Fascism
- Thread starter Wry Catcher
- Start date
Iceweasel
Diamond Member
That's true but it all depends on what kind of authority, military, police, religion, etc. you have so to compare the right wing in Nazi Germany to the right wing here and now is misleading or ignorant. I'm not saying that's what you do but it's what the left typically does.
Incorrect, but I can see why you want to believe this. How else can you justify constantly posting ad hominems?
Not sure why you are so vested in believing unfettered capitalism never existed, but obviously you won't be dissuaded regardless of facts or links presented.
Nazis have always been seen as RWers until the last decade or so. People over 50 know this to be true. As several have posted on this and similar threads, a more accurate viewpoint is that fascism was highly authoritarian with some elements of socialism, but definitely leaning right. Why the far Right seeks to label fascists as far Lefties is interesting even though it is wrong.
That chart is wrong........nazism is socialism.....it is left wing. How does libertarianism...and American Conservatism, with the belief in limited government and individual rights even come close to nazism? and you are saying they lie on the same side of the line.........
The left wing will jump through whatever hoops they have to....contort through whatever yoga postures they have to...to hide the fact that the mass murder of 100 million innocent men, women and children starting about 1917....the modern period.....were all done by different styles of socialism........
That is why they have to lie all the time.....
Because it's not a simple linear graph - you have the added dimension of Authoritarian vs Libertarian.
I agree the chart is flawed. I'm not clear what "Right versus Left" means. Right and left can be fiscal, social or military. The chart doesn't define what they mean by right and left
I don't think the chart is flawed - though there might be bias in where ideologies are placed. One access is economic the other social.
So explain what "right" and "left" mean and how you know it.
I'm right fiscally
I'm left socially
I'm neither militarily as both rightists and leftists are big builders and users of the military
Above it says I'm "libertarian" and "right." It also has fascists, who are big government as right. Explain it so it makes sense
The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.
I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?
I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.
No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.
The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.
I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?
I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.
No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.
I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing
Bullshit, you never answered once my question, which is where Hitler was against SOCIALISM You keep arguing he killed socialists. You seriously don't understand the difference?
Explain how the blacks in Chicago who kill blacks aren't black. That he kills socialists doesn't prove shit.
And you keep ignoring my question to name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia completely
The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.
I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?
I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.
No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.
I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing
What fascists did that?
You repeatedly presented quotes that didn't say what you said they said and then kept repeating that you provided it as if you had.
I've asked you this at least 20 times and you ran away every time, "name any real differences between Fascist Germany and Communist Russia."
If you actually answered it, man up to a post #
Wry Catcher
Diamond Member
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #870
Incorrect, but I can see why you want to believe this. How else can you justify constantly posting ad hominems?
Not sure why you are so vested in believing unfettered capitalism never existed, but obviously you won't be dissuaded regardless of facts or links presented.
Nazis have always been seen as RWers until the last decade or so. People over 50 know this to be true. As several have posted on this and similar threads, a more accurate viewpoint is that fascism was highly authoritarian with some elements of socialism, but definitely leaning right. Why the far Right seeks to label fascists as far Lefties is interesting even though it is wrong.
I've always seen Nazi's and Fascists stuck in the extreme rightwing category and Stalinists in the left. But some political theorists consider Hitler and Stalin to be their own category since they employed a mix of left and right ideologies.
Begging the question. For like the 20th time, explain the difference between "right wing" fascism and left wing socialism with any MEANINGFUL difference.
Hint, I'm not looking for that business is free in fascism as long as they obey Hitler so he doesn't kill and replace them. That isn't free business
The Right Wing supports the elites, think Monarchy
The Left Wing supports the hoi polloi, think democracy
It's really that simple.
Both wings can become radicalized, the RW reactionary and resistant to change, the LW revolutionary and seeking immediate change.
Iceweasel
Diamond Member
What leftists have in common is big government. Name a leftist country that doesn't. Democracy is two lions and a lamb deciding on dinner. That's why freedom loving countries are into republics.
The right wing here damn sure doesn't support the elites. This election should have served as an education but apparently you are beyond it.
I'm not ignoring any questions, but this is a fast moving thread.
Differences:
Hitler was a fascist. Hitler's primary motivation was to create a pan-German state across Europe, based on race. Nazism was a racial more than political, ideology. Like Stalin, he too sought to modernize Germany. While Hitler did kill his political enemies, he primarily focused on purging Jews, and other "defective" racial or ethnic types as well as communists. Despite state regulation of industry, it was not state owned and he did not practice collectivisation of private property and farmland. Hitler did not seek to abolish the class system, but regarded as part of the natural order of things. Hitler's prime means of motivating support was through his racial ideology and elevation of the German people. In line with fascist ideology - Hitler view on women was very traditional (kitchen, children, church) and women were not allowsed to work. Hitler also supported religion in Germany.
