Explaining To Liberals What Obamagate is:

[Dragonlady]

We have a Bill of Rights to protect us from what liberal govt would do to us. One of those things is spy on us.
It is now clear that Obama was using our spy agencies to spy on his political adversaries, namely, General Flynn. Clearly this is against the law and basic American principles and should result in criminal penalties against those most responsible. Not only were they spying on political adversaries but they were leaking what they learned to the press, which is another crime, in hope of gaining political advantage.

You say this is clear. Where is this supposed evidence?

General Flynn wasn't being spied upon - the Russian Ambassador was. If General Flynn is calling the Russian Ambassador on a line he knows is being tapped by the FBI. The CIA and the FBI listened in on the Ambassador's calls to Putin and heard about what Flynn said to Kisliak. Then they found Kisliaks's calls with Flynn.

All of which ignores the fact that FLYNN LIED TO THE FBI. If what he was doing wasn't illegal - why did he lie? He also lied to Mike Pence about these calls.

 

[Lakhota]

 

[Marion Morrison]

obamagate will blow up in trumps fat ass before its over -

Russians living in his namesake tower in apts he sold them,, and laundering money at his casino down the street ............. ?????

yeah, lets investigate spying in trump tower

It's all going to blow up IN YOUR FACE, dumbass. Maybe some justice might be finally meted out.

 

[forkup]

Secondly, show me how Obama used spy agencies to spy on political adversaries?

Obviously Flynn! Obama and Comey were investigating Flynn. They discovered he was trying to prevent Russia form attacking us, and then tried to figure out a away to arrest him for it. They discussed the Logan Act. Then they illegally leaked Flynns name to the press to smear him, then they found Flynn did not lie to FBI, but then Comey took over case, destroyed the original 302 evidence, fabricated his own and arrested Flynn for lying. FBI then threatening to abuse his son if he didn't cooperate on Russian collusion. Flynn did cooperate and no collusion was found just liberal deep state criminality and TDS.


Does the liberal understand now?

Conflict Resolution Mistakes: Stating Opinions As Facts This might be helpful. If I ask you to show something and that's your reply you aren't actually having a conversation IMO.

The facts are as follows. Flynn willfully lied to federal investigators. We know this because Mueller documented it. Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty to Lying to the F.B.I. and Will Cooperate With Russia Inquiry. A guilty plea requires someone to stand up in court and confess. The judge at that time accepted this. Something that clearly indicates that what he confessed to was a crime.

You can and do claim that somehow this is unfair but that's an opinion. You claim he was set up. The simple fact is that in any investigation be it from the FBI or your local cop, getting someone to lie and then confronting him with that lie is an often-used tactic. It's an investigative technic and not at all nefarious.

What he actually plead guilty to was part of a plea bargain. This means that Mueller NOT Comey or Obama, by the way, had other information on him and agreed to not prosecute him in exchange for cooperation on the wider investigation.

This is an opinion but this, Michael Flynn asked for immunity. Senate Intelligence turned him down. don't seem the actions of an innocent man.

So I ask you. Does the conservative understand the difference between fact and opinion now? And does the conservative understand that confusing the two isn't conducive to having an actual debate and in fact undermines your credibility?

 

[Norman]

Bigger then watergate.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Bigger then watergate.

Exponentially bigger than Watergate.

If only there were real investigative reporters in the mainstream media.

 

[Olde Europe]

The facts are as follows. Flynn willfully lied to federal investigators. We know this because Mueller documented it. Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty to Lying to the F.B.I. and Will Cooperate With Russia Inquiry. A guilty plea requires someone to stand up in court and confess. The judge at that time accepted this. Something that clearly indicates that what he confessed to was a crime.

Let's start with the beginning, shall we? Flynn conspired, behind the back of the U.S. government, with the Russian government against the United States. That would be a slightly untoward thing to do for the incoming national security advisor, one might think. That's why Flynn chose to lie about it to Pence and the FBI. The latter is a crime. Flynn knew it, and did it anyway, as he confirmed, twice, under oath.

Our righties turn themselves into pretzels turning that walking, grandstanding crime scene, Flynn, into a hero who prevented the Russians from "attacking" (also an interesting choice of words) the U.S. Of course, the Russians didn't choose not to retaliate to President Obama's sanctions out of the goodness of their hearts - they expected something in return. That lays bare the depravity of Flynn's crimes, and also the depravity of those who would pretend to see nothing in Flynn's criminality.

