F35 - superfighter or lame duck?

[Daryl Hunt]

Pentagon?s big budget F-35 fighter ?can?t turn, can?t climb, can?t run? | The Great Debate

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

Is there a serious problem, or just the press hunting for a story?

The Military has to have new shiny things believe me I know. They should stick with a proven platforms. No pilot I know wants to get rid of the the A-10 and the ground pounders definitely don't want it replaced.

I know a ton of pilots that came from the A-10 to the F-16. There is not a chance in hell of them wanting to go back after the Lawn Dart's first flight. (USAF Retired Member).

Now, about proven. What's been proven is that Syria is just too far away to depend on the A-10. Instead, they have installed a pod on the B-52 and are installing them on B-1s (one squadron was pulled and headed back to mods) and they can hit within a few feet of the bad guy.

It also can't be found, seen and you start blowing up without knowing where the hell it came from. That goes for a2a and a2g. What's the safest gunfight to be in? One where your enemy is out in the open and you are firing from cover. What's the dumbest way to do a gunfight? Be the one in the open.

 

[Indofred]

With this issue, I thing we have to consider history.
How many aircraft advertised as the best thing since sliced bread had such terrible reviews before they went into service?
Forum posts are one thing, but how about serious expert opinion? and there seems to be a good few worried about the thing.

 

[Manonthestreet]

trump for President so he can pronounce the dead dead....before it kills our pilots

 

[Daryl Hunt]

With this issue, I thing we have to consider history.
How many aircraft advertised as the best thing since sliced bread had such terrible reviews before they went into service?
Forum posts are one thing, but how about serious expert opinion? and there seems to be a good few worried about the thing.

F-22, F-15 to name just two. I am sure there others if I cared to research it. I went through the teething problems of the F-15 and it was a dog at first. It grew into what it became. Not over night. It didn't reach forward operational status until 1978. Until then, it was at stateside bases being ironed out. Much of the same was said about it.. It was too expensive, it wasn't any better than the F-4, etc.. And this was said by some thought to be "Experts" in the field by people like you. They were proven wrong.

Then there is the F-22. Now you people are crying that they took it off of production. Hell, you cried that it should be removed because of cost, performance and more. You'd bitch if you were hung with a new rope.

 

[Manonthestreet]

You post a lot of shit with nothing but your lying say so

 

[williepete]

You post a lot of shit with nothing but your lying say so

"People who know don't talk. People who talk don't know."

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You post a lot of shit with nothing but your lying say so

I can tell when you back yourself into a corner. Your response is just insults. I win.

 

[Manonthestreet]

F-15 was never considered a dog.....Boeing: Historical Snapshot: F-15 Eagle Tactical Fighter
On June 26, 1972, James S. McDonnell, founder of McDonnell Aircraft, christened the F-15 "Eagle." Test pilot Irv Burrows took the first F-15 Eagle to the air on July 27, 1972, at Edwards Air Force Base in California. Six months later, the Air Force approved the Eagle for full-rate production.

In early 1975, flying out of Grand Forks Air Force Base in North Dakota, an F-15A known as Streak Eagle set many time-to-climb world records. Between Jan. 16 and Feb. 1, 1975, the Streak Eagle broke eight time-to-climb world records. It reached an altitude of 98,425 feet just 3 minutes, 27.8 seconds from brake release at takeoff and coasted to nearly 103,000 feet before descending.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

F-15 was never considered a dog.....Boeing: Historical Snapshot: F-15 Eagle Tactical Fighter
On June 26, 1972, James S. McDonnell, founder of McDonnell Aircraft, christened the F-15 "Eagle." Test pilot Irv Burrows took the first F-15 Eagle to the air on July 27, 1972, at Edwards Air Force Base in California. Six months later, the Air Force approved the Eagle for full-rate production.

In early 1975, flying out of Grand Forks Air Force Base in North Dakota, an F-15A known as Streak Eagle set many time-to-climb world records. Between Jan. 16 and Feb. 1, 1975, the Streak Eagle broke eight time-to-climb world records. It reached an altitude of 98,425 feet just 3 minutes, 27.8 seconds from brake release at takeoff and coasted to nearly 103,000 feet before descending.

In 1978< I was on them. If the A lost it's radar for any reason it also lost it's gun. It became the worlds most expensive trainer ever made. A few went into the weeds for no apparent reason as well. Tails were broken off or cracked causing the bird to be transported back to the states. Not a real good beginning. But by the time the C model came about it was world class and still is. It had some mighty severe teething problems to get there.