Stalin was a communist. Stalin's primary motivation was to modernize the Soviet Union. Stalin sought complete nationalization and communalization of his state and that was consistent throughout his rule. He turned the nation's agriculture into huge nationalized collective farms as well as rapidly industrialized the nation, de-privatizing all it's industries and property ( to show the west the "superiority" of the communist system). Millions of peasants were dispossessed. In terms of economy - Stalin used command economy solely while Hitler was partly market economy. He "pacified" ethnic minorities by diluting them, transplanting ethnic Russians into those regions and transferring ethnic minorities to Siberia. Stalin is most known for his paranoid purges of people he considered "anti-communists" and political enemies that he believed were trying to undermine him. Unlike Hitler, Stalin did not preach racial or national intolerance. Stalin's prime means of motivating support was through arbitrary terror (purges, citizen informant programs, etc). Stalin's view on women was communist, that they were equal to men. Women could work and did. Stalin forbade religion.
Similarities:
Both were harsh dictators.
Both sprang out of the post-WW1 economic depression
Both exerted a measure of control over the country's means of production.
Both sought to militarize their countries and glorified the military.
Both were gifted in the use of propoganda.
Both wanted to industrialize their countries.
Both were responsible for huge losses of life.
The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.
I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?
I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.
No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.
I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing
What fascists did that?
Mussolini
"Granted that the XIXth century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the XXth century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the " right ", a Fascist century."
If you ever wonder if Fascism is rightwing or not - you can read it for yourself in Mussolini's Doctrine of Fascism. Statism in and of itself does not make the ideology leftwing.
The point being is that Hitler was a fascist, not a socialist. Fascism isn't anymore socialism than North Korea is a Democratic Republic. I'm sorry you cannot seem to comprehend this point.
I've been fascinated over the past few years when the far Right meme that Hitler was a socialist surfaced. Anyone know who said it first? Was it Beck? He's pretty fucked up and it sounds like something he'd say. Rush?
I think it first surfaced with one Goldberg's book - Liberal Fascism. He tried to make a case that fascists and Hitler were all leftwing The idea that it is leftwing is new revisionism. It's kind of like the current attempt to claim Islam is not a religion.
No ma'am. The revisionism occurred back sixty and more years ago when the fabians convinced the world that you could have left wing socialism, and right wing socialism. The common denominator being socialism. We are merely trying to set the record straight. There can be only TWO government types. Collectivist, and individualist. That is simple logic. The question about socialist vs fascist is merely the degree along the teeter totter you have traveled.
I think we are bound to disagree on this one....as, I see it squarely on the right side of the teeter with the fascists themselves even stating they were right wing
Except for that "socialism" part in the very name of their Party. Just sayin....
Uncensored2008
Libertarian Radical
Uncensored2008
Libertarian Radical
[
No. I don't thiink Trump is a Nazi. Not even close.
I do think he's a thin skinned lying arrogant ass though.
You think Trump is Obama?
Post #451, 505, 738, for a start. I'm not going to look any further but multiple times I outlined the differences. Just because YOU don't think they are differences doesn't mean I haven't answered your question. But, just to make it absolutely clear - I have now posted yet another post.
bripat9643
Diamond Member
- Apr 1, 2011
- 170,170
- 47,368
- 2,180
Incorrect, but I can see why you want to believe this. How else can you justify constantly posting ad hominems?
Not sure why you are so vested in believing unfettered capitalism never existed, but obviously you won't be dissuaded regardless of facts or links presented.
Nazis have always been seen as RWers until the last decade or so. People over 50 know this to be true. As several have posted on this and similar threads, a more accurate viewpoint is that fascism was highly authoritarian with some elements of socialism, but definitely leaning right. Why the far Right seeks to label fascists as far Lefties is interesting even though it is wrong.
I've always seen Nazi's and Fascists stuck in the extreme rightwing category and Stalinists in the left. But some political theorists consider Hitler and Stalin to be their own category since they employed a mix of left and right ideologies.
Begging the question. For like the 20th time, explain the difference between "right wing" fascism and left wing socialism with any MEANINGFUL difference.
Hint, I'm not looking for that business is free in fascism as long as they obey Hitler so he doesn't kill and replace them. That isn't free business
The Right Wing supports the elites, think Monarchy
The Left Wing supports the hoi polloi, think democracy
It's really that simple.
Both wings can become radicalized, the RW reactionary and resistant to change, the LW revolutionary and seeking immediate change.
So HIllary and George Soros are not elites?
What left wingers claim to believe in is mostly bullshit.
danielpalos
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #879
Just lousy management. In the US, we have the concept of natural rights.
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