Expelled Oklahoma U fraternity to sue university, possibly President Boren

[AvgGuyIA]

This isn't about freedom of speech, you idiot. The students were expelled over conduct. When you sing songs about lynching "N's it creates a hostile environment, and those students were in violation of school policy, for which they signed a contract.

If burning our Flag is speech, then so is a song about lynchings ******* or spiks, Pollocks, Jews, nips, crackers and Martians.

 

[rightwinger]

This isn't about freedom of speech, you idiot. The students were expelled over conduct. When you sing songs about lynching "N's it creates a hostile environment, and those students were in violation of school policy, for which they signed a contract.

If burning our Flag is speech, then so is a song about lynchings ******* or spiks, Pollocks, Jews, nips, crackers and Martians.

You are not being arrested for either

If I don't like you burning the flag, I can still fire you or kick you out of my school

 

[AvgGuyIA]

This isn't about two idiots. It's about one of the most fundamental freedoms of our society. If unpopular speech isn't protected, then no speech is protected.

There is an old maxim.... the one thing we learn from history is that we never learn anything from history.

That is true, but liberals have decided they and only they will decide what is protected speech. That's why they will argue their unfounded position forever.

 

[Steinlight]

Since the university no doubt has codes of conduct and a bunch of legalese that probably none of these drunk frat boys bothered to read before they signed, not so much.

Oh, look everyone, Mac is coming out in favor of racist frat boys.

looks like this ****** couldn't get a bid. But please, tell us more about "muh codes of conduct".

 

[jillian]

March 12, 2015: "The local chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon is planning to pursue legal action against the University of Oklahoma, and possibly OU President David Boren.

The group has hired high-profile attorney, Stephen Jones to represent them.

Jones told NewsChannel 4 the group is outraged over President Boren shutting down the fraternity house and branding all SAE members as racists and bigots.

Jones says the two students who were expelled because of the incident have apologized sincerely for their remarks, and now the incident is being exploited."

OU SAE to sue university possibly President Boren KFOR.com

look how excited the bigots are.

 

[Steinlight]

That's the same simplistic, idiotic argument all liberals use: "The college has a code of conduct therefore the expulsion was constitutional." Then we see what legal experts say: "the code could not take precedence over First Amendment rights." Link http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/12/u...oma-students-leads-to-free-speech-debate.html

Do you liberals really think that this all boils down to the existence of a code of conduct? Is there any university that doesn't have one? Do you argue that legal experts somehow believe that OU didn't have a code of conduct?

the first Amendment doesn't prevent universities from taking action, just Congress. so, no.

Now, I'm sure that there's some ambulance chaser who is going to take this to court, and the university might even settle to get rid of the charge.

Not true.

PAPISH v. UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI CURATORS, 410 U.S. 667 (1973)

Expulsion of student for distributing on campus a publication assertedly containing "indecent speech" proscribed by a bylaw of a state university's Board of Curators held an impermissible violation of her First Amendment free speech rights since the mere dissemination of ideas on a state university campus cannot be proscribed in the name of "conventions of decency."

Certiorari granted; 464 F.2d 136, reversed.



PER CURIAM.

FindLaw Cases and Codes

And they weren't even passing out "racist materials", they were having a joke in a private setting among friends.

But this is beyond a mere legal question. The Constitution can be altered and laws can be interpreted differently by different judges. This is a moral question. The fact is, by any reasonable standard of morality, using the state(in this case a government university) to levy punishment upon someone for "wrong speak", particularly for that said in private and in free and voluntary association with friends, is immoral.

 

[PratchettFan]

This isn't about two idiots. It's about one of the most fundamental freedoms of our society. If unpopular speech isn't protected, then no speech is protected.

There is an old maxim.... the one thing we learn from history is that we never learn anything from history.

That is true, but liberals have decided they and only they will decide what is protected speech. That's why they will argue their unfounded position forever.

This is not a liberal or conservative issue. I have heard plenty of people who claim to be conservative who would gladly toss the first out the window when it comes to people they don't like. This is about principle vs philosophy. The first amendment, aside from being law, is a principle. Some people think their philosophy is more important.

 

[JoeMoma]

This isn't about two idiots. It's about one of the most fundamental freedoms of our society. If unpopular speech isn't protected, then no speech is protected.

There is an old maxim.... the one thing we learn from history is that we never learn anything from history.

That is true, but liberals have decided they and only they will decide what is protected speech. That's why they will argue their unfounded position forever.

