Facts About Judaism

[ESay]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

 

[HaShev]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

The sacrifice was to sacrifice the receiving all about me (individual) in order to share & bestow for the whole- aka all about us (community).
About the Temple sacrifice,
the altar for sacrificing at the temple has been rebuilt and prepared, and it is 7(Sheva) ft
7 (Sheva)inches in size as everything in the Temple secrets the head of the MIKdash in the name.
People need to realize the sacrifice was not an ignorant archaic ritual, it served a purpose for the community.
The symbol was mocking the idol gods represented in the animals to show they had no power in the idolization and it was used for good of the community bonding through sharing within a community gathering of the neighbors labors and blessings, as they shared their crops and feed the less fortunate with the leftover meat. In other words this was a giant bring your own dish barbeque, where community learned to appreciate their neighbors for the sustanance they bring.

I think when people think of animal sacrifice they think of Aztec like blood lust and archaic beliefs of sacrifice to gods. Remember Jews didn't and don't believe in any magic transformation through rituals, the transformation of spirit was in the community bonding over the spoils of their labors, what any good bring your own dish & block party will do.

 

[ESay]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

The sacrifice was to sacrifice the receiving all about me (individual) in order to share & bestow for the whole- aka all about us (community).
About the Temple sacrifice,
the altar for sacrificing at the temple has been rebuilt and prepared, and it is 7(Sheva) ft
7 (Sheva)inches in size as everything in the Temple secrets the head of the MIKdash in the name.
People need to realize the sacrifice was not an ignorant archaic ritual, it served a purpose for the community.
The symbol was mocking the idol gods represented in the animals to show they had no power in the idolization and it was used for good of the community bonding through sharing within a community gathering of the neighbors labors and blessings, as they shared their crops and feed the less fortunate with the leftover meat. In other words this was a giant bring your own dish barbeque, where community learned to appreciate their neighbors for the sustanance they bring.

I think when people think of animal sacrifice they think of Aztec like blood lust and archaic beliefs of sacrifice to gods. Remember Jews didn't and don't believe in any magic transformation through rituals, the transformation of spirit was in the community bonding over the spoils of their labors, what any good bring your own dish & block party will do.

Okay, I understand your point. So, you think the sacrifices should be restored in full as described in the scripture if (or when) the Temple is rebuild?

 

[HaShev]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

The sacrifice was to sacrifice the receiving all about me (individual) in order to share & bestow for the whole- aka all about us (community).
About the Temple sacrifice,
the altar for sacrificing at the temple has been rebuilt and prepared, and it is 7(Sheva) ft
7 (Sheva)inches in size as everything in the Temple secrets the head of the MIKdash in the name.
People need to realize the sacrifice was not an ignorant archaic ritual, it served a purpose for the community.
The symbol was mocking the idol gods represented in the animals to show they had no power in the idolization and it was used for good of the community bonding through sharing within a community gathering of the neighbors labors and blessings, as they shared their crops and feed the less fortunate with the leftover meat. In other words this was a giant bring your own dish barbeque, where community learned to appreciate their neighbors for the sustanance they bring.

I think when people think of animal sacrifice they think of Aztec like blood lust and archaic beliefs of sacrifice to gods. Remember Jews didn't and don't believe in any magic transformation through rituals, the transformation of spirit was in the community bonding over the spoils of their labors, what any good bring your own dish & block party will do.

Okay, I understand your point. So, you think the sacrifices should be restored in full as described in the scripture if (or when) the Temple is rebuild?

Yes it's applicable to what we already do in our communities.
In fact in a new town I was invited to a family's thanksgiving, whereby they not only took me a stranger in for the feast, but they made extra turkeys and food and took that food to the community in need to feed other strangers.
When we go to such gatherings, we bring our best dishes to share our abundance and some share their own harvests and it's usually shared with lone people, widows, widowers, displaced people who have no close family to go to during the holiday feasts. This helps in appreciating your community and makes it closer knit, looking after each other and ends up the type of communities that step up during disasters or times in need.

 

[Meriweather]

That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

I wasn't there, so I don't know the whys. The best we can do is consider the usual motivation of humans--i.e., what was in it for them? When it comes to human sacrifice, we have a clue from ancient Jews that whatever that motivation was, it didn't come from God.

