Fascism and the left wing

[JakeStarkey]

For the day and age, Lincoln was liberal, a statist who believed in government support of national infrastructure, federal land grants to settlers, federal financing of railroads, federal enforcement of restricting slavery from the territories then ending it in rebellious states, and, finally, forcing states to comply with national electoral and constitutional process.

Want a conservative back then? Look at Buchanan.

 

[Saigon]

Reminds me of the thread that went on forever, claiming Truman was a Republican. Or another claiming Jefferson was a conservative. But how about this: Lincoln was a liberal?

Are we considering the issue from a 1950s perspective or a 21st century perspective?

I do think it is a little similar with Fascism and the topic of this thread - BriPat found it impossible to believe that the word 'socialism' was not exclusviely attached to left wing philosophy in the early 1920s, but the world was a different place then.

Our understanding of words like 'Nazi', 'fascism', 'Marism' and 'Communism' have been so formed by World War Two and the Cold War that it is almost impossible for us to imagine how those words were used prior to those event taking place.

 

[Bfgrn]

what "verifiable fact" have you posted?

- Quotes from Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, which all attack Marxism, Communism and/or Socialism

- Dictionary definitions of terms from 3 online dictionaries, which all use define "fascist" as being right wing

- Graphs and links to material on the political horseshoe model which place Fascim on the extreme right wing

- Book references (Kershaw, Marris, Traudl Junge, Albert Speer)

- A list of 6 German historians who have written on this topic (Hildebrand etc), and all of whom decribe Fascism as being right wing

- Links to articles on Stroessner, Pinochet and Antonescu which all use the terms "fascist" and "right wing"

- Links to articles on Speer, Traudl Junge and Heidigger

All of these are verifiable.

All confirm that fascism is right wing.

All of them were dismiissed by you because they were "marxist", because politicians lie, because politicians themselves are not good sources, because you won't read books, because, becaue, because.

If you have not realised yourself how absolutely laugh-lout-loud hilarious your twisting, squirming and simply stupid your Wall of Denial is, you really should.

What I think this thread has established in volumnes is that for the truly brainwashed and the truly stupid, no amount of evidence at all will ever convince them. In fact, information itself is the enemy. It is not a battle between competing bodies of evidence, but a battle between facts as a concept and supersitiion as a form of religion.

So congratulations on that BriPat, you have attained a place of ignorance far beyond the reach of the seeping tides and winding rivers of news and information.

FYI...Saigon:

1) You are arguing with someone who says no one has ever died from pollution.

2) bripat is one of the only posters who actually uses his own portrait as his avatar.

 

[Amazed]

what "verifiable fact" have you posted?

- Quotes from Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, which all attack Marxism, Communism and/or Socialism

- Dictionary definitions of terms from 3 online dictionaries, which all use define "fascist" as being right wing

- Graphs and links to material on the political horseshoe model which place Fascim on the extreme right wing

- Book references (Kershaw, Marris, Traudl Junge, Albert Speer)

- A list of 6 German historians who have written on this topic (Hildebrand etc), and all of whom decribe Fascism as being right wing

- Links to articles on Stroessner, Pinochet and Antonescu which all use the terms "fascist" and "right wing"

- Links to articles on Speer, Traudl Junge and Heidigger

All of these are verifiable.

All confirm that fascism is right wing.

All of them were dismiissed by you because they were "marxist", because politicians lie, because politicians themselves are not good sources, because you won't read books, because, becaue, because.

If you have not realised yourself how absolutely laugh-lout-loud hilarious your twisting, squirming and simply stupid your Wall of Denial is, you really should.

What I think this thread has established in volumnes is that for the truly brainwashed and the truly stupid, no amount of evidence at all will ever convince them. In fact, information itself is the enemy. It is not a battle between competing bodies of evidence, but a battle between facts as a concept and supersitiion as a form of religion.

So congratulations on that BriPat, you have attained a place of ignorance far beyond the reach of the seeping tides and winding rivers of news and information.

I agree....except that its 180 degrees from what you thhink it is.

People like you must look at black and say its white....and white and say its black....what frustrates you is that you among a group of people that aren't ignorant enough to buy into your faux intellectual crap, sorry friend you remain an idiot.

 

[Bfgrn]

what "verifiable fact" have you posted?

- Quotes from Hitler, Franco, Mussolini, which all attack Marxism, Communism and/or Socialism

- Dictionary definitions of terms from 3 online dictionaries, which all use define "fascist" as being right wing

- Graphs and links to material on the political horseshoe model which place Fascim on the extreme right wing

- Book references (Kershaw, Marris, Traudl Junge, Albert Speer)

- A list of 6 German historians who have written on this topic (Hildebrand etc), and all of whom decribe Fascism as being right wing

- Links to articles on Stroessner, Pinochet and Antonescu which all use the terms "fascist" and "right wing"

- Links to articles on Speer, Traudl Junge and Heidigger

All of these are verifiable.

All confirm that fascism is right wing.

All of them were dismiissed by you because they were "marxist", because politicians lie, because politicians themselves are not good sources, because you won't read books, because, becaue, because.

If you have not realised yourself how absolutely laugh-lout-loud hilarious your twisting, squirming and simply stupid your Wall of Denial is, you really should.

What I think this thread has established in volumnes is that for the truly brainwashed and the truly stupid, no amount of evidence at all will ever convince them. In fact, information itself is the enemy. It is not a battle between competing bodies of evidence, but a battle between facts as a concept and supersitiion as a form of religion.