As for the Streak Eagle. They had to rebalance the bird because it carried no radar, guns, missiles and a whole lot of systems. It was a hotrod and not a fighter. Same went for the Mig-25 that the Streak Eagle took the records from. It took that much to take any records from a box stock Navy F-4 that held the records until the stripped Mig. I can see you weren't around back then. When were you born, sometime in the 80s or later?

Us old hands lived through all this. You honestly think that Boeing is going to tell all the truth?

 

[Manonthestreet]

I see more bs.....nothing more....F-15 was hotrod out of the box..........and has only improved.......F-35 is stillborn.......

 

[Daryl Hunt]

I see more bs.....nothing more....F-15 was hotrod out of the box..........and has only improved.......F-35 is stillborn.......

Being a hotrod doesn't make it a good fighter. It grew into the monster it is today. Some take longer than others. Like the F-111. It has a history that makes the F-35 look like a Fairy Tale. Mother Grim (Macnmara) rammed that down everyones throat and it took at least a decade for it to really find a home.

 

[Manonthestreet]

More lies......If it was so bad to begin with funny it never got shot down

 

[Manonthestreet]

The Block 2B version of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which the Marine Corps declared operational in July last year, is not capable of unsupported combat against any serious threat, according to Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon’s director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E). Test Report Points to F-35’s Combat Limits

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The Block 2B version of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter, which the Marine Corps declared operational in July last year, is not capable of unsupported combat against any serious threat, according to Michael Gilmore, the Pentagon’s director of operational test and evaluation (DOT&E). Test Report Points to F-35’s Combat Limits

Can it drop JDAMS from racks? Yes
Can it drop the JDAMS from the racks dead on target? Yes
Can it fire the AMRAAMS and Aim-9X Missiles BVR? Yes
Do we need it as a Air Superiority Fighter? No
Is it a true stealth bird? Yes
Working with AWACS, can it vector in other birds weapons? Yes

Wow, 5 out of 6 ain't bad.

Sounds like it's ready for war, buckie. The fact is, it can't do it all and they don't expect it to.

 

[Manonthestreet]

Unfortunately for you experts disagree.......And yes the Navy will need it to be Air Supe.....oooooops

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Unfortunately for you experts disagree.......And yes the Navy will need it to be Air Supe.....oooooops

I answered your "Experts" with an expert opinion that proves that your "Expert" is just playing Politics and shady dealing with some Military Hardware that is left out of the loop.

And it's not the job of the Navy to fly air superiority. Syria is a bit far to be using F-18s as air fighters. It IS up to the AF to do that job and they are quite capable of doing it. The Marines can pick up some slack in CAS areas that you can't put any other AC in without some heavy loses. You are thinking so narrow. I guess your handler wants to keep you that way and you aren't smart enough to think outside of that tiny box he keeps you in.

 

[Manonthestreet]

All youve posted is lying say so....I post fact after fact with link refuting your bs,,,you have nothing but pie in the sky lies. If it really were rdy it would be in use trying to pump up the production budget and timetable but its not which puts the lie again to your bs

 

[Daryl Hunt]

All youve posted is lying say so....I post fact after fact with link refuting your bs,,,you have nothing but pie in the sky lies. If it really were rdy it would be in use trying to pump up the production budget and timetable but its not which puts the lie again to your bs

And I posted facts on the capability. Your "Expert" obiosly has an ulterior motive. I don't. buy all this BS you are spewing. I am retired AF and am as much an expert as any of your other "Experts". I lived through many transitions and have seen the same doomsayers like you go off each and every time. And each time, you are proven wrong in time. The F-35B can handle CAS better than the A-10. But so can the B-1, B-52, F-15E, AC-130U and a few others. You want to bury the F-35 so you can follow the orders of your Handlers. So be it. You follow your handler but excuse me if others don't.

 

[Indofred]

Do we need it as a Air Superiority Fighter? No

If it isn't superior to enemy aircraft, will it make it to targets if visually detected?

 

[Indofred]

The F-35B can handle CAS better than the A-10

As far as A10 goes, I think we have to look at the reasons the hog was developed, then ask if those reasons are still valid today, moving on to ask if the F35 can be used in that role.

The fast jets of the Vietnam era were incapable of attacking ground targets, and were too prone to battle damage anyway, even if they could loiter for long enough in the area.
Has tech improvements invalidated these reasons, or are the F35's customers about to find out they've been sold a pup, at least as far as CAS goes?