 

[ESay]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

The sacrifice was to sacrifice the receiving all about me (individual) in order to share & bestow for the whole- aka all about us (community).
About the Temple sacrifice,
the altar for sacrificing at the temple has been rebuilt and prepared, and it is 7(Sheva) ft
7 (Sheva)inches in size as everything in the Temple secrets the head of the MIKdash in the name.
People need to realize the sacrifice was not an ignorant archaic ritual, it served a purpose for the community.
The symbol was mocking the idol gods represented in the animals to show they had no power in the idolization and it was used for good of the community bonding through sharing within a community gathering of the neighbors labors and blessings, as they shared their crops and feed the less fortunate with the leftover meat. In other words this was a giant bring your own dish barbeque, where community learned to appreciate their neighbors for the sustanance they bring.

I think when people think of animal sacrifice they think of Aztec like blood lust and archaic beliefs of sacrifice to gods. Remember Jews didn't and don't believe in any magic transformation through rituals, the transformation of spirit was in the community bonding over the spoils of their labors, what any good bring your own dish & block party will do.

Okay, I understand your point. So, you think the sacrifices should be restored in full as described in the scripture if (or when) the Temple is rebuild?

Yes it's applicable to what we already do in our communities.
In fact in a new town I was invited to a family's thanksgiving, whereby they not only took me a stranger in for the feast, but they made extra turkeys and food and took that food to the community in need to feed other strangers.
When we go to such gatherings, we bring our best dishes to share our abundance and some share their own harvests and it's usually shared with lone people, widows, widowers, displaced people who have no close family to go to during the holiday feasts. This helps in appreciating your community and makes it closer knit, looking after each other and ends up the type of communities that step up during disasters or times in need.

Yes, I fully understand what you say and agree with that. But I dont really understand how these sacrifices will be taking place on practice. All these animals, blood, the dirt etc.

I have seen a couple of videos about Kaparot. And after the ritual they 'sacrificed' the hens. Not very plausible thing to see how it was organized.

 

[Meriweather]

Yes, I fully understand what you say and agree with that. But I dont really understand how these sacrifices will be taking place on practice. All these animals, blood, the dirt etc.

Perhaps using some more modern methods of butchering animals? Many of my ancestors were farmers, and butchering animals was a regular part of life...yes, the blood and the dirt, etc. This is not a usual part of life for most of us today. Must Temple sacrifice be done as it was done thousands of years ago?

 

[ESay]

Must Temple sacrifice be done as it was done thousands of years ago?

I think it mustn't. The modern methods should be applied. If we are talking about butchering the animals.

 

[Meriweather]

I think it mustn't. The modern methods should be applied. If we are talking about butchering the animals.

This goes back to what I noted before. What is in it for humans?

 

[ESay]

I think it mustn't. The modern methods should be applied. If we are talking about butchering the animals.

This goes back to what I noted before. What is in it for humans?

I am sorry, but I don't understand your question. What do you mean?

 

[Meriweather]

I am sorry, but I don't understand your question. What do you mean?

This will sound cynical, but that is far from my intent. I believe in God, and believe He holds mankind's best interest as prime. Sacrifice served many purposes. Let's say that this act of repentance truly did change an individual's life. The follow-up question is then why not have each individual perform his own sacrifice? Once answer might be, Because the individual sin had repercussions into the community, so the community deserved reparations from the cause of that sin. This leads us into the need for someone to gather the community and organize the event--i.e., the priests. Who is going to pay the priests? They can be paid with a portion of the sacrifice. We now have a portion of the sacrifice (blood on the altar, and fat, too, if I recall correctly); we have a portion going to the priests who organized and distributed; we have a portion of the sacrifice being returned to the one(s) repenting; and the rest is shared with the community. The sinner shows his repentance; the community accepts it; and now both sinner and community are going to expect improvement. Peace has been made.

It is easy to see how well this might work within small communities. What about large communities? More people, but then there are more sacrifices. Lots of food, lots of people, plenty of partying and likely the loss of expectation of improved behavior--especially when many do not know who is repenting of what. We also see plenty of opportunity for graft. (Oh, your animal has a "blemish", but we can sell you an "unblemished" one for a price; then they use the "blemished" animal as the trade for the next "blemished" animal.) Then, how about selling off (instead of distributing) some of the meat? More profit. Add to this natural gluttony of the people in the midst of plenty.