 

[forkup]

The facts are as follows. Flynn willfully lied to federal investigators. We know this because Mueller documented it. Michael Flynn Pleads Guilty to Lying to the F.B.I. and Will Cooperate With Russia Inquiry. A guilty plea requires someone to stand up in court and confess. The judge at that time accepted this. Something that clearly indicates that what he confessed to was a crime.

Let's start with the beginning, shall we? Flynn conspired, behind the back of the U.S. government, with the Russian government against the United States. That would be a slightly untoward thing to do for the incoming national security advisor, one might think. That's why Flynn chose to lie about it to Pence and the FBI. The latter is a crime. Flynn knew it, and did it anyway, as he confirmed, twice, under oath.

Our righties turn themselves into pretzels turning that walking, grandstanding crime scene, Flynn, into a hero who prevented the Russians from "attacking" (also an interesting choice of words) the U.S. Of course, the Russians didn't choose not to retaliate to President Obama's sanctions out of the goodness of their hearts - they expected something in return. That lays bare the depravity of Flynn's crimes, and also the depravity of those who would pretend to see nothing in Flynn's criminality.

Here I have to kind of disagree. The problem isn't that someone tapped for National Security Advisor opens up back channels to a foreign government prematurely. That's the reason the Logan Act would be hard to prosecute in this or any case. The problem is that that person subsequently lies about having those contacts. Considering that doing so opens him up from blackmail from that government.

 

[Deleted member 73486]

We have a Bill of Rights to protect us from what liberal govt would do to us. One of those things is spy on us.
It is now clear that Obama was using our spy agencies to spy on his political adversaries, namely, General Flynn. Clearly this is against the law and basic American principles and should result in criminal penalties against those most responsible. Not only were they spying on political adversaries but they were leaking what they learned to the press, which is another crime, in hope of gaining political advantage.

They were investigating Flynn AFTER he lied about saying he had no contact with the Russians, when in fact he did have contact with Kislyak regarding the easing of sanctions RIGHT AFTER the sanctions were imposed by Obama.

 

[Olde Europe]

Here I have to kind of disagree. The problem isn't that someone tapped for National Security Advisor opens up back channels to a foreign government prematurely.

No one would ever have objected had Flynn merely established contact, introduced himself to the Russian ambassador. And Flynn wouldn't have had to lie about it. In conspiring with the Russians he undermined U.S. foreign policy. That's the root of the problem, and hence the lies.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

We have a Bill of Rights to protect us from what liberal govt would do to us. One of those things is spy on us.
It is now clear that Obama was using our spy agencies to spy on his political adversaries, namely, General Flynn. Clearly this is against the law and basic American principles and should result in criminal penalties against those most responsible. Not only were they spying on political adversaries but they were leaking what they learned to the press, which is another crime, in hope of gaining political advantage.

“WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump and his GOP allies are misrepresenting the facts behind the legal case of former national security adviser Michael Flynn as they seek to allege improper behavior during the Obama administration in the presidential campaign season.

Broadly dubbing his allegations “Obamagate,” Trump points to unspecified conspiracies against himself in 2016 and suggests the disclosure of Flynn’s name as part of legal U.S. surveillance of foreign targets was criminal and motivated by partisan politics. There’s no evidence of that.

In fact, the so-called unmasking of Americans’ names like Flynn’s is legal, and such requests have been more frequently sought in the Trump administration than in the last stretch of Obama’s tenure.”

AP FACT CHECK: Trump, GOP distortion on Flynn; virus fiction

President Donald Trump and his GOP allies are misrepresenting the facts behind the legal case of former national security adviser Michael Flynn.

apnews.com

Conservatives are enemies of facts and the truth, the thread premise is yet another example.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Trump points to unspecified conspiracies against himself in 2016 and suggests the disclosure of Flynn’s name as part of legal U.S. surveillance of foreign targets was criminal and motivated by partisan politics. There’s no evidence of that.

for 4th time here is what Obamagate is:



1) original investigation of Flynn concluded Flynn did not lie and case was closed
2) Strozk and Paige reopened case and doctored evidence of their interview
3) Flynn was illegally denied his Miranda and Brady like rights
4) Discouraging Russia from attacking USA was Flynn's saintly job so he must have been entrapped by dirty FBI (scum as Don calls them) to lie about it
5) FBI originally concluded Flynn had not lied, but 3 rabid mad dog TDS haters at top of FBI reopened the case for personal reasons.
6) Flynn plead guilty because he loved his son, not because he was guilty
7) TDS made FBI think they could treasonously change an American election by illegal deposing Trump
8) Obama administration colluded with FBI to illegally spy on Trump campaign and illegally leaked information to press to influence election.
9) Now the FBI bottom feeders are reduced to ruining Flynn's life just to show their coup attempt didn't yield absolutely nothing.
10) The Deputy Attorney General, Director of National Intelligence,and Director of the Central Intelligence Agency all agreed that the FBI should notify the incoming Trump administration and Flynn of what had actually been said on the calls, but 3 TDS rabid dogs at FBI refused confident they could build a coup out of Flynn's entrapped lie
11) FBI wants to jail a life long American hero after tricking him into thinking that encouraging Russia not to attack us was somehow a crime! How slimy can you get?
12) In desperation to illegally railroad Flynn Obama/FBI tried to resurrect a 1799 law, The Logan Act, that never had been used in American History, and had it ever been used it would not have remotely applied to Flynn.
13) Deep state Judge Sullivan has actually become, illegally, part of the prosecution and abandoned his job as judge.


a) lied. See Ex. 4 at 5. FBIagents reported to their leadership that Mr.Flynn exhibited a “very sure demeanor” and “did not give any indicatorsof deception.” Ex.13 at 3. Both of the agents “had the impression at the time that Flynn was not lying or did not think he was lying.” Id. When Case 1:17-cr-00232-EGS Document 198 Filed05/07/20 Page 9 of 20 Meanwhile,when asked if he recalled asking countries to take certain actionson the After the interview,the FBIagents expressed uncertainty as to whether Mr.Flynn had Director Comey was asked, based on his evaluation of the case: “Do you believe that Mr.Flynn

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

In conspiring with the Russians he undermined U.S. foreign policy.

exactly!!! If only he had encouraged the Russians to attack us he would have been a liberal hero!!! Instead the SOB actually discouraged them from attacking us!!!

Now you can see why we must be 100% certain that liberalism is based in pure and total ignorance?

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

They were investigating Flynn AFTER he lied about saying he had no contact with the Russians,

totally wrong!! He never lied to FBI about discouraging Russia from attacking us. Why would he lie about doing God's work, especially when he of all people knew the FBI had tapes of his conversations with Russia.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The problem is that that person subsequently lies about having those contacts.

Wrong of course FBI concluded he had not lied and to do so would be insane since Flynn of all people knew FBI had tapes of his conversation. It was later that the FBI rabid mad dogs( scum as Don calls them) with TDS reopened case and created false 302 evidence that he lied. It was much the way they entrapped Carter Page and George Popadoupolous who also turned out to be innocent victims of vicious liberal FBI deep state abuse.

In a more just world when the vicious mad dog TDS liberals discovered from entrapping FLynn, Page, and Popadoupolis that there was no collusion they would have let them go, but no they are vicious mad dogs with TDS determined to ruin lives for no purpose except to insanely pretend that getting Flynn for lying is as important as bringing down Trump for collusion.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Flynn conspired, behind the back of the U.S. government, with the Russian government against the United States.

OMG!!!????? Flynn discouraged Russia from attacking us exactly as Trump and Obama wanted. The exact opposite of a conspiracy!!!!! Notice how, just like the sub morons in pre- Nazi Germany, a modern liberal will believe anything he is told because he has absolutely no ability whatsoever to think for himself!!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That's why Flynn chose to lie about it

FBI concluded he had not lied about it and closed case!!! Second investigation with falsified 302 evidence made him lie or see his son ruined by vicious FBI abuse in total violation of his civil liberties.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That lays bare the depravity of Flynn's crimes,

What lays bare the depravity?????? Afraid to tell us???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Bigger then watergate.

well Watergate was a small time burglary in to get dirt on an political opponent
Obamagate is a deep state conspiracy (the insurance policy) to depose a sitting USA president!!
Which is far more important???

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

The facts are as follows. Flynn willfully lied to federal investigators.

Wrong they concluded he had not lied. It was only later with falsified 302 reports that they made him lie to save his son from deep state abuse.