fascism, does it exist in 21st Century America?

[CrusaderFrank]

Why? Did they beg for money, too??

They could have and should have went through a real Chapter 11 so they they could finally put salt on the Leach-like UAW.

On this, we completely agree. However, this sidebar really has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Agreed?

Agreed.

The same way that a Fascist government should be called on it irrespective of whether the business goes to it for help, or the government came in with guns blazing

 

[Wry Catcher]

I've offered a defintion of fascisim (remember small 'f'), as requested (or challenged). Your turn.
Of course, I was also challegned to defend my assertion that fascisim is the greatest threat to our republic.
If my definition of fascism is accurate - and no one has yet challenged it - then all Libertarians must reject any political theory which subjugates our citizens to the state.
Patriots, those Americans who support our Constitution, believe (I suppose) in the vision statement of our founding fathers expressed in the Preamble to The Constitution.
How, if my attempt to define fascism is accurate, and fascists hold the state as superior, can any patriot support any of those tenents (of fascism) expressed above? And if they cannot support such ideas, how can they not believe such political ideas are not a greater threat to our nation and it's principles then a couple of planes hitting a couple of building?
And consider this before playing the card of emotion, hundreds of thousands and more Americans have died defending our Constitution and the principles of America then suffered on 9/11. The trajedy of 9/11 was felt by all Americans, but few question Why it happened and fewer still quesiton our response.

 

[Si modo]

I go with that old-fashioned conservative ideal of looking in a dictionary and not coming up with my own language of Newspeak or some other relativistic convenience for agenda at hand.

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \ˈfa-ˌshi-zəm also ˈfa-ˌsi-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality &#8212; J. W. Aldridge>

&#8212; fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized

&#8212; fas·cis·tic \fa-&#712;shis-tik also -&#712;sis-\ adjective often capitalized

&#8212; fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(&#601;-)l&#275;\ adverb often capitalized



Merriam-Webster

 

[Xenophon]

Fair enough. IMO fascism in twenty-first century America is characterised by jingoism, chauvinism, unilateralism, zero sum game politics and hypocrisy; militarism, disdain for human rights and academic freedom, obsession with national security, scapegoating, and propaganda infused with hate and fear of some group (by race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity or region). For a start.

That defines to a large part the Obama administration.

Do you consider the current US government fascist?

 

[Xenophon]

I go with that old-fashioned conservative ideal of looking in a dictionary and not coming up with my own language of Newspeak or some other relativistic convenience for agenda at hand.

Main Entry: fas·cism
Pronunciation: \&#712;fa-&#716;shi-z&#601;m also &#712;fa-&#716;si-\
Function: noun
Etymology: Italian fascismo, from fascio bundle, fasces, group, from Latin fascis bundle & fasces fasces
Date: 1921

1 often capitalized : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2 : a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control <early instances of army fascism and brutality — J. W. Aldridge>

— fas·cist \-shist also -sist\ noun or adjective often capitalized

— fas·cis·tic \fa-&#712;shis-tik also -&#712;sis-\ adjective often capitalized

— fas·cis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(&#601;-)l&#275;\ adverb often capitalized



Merriam-Webster

That also sounds very much like the current US administration.

 

[garyd]

Fascism is statism. Purely and simply the notion that government ought to run everything. Yes it is a danger and it is a danger uniquely posed by the left.

 

[Si modo]

Fascism is statism. Purely and simply the notion that government ought to run everything. Yes it is a danger and it is a danger uniquely posed by the left.

I have to disagree with you on your use of uniquely. There are plenty social conservatives who would not bat an eye to having their brand of religious moralism legislated - Christians, Muslims, whatever. Theocracies are just as authoritarian. Perhaps the difference is that these types are more easily noticed than the passive stateists. Hard to say.

But, I agree that there are plenty stateists on the left.

 

[garyd]

A theocracy can be every bit as much left of center as any other outfit that thinks government should control everything. The political line runs from Anarchy on the extreme right to Totaliatarianism on the extreme left.

What your underlying rationale for your totaliatarian views don't strictly speaking matter a damn to where said views lie on the political line.

 

[Xenophon]

But, I agree that there are plenty stateists on the left.

All left wing ideologues stress the strength and power of the 'state.'

Its a recurring theme, they feel 'the state' is best suited to handle all aspects of life.

They simply now have changed the terminology, instead of using the cold war envoking 'state' they talk about 'expanding government's role.'

Notice how often Obama supporters go on about how important people view 'America' as in 'Barry getting a nobel prize is good for AMERICA' in a favorable light.

The individual recieving the award is actually taking a back seat to the state in such comments, and that was all many Obama supporters kept saying the last few days.