Expand this to an entire nation....It is easy to see why the idea of the Apocalypse formed hundreds of years before Jesus was ever born and Revelation was written. As good as human intent (or at least part of it) is, it always ends up in corruption. God, Himself, will have to establish His rule on earth. A rule steeped in goodness seems beyond the capability of mankind. We can only seem to maintain it for a short time (cosmically speaking). The greater the population, the more likely its collapse. Except for the fragment...this portion (was it 25%) starts over and it all begins again, ending with the same result.

 

[ESay]

I am sorry, but I don't understand your question. What do you mean?

This will sound cynical, but that is far from my intent. I believe in God, and believe He holds mankind's best interest as prime. Sacrifice served many purposes. Let's say that this act of repentance truly did change an individual's life. The follow-up question is then why not have each individual perform his own sacrifice? Once answer might be, Because the individual sin had repercussions into the community, so the community deserved reparations from the cause of that sin. This leads us into the need for someone to gather the community and organize the event--i.e., the priests. Who is going to pay the priests? They can be paid with a portion of the sacrifice. We now have a portion of the sacrifice (blood on the altar, and fat, too, if I recall correctly); we have a portion going to the priests who organized and distributed; we have a portion of the sacrifice being returned to the one(s) repenting; and the rest is shared with the community. The sinner shows his repentance; the community accepts it; and now both sinner and community are going to expect improvement. Peace has been made.

It is easy to see how well this might work within small communities. What about large communities? More people, but then there are more sacrifices. Lots of food, lots of people, plenty of partying and likely the loss of expectation of improved behavior--especially when many do not know who is repenting of what. We also see plenty of opportunity for graft. (Oh, your animal has a "blemish", but we can sell you an "unblemished" one for a price; then they use the "blemished" animal as the trade for the next "blemished" animal.) Then, how about selling off (instead of distributing) some of the meat? More profit. Add to this natural gluttony of the people in the midst of plenty.

Expand this to an entire nation....It is easy to see why the idea of the Apocalypse formed hundreds of years before Jesus was ever born and Revelation was written. As good as human intent (or at least part of it) is, it always ends up in corruption. God, Himself, will have to establish His rule on earth. A rule steeped in goodness seems beyond the capability of mankind. We can only seem to maintain it for a short time (cosmically speaking). The greater the population, the more likely its collapse. Except for the fragment...this portion (was it 25%) starts over and it all begins again, ending with the same result.

Yes, I agree with that. But that is not about sacrifices per se, but about a corrupted hierarchy which seeks the power and prosperity for themselves at the expense of lower communities. And there is no one organized religion which hasn't gone through it.

Personally, I dont support returning of sacrifices (though, I am not a Jew, so my opinion may not be relevant). I think that supporting the poor and unity can be achieved by other means.

I have read about the Essens. I know that opinions about them vary among the Jews and other people. I dont support all their views, but I like their idea about the Temple. They held that there wasn't a need in a physical Temple, but people should 'build' a spiritual one.

 

[Meriweather]

Personally, I dont support returning of sacrifices (though, I am not a Jew, so my opinion may not be relevant). I think that supporting the poor and unity can be achieved by other means.

Here we seem to agree. Unless there is a humanitarian reason for renewing Temple sacrifice, all Temple sacrifice would be is a ritual--one that long ago proved outdated.

 

[Meriweather]

I have read about the Essens. I know that opinions about them vary among the Jews and other people. I dont support all their views, but I like their idea about the Temple. They held that there wasn't a need in a physical Temple, but people should 'build' a spiritual one.

In science we teach humans are made of matter. With a wink we add, "We matter." Our world is matter. That which is invisible has proven hard to work with, hard to explain. That is the purpose of symbols, that old adage of a picture is worth a thousand words. That is why the Temple matters. It envisages past, present, and future; it is visual representation and imaging of the spiritual. Without it, the spiritual is in danger of wafting away.

 

[ESay]

I have read about the Essens. I know that opinions about them vary among the Jews and other people. I dont support all their views, but I like their idea about the Temple. They held that there wasn't a need in a physical Temple, but people should 'build' a spiritual one.

In science we teach humans are made of matter. With a wink we add, "We matter." Our world is matter. That which is invisible has proven hard to work with, hard to explain. That is the purpose of symbols, that old adage of a picture is worth a thousand words. That is why the Temple matters. It envisages past, present, and future; it is visual representation and imaging of the spiritual. Without it, the spiritual is in danger of wafting away.

