly bashing my country,
A simple thank you will do.