So congratulations on that BriPat, you have attained a place of ignorance far beyond the reach of the seeping tides and winding rivers of news and information.

I agree....except that its 180 degrees from what you thhink it is.

People like you must look at black and say its white....and white and say its black....what frustrates you is that you among a group of people that aren't ignorant enough to buy into your faux intellectual crap, sorry friend you remain an idiot.

Here is a novel idea. Spend a few hours reading some chapters from Mein Kampf like I have, and see for yourself who and what Adolf Hitler was.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Amazed is there with the brain-dead like bripat. OK.

 

[lukelk]

Don't know where the graph came from, but it's bogus. Fascism/nazism are about gov't control, something the right is absolutely against. The right is for the opposite, smaller and less intrusive gov't. Any kind of totalitarianism is a far left form of gov't. The extreme right is for as little gov't as possible or no gov't at all. IOW, anarchy.

You do know how these things work if you honestly think this. It's not as simple as big gov or small gov. Grow a brain and come back when u can think with the big boys

 

[Saigon]

FYI...Saigon:

1) You are arguing with someone who says no one has ever died from pollution.

2) bripat is one of the only posters who actually uses his own portrait as his avatar.

Ha! That is wonderful stuff!

I did also think his suggestion on this thread that the perfect leader for America today would be Queen Victoria stretched the limits common sense somewhat!

Amazed -

Feel free to present a credible case, backed with links and references. I'd also be intereted as to what historians, dictionaries and enyclopedias back your case.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Amazed, if you present a case with links and references, make sure youir definitions are correct and that you have not revised the case.

 

[thanatos144]

Love watching progressives try and spin the fact that socialism is facism and it is left wing

Then by all means try and present a case, and back it up with links, facts and quotes.

You can hardly do a worse job than BriPat or Sniper Fire!

Why history isn't enough for you?

 

[Saigon]

Thenatos -

History is definitely enough for me.

History is also found in dictionaries, respected historical books by highly qualified experts, in encyclopedias and academic texts.

I very often find posters like Amazed are 100% sure they have the facts which prive that history as we know it is false, but struggle to find anyone else who agrees with them.

Perceptions are not facts.

 

[bripat9643]

Amazed is there with the brain-dead like bripat. OK.

The irony of you calling other posters "brain dead" couldn't be more hysterical.

 

[Saigon]

Amazed is there with the brain-dead like bripat. OK.

The irony of you calling other posters "brain dead" couldn't be more hysterical.

Oh, it could be.

He could start refusing to use dictionaries.

 

[Bfgrn]

Love watching progressives try and spin the fact that socialism is facism and it is left wing

Then by all means try and present a case, and back it up with links, facts and quotes.

You can hardly do a worse job than BriPat or Sniper Fire!

Why history isn't enough for you?

History is more than enough, but only for those who choose to read it. History will teach you that in the 1920's and 30's, while the rest of the world was turning to fascism, America had a very strong socialist movement. Franklin Delano Roosevelt saved America from not only fascism, but also socialism. He is the seminal reason America has capitalism.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Says the 14 year old child who won't use dictionary definitions but instead only his own.

Amazed is there with the brain-dead like bripat. OK.

The irony of you calling other posters "brain dead" couldn't be more hysterical.

 

[thanatos144]

Then you all need to read history. Cause all fascist governments are left.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Let me reinforce it that. The capitalist, FDR, saved capitalism in America. His banking legislation, overwhelmingly approved and enacted on by Congress, saved the banking industry instead of having it nationalized.

Every time someone such as bripat or Thanatos calls FDR a "socialist" or "communist", understand that individual is either ignorant, mentally feeble, malignantly motivated, or a combination of part or all three.

What he is not is accurate.

 

[thanatos144]

Let me reinforce it that. The capitalist, FDR, saved capitalism in America. His banking legislation, overwhelmingly approved and enacted on by Congress, saved the banking industry instead of having it nationalized.

Every time someone calls FDR a "socialist" or "communist", understand that individual is either ignorant, mentally feeble, malignantly motivated, or a combination of part or all three.

What he is not is accurate.

No the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor saved America from the depression....FDR just made it last longer.

 

[bripat9643]

Thenatos -

History is definitely enough for me.

History is also found in dictionaries, respected historical books by highly qualified experts, in encyclopedias and academic texts.

In other words, a clique of Marxist intellectuals have been engaging in one vast propaganda circle jerk ever since WW II. One commie professor says Hitler was a right-winger, then another cites him in a paper, then a third cites both of them and so on and so on and so on. It's a colossal fraud. The one thing they don't do is examine the economic policies the Nazis actually implemented. In fact, most of these nimrods don't understand the slightest thing about economics.

Anyone who thinks the Dictionary is the final authority on a political or economic issue is simply an idiot.

I very often find posters like Amazed are 100% sure they have the facts which prive that history as we know it is false, but struggle to find anyone else who agrees with them.

Perceptions are not facts.

Unfortunately for your belief, the issue of whether a given ideology is socialist is one of economics. Numerous economists have pointed out that the Nazis wanted a command economy. In other words, they wanted socialism. They immediately started implementing their version of socialism the day they gained power. Here's what Ludwig von Mises, and eminent economist, has to say on the subject:

"Yet it is clear that both systems, the German and the Russian, must be considered from an economic point of view as socialist."

- Ludwig von Mises "Omnipotent Government" P178 -

 

[Saigon]

BriPat -

Then thank God we have you here to refute the past 60 years of history.