I dont think that symbols have all that significance. I can give some examples, but they are related more to other religions. So, I dont think it would be appropriate in this thread.

But if you want to have the Temple as a symbol, then I would support it to be a center of religious knowledge and study rather than a place where rituals are performed. Though, I doubt it will fell to the definition of a 'temple'.

 

[rylah]

Can someone explain (or give own version of) what Ezekiel means in these verses (20:25-26):

25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;

26 And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord.

What statutes are meant 'bad'? And doesn't the verse 26 derogate the sacrifices?

Thanks in advance.

I.e. given us into the hands of unwise nations, who follow bad laws and morals,
upon which neither them nor us will attain life but suffering and trouble,
as symbolized in the decree of destruction.

What do you think about getting familiar with the works of Rashi, Ramban and Ibn 'Ezra?

 

[ESay]

I.e. given us into the hands of unwise nations, who follow bad laws and morals,
upon which neither them nor us will attain life but suffering and trouble,
as symbolized in the decree of destruction

Yes, thank you I understood this. One poster gave me an explanation above and I got these verses. I read the scriptures in Russian translation and some words there confused me.

What do you think about getting familiar with the works of Rashi, Ramban and Ibn 'Ezra

Well, that is wholly a new level to what I am in now, I think. I haven't even tried to read these authors. I dont even know whether there is a decent translation of some of them into Russian.

 

[surada]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

The sacrifice was to sacrifice the receiving all about me (individual) in order to share & bestow for the whole- aka all about us (community).
About the Temple sacrifice,
the altar for sacrificing at the temple has been rebuilt and prepared, and it is 7(Sheva) ft
7 (Sheva)inches in size as everything in the Temple secrets the head of the MIKdash in the name.
People need to realize the sacrifice was not an ignorant archaic ritual, it served a purpose for the community.
The symbol was mocking the idol gods represented in the animals to show they had no power in the idolization and it was used for good of the community bonding through sharing within a community gathering of the neighbors labors and blessings, as they shared their crops and feed the less fortunate with the leftover meat. In other words this was a giant bring your own dish barbeque, where community learned to appreciate their neighbors for the sustanance they bring.

I think when people think of animal sacrifice they think of Aztec like blood lust and archaic beliefs of sacrifice to gods. Remember Jews didn't and don't believe in any magic transformation through rituals, the transformation of spirit was in the community bonding over the spoils of their labors, what any good bring your own dish & block party will do.

How do you explain Azazel?

 

[anotherlife]

Judaism since the crucifixion of Chrit is only a ticket line to catch a ride back to Earth for a vacation from the outer darkness. Let's discuss.

 

[HaShev]

And from whom does evil come from? Satan?

Mankind seems to be able to accomplish evil without supernatural assistance. We are all too willing to settle for less than the ideal.

Okay, so what you wanted to say by your previous post? That people sought to 'appease' God with their sacrifices, and the 'higher' a sacrifice was the better it was considered by them?

The sacrifice was to sacrifice the receiving all about me (individual) in order to share & bestow for the whole- aka all about us (community).
About the Temple sacrifice,
the altar for sacrificing at the temple has been rebuilt and prepared, and it is 7(Sheva) ft
7 (Sheva)inches in size as everything in the Temple secrets the head of the MIKdash in the name.
People need to realize the sacrifice was not an ignorant archaic ritual, it served a purpose for the community.
The symbol was mocking the idol gods represented in the animals to show they had no power in the idolization and it was used for good of the community bonding through sharing within a community gathering of the neighbors labors and blessings, as they shared their crops and feed the less fortunate with the leftover meat. In other words this was a giant bring your own dish barbeque, where community learned to appreciate their neighbors for the sustanance they bring.

I think when people think of animal sacrifice they think of Aztec like blood lust and archaic beliefs of sacrifice to gods. Remember Jews didn't and don't believe in any magic transformation through rituals, the transformation of spirit was in the community bonding over the spoils of their labors, what any good bring your own dish & block party will do.

How do you explain Azazel?

That can be applied to so many things including events of today. There is nothing but scapegoating going on in politics today, so they must have always through time had the problem where people to do what was right and necessary, but not popular, became the sacrifice and scapegoat for our evil inclinations, much like what you see today. It's found in the "Miketz" portion of the Torah whereby
the "keepers of the unpopular truth" are not understood until it's later time, whereby it becomes realized and recognized and appreciated what was endured in sacrifice to that "unpopular truth".