This is not a liberal or conservative issue. I have heard plenty of people who claim to be conservative who would gladly toss the first out the window when it comes to people they don't like. This is about principle vs philosophy. The first amendment, aside from being law, is a principle. Some people think their philosophy is more important.

Lots of conservatives are on the band wagon for making burning the U.S. Flag illegal (except in the dignified procedure set up to dispose of the flags).

 

[JoeMoma]

Will college kids get expelled now for telling racist jokes "in private"?

 

[rightwinger]

Will college kids get expelled now for telling racist jokes "in private"?

Doesn't seem so

Big difference between that and screaming at the top of your lungs at a fraternity function

No fraternity should tolerate it......SAE encouraged it

 

[JoeMoma]

Will college kids get expelled now for telling racist jokes "in private"?

Doesn't seem so

Big difference between that and screaming at the top of your lungs at a fraternity function

No fraternity should tolerate it......SAE encouraged it

There is a big difference in pulling a fraternity's charter and expelling individual students. By the way, did any of the students that were there make an official complaint to the university?

 

[AvgGuyIA]

"...fraternity to sue university..."

Actually not.

Steven Jones is 'exploring' a 'gentleman's agreement,' meaning he knows he has no case.

Otherwise, it comes as no surprise that many on the right seek to defend racism behind the facade of 'free speech,' when in fact the issue has nothing whatsoever to do with 'free speech.'

It was a song and should be protected like a rap song is protected on that campus.

 

[Steinlight]

Will college kids get expelled now for telling racist jokes "in private"?

Doesn't seem so

Big difference between that and screaming at the top of your lungs at a fraternity function

No fraternity should tolerate it......SAE encouraged it

They must be expelled for not using their indoor voices on the bus.

 

[JoeMoma]

Will sorority girls be expelled if they sing a song about aborting fetuses? Prolife students may find the song offensive.

 

[JoeB131]

Since the university no doubt has codes of conduct and a bunch of legalese that probably none of these drunk frat boys bothered to read before they signed, not so much.

Oh, look everyone, Mac is coming out in favor of racist frat boys.

looks like this ****** couldn't get a bid. But please, tell us more about "muh codes of conduct".

Even if I explained it to you, troll-boy, you still wouldn't get it.

 

[JoeB131]

And they weren't even passing out "racist materials", they were having a joke in a private setting among friends.

But this is beyond a mere legal question. The Constitution can be altered and laws can be interpreted differently by different judges. This is a moral question. The fact is, by any reasonable standard of morality, using the state(in this case a government university) to levy punishment upon someone for "wrong speak", particularly for that said in private and in free and voluntary association with friends, is immoral.

There's no legal question at all. They signed a contract with the university. You follow a code of conduct, you get an education. They broke that code of conduct. this is very simple contract law.

 

[Steinlight]

Since the university no doubt has codes of conduct and a bunch of legalese that probably none of these drunk frat boys bothered to read before they signed, not so much.

Oh, look everyone, Mac is coming out in favor of racist frat boys.

looks like this ****** couldn't get a bid. But please, tell us more about "muh codes of conduct".

Even if I explained it to you, troll-boy, you still wouldn't get it.

The funny thing is, you think you are some legal savant when you are just a hypersensitive control freak and a ******

 

[Steinlight]

And they weren't even passing out "racist materials", they were having a joke in a private setting among friends.

But this is beyond a mere legal question. The Constitution can be altered and laws can be interpreted differently by different judges. This is a moral question. The fact is, by any reasonable standard of morality, using the state(in this case a government university) to levy punishment upon someone for "wrong speak", particularly for that said in private and in free and voluntary association with friends, is immoral.

There's no legal question at all. They signed a contract with the university. You follow a code of conduct, you get an education. They broke that code of conduct. this is very simple contract law.

If there exists such a "code of conduct" that allows the state to levy punishment upon individuals for speech, it is immoral and thoroughly illegal. Thus it is illegitimate and totally null, it has no standing.

You have no standing morally, and as the above case law shows, legally, for your repressive speech codes.

 

[JoeMoma]

Is there a list of what songs students are allowed to sing so that they can avoid being expelled? Perhaps there is a list of songs they are not allowed to sing. If the president can have students expelled for this, exactly where is the line drawn concerning what students can say or sing?

 

[rightwinger]

Will college kids get expelled now for telling racist jokes "in private"?

Doesn't seem so

Big difference between that and screaming at the top of your lungs at a fraternity function

No fraternity should tolerate it......SAE encouraged it

There is a big difference in pulling a fraternity's charter and expelling individual students. By the way, did any of the students that were there make an official complaint to the university?

More telling

Did any of them protest that what they were doing was wrong?