Democrats in congress have for years wanted to reinstal the commicaly named 'fairness doctrone' to control criticism OF THE STATE.

This is one of the many reasons I long ago rejected political parties.

Notice how they always speak about us collectivly? The left loves to talk about 'redistrabution of wealth' or 'paying their fair share' yet they will be the ones to determine what defines both comments for the good of, you guessed it, the state.

None of them are concerned in the slightest with what i consider most important:

The rights of man.

The right to say and think what i want when i want to.

The right to have what is mine and for nobody else to decide what I can and cannot have, do or want.

The left is all about authoritarianism, even in seemingly benign endeavors like health care. Even in that, they have provisions to FORCE you to take part in the program, for 'the good of the state.'

The most damning thing with fascism is the cult of personality.

No other politicain in US history ever personafied that more then:

Brack hussein obama.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Well, I believe the neoconservative movement is a contemporary fascist movement. Was it Sinclair Lewis who suggested when fascisim comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and holding a cross?

 

[Oscar Wao]

Well, I believe the neoconservative movement is a contemporary fascist movement. Was it Sinclair Lewis who suggested when fascisim comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and holding a cross?

Neo-cons are globalists...plain and simple.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I will argue it does, and that fascism is the greatest threat to our republic in this, the first decade of the new century.
But first, before the debate begins, how do YOU define fascisim (small 'f')?

National Socialism... Socialism lite... movement distinct from the international socialist... typically favoring Leftist ideological 'social justice' with a nationalist pride... using hefty regulatory and taxation means to control production and fund the aforementioned social justice; lead by centralized, mythical cult populism which tends towards severe repression of it's political opposition; advancing unsustainable policy which can only and has only lead to cultural catasptrophe.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Well, I believe the neoconservative movement is a contemporary fascist movement. Was it Sinclair Lewis who suggested when fascisim comes to America it will be wrapped in a flag and holding a cross?

Neo-cons are globalists...plain and simple.

Well Neo-cons are fascists... period. But there are very few neo-cons; most of them are presently neo-dems... spending their time apologizing the BOY King's failures...

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What do you call it when the government takes over and then tells key industries, like say car companies and banks what they will do, right down to setting executive pay?

Oh yeah, that's right, Fascism!

No CF, it is not.

 

[Polk]

What do you call it when the government takes over and then tells key industries, like say car companies and banks what they will do, right down to setting executive pay?

Oh yeah, that's right, Fascism!

Now was this action by the government before or after said car companies voluntarily begged said government to bail them out and keep them from going out of business?

Indeed. Frank's retarded analogy only works if all automakers had been nationalized.

 

[Polk]

They had it coming because they dressed so provocatively, gotcha.

Why? Did they beg for money, too??

They could have and should have went through a real Chapter 11 so they they could finally put salt on the Leach-like UAW.

That assumes someone would have been willing to finance the process. Furthermore, I love your respect for contracts. The "law and order" of conservatism really comes shining through.

 

[Polk]

Fair enough. IMO fascism in twenty-first century America is characterised by jingoism, chauvinism, unilateralism, zero sum game politics and hypocrisy; militarism, disdain for human rights and academic freedom, obsession with national security, scapegoating, and propaganda infused with hate and fear of some group (by race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, ethnicity or region). For a start.

That defines to a large part the Obama administration.

Do you consider the current US government fascist?

And by Obama, you mean Bush.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Why? Did they beg for money, too??

They could have and should have went through a real Chapter 11 so they they could finally put salt on the Leach-like UAW.

That assumes someone would have been willing to finance the process. Furthermore, I love your respect for contracts. The "law and order" of conservatism really comes shining through.

Contracts should not be an economic suicide pact. The UAW is a festering boil on teh US Automotive industry and it must be lanced with we're ever to have a meaningful auto industry in the USA again

 

[CrusaderFrank]

What do you call it when the government takes over and then tells key industries, like say car companies and banks what they will do, right down to setting executive pay?

Oh yeah, that's right, Fascism!

Now was this action by the government before or after said car companies voluntarily begged said government to bail them out and keep them from going out of business?

Indeed. Frank's retarded analogy only works if all automakers had been nationalized.

LOL

You fucking moron.

Obama got 2 out of three.

What a DICK!

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Now was this action by the government before or after said car companies voluntarily begged said government to bail them out and keep them from going out of business?

They had it coming because they dressed so provocatively, gotcha.

CF, this is an attempt to have real debate on a substantive issue; I suspect you're out of your league.

...fascism is also a political system wherein the individual is subordinate to the state.

You mean like when you have a "Pay Czar"?