Exactly why was Obama gun running in "Fast and Furious"?

[jon_berzerk]

I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.

That's a great point. I mean, giving guns to drug gangs. When would anyone think that there's anything nefarious in that? Giving ... guns ... to ... drug gangs. I mean that could only be a simple mistake that anyone could make without realizing what they are doing. Who would have predicted without a crystal ball that would end up badly?

I mean seriously, if Obama were on video shooting an old lady in the head, you would defend that too. Giving guns to drug gangs. Wow...

Nobody said they weren't giving guns to drug gangs. Show me where ANYBODY ever said that. That was the plan. What's crazy are the wingnuts who think it was part of some nefarious plot to disarm Americans. And how is calling the administration incompetent defending them?

Did you actually read a single word I wrote, or did you just go "Obama bad. Must type something."

some nefarious plot to disarm Americans

actually it was

until a whistle blower came forward

 

[edthecynic]

OK, fair enough, Obama did charge the drug gangs for the guns, so he sold them instead of giving them. Does that correction really make you feel that much better?

You are still lying! The gun shops charged the straw purchasers who are protected from prosecution by the NRA. Obama was not involved in any transaction.

Now you are the liar. The NRA cannot prevent prosecution of anyone. They are not a government entity.

The NRA lobbied the GOP controlled legislature in Arizona to limit the prosecution of straw buyers. Even if a straw buyer said the guns were for personal use and sold them the instant they walked out of the gun shop, the NRA lobbied policies prevented them from being prosecuted. Straw purchasers could only be prosecuted if they were caught planning to resell the guns in advance of their purchase. Thank you NRA lobbyists.

 

[jon_berzerk]

How did the NRA make it impossible for the government to stop the gunrunning when it was the government doing the gunrunning in the first place?

The whole thing was a manufactured crisis. Get Mexicans killing each other, tie it into American gun sales, and try to get the average American to demand government "do something" meaning more gun laws. The whole thing blew up in Obama's face when Brian Terry got killed with one of those guns Obama sent to Mexico.

How many thousands in Mexico have been killed because of Obama's policy of arming the cartels?

There was a similar program started under the Bush administration as well. Was that part of some nefarious plot to take away your guns too?

Bush

bush was comfortable with gun grabbing

 

[kaz]

You are still lying! The gun shops charged the straw purchasers who are protected from prosecution by the NRA. Obama was not involved in any transaction.

Now you are the liar. The NRA cannot prevent prosecution of anyone. They are not a government entity.

The NRA lobbied the GOP controlled legislature in Arizona to limit the prosecution of straw buyers. Even if a straw buyer said the guns were for personal use and sold them the instant they walked out of the gun shop, the NRA lobbied policies prevented them from being prosecuted. Straw purchasers could only be prosecuted if they were caught planning to resell the guns in advance of their purchase. Thank you NRA lobbyists.

Dude, you're not processing that Obama sold them the guns, are you? He sold them the guns, and he's not to blame because he hadn't' thought it through and wasn't up on the law when he did it?

 

[jon_berzerk]

Now you are the liar. The NRA cannot prevent prosecution of anyone. They are not a government entity.

The NRA lobbied the GOP controlled legislature in Arizona to limit the prosecution of straw buyers. Even if a straw buyer said the guns were for personal use and sold them the instant they walked out of the gun shop, the NRA lobbied policies prevented them from being prosecuted. Straw purchasers could only be prosecuted if they were caught planning to resell the guns in advance of their purchase. Thank you NRA lobbyists.

Dude, you're not processing that Obama sold them the guns, are you? He sold them the guns, and he's not to blame because he hadn't' thought it through and wasn't up on the law when he did it?

not only did the admin allow such sales to take place

the agency gave the felons the money to purchase those firearms

 

[edthecynic]

Now you are the liar. The NRA cannot prevent prosecution of anyone. They are not a government entity.

The NRA lobbied the GOP controlled legislature in Arizona to limit the prosecution of straw buyers. Even if a straw buyer said the guns were for personal use and sold them the instant they walked out of the gun shop, the NRA lobbied policies prevented them from being prosecuted. Straw purchasers could only be prosecuted if they were caught planning to resell the guns in advance of their purchase. Thank you NRA lobbyists.

Dude, you're not processing that Obama sold them the guns, are you? He sold them the guns, and he's not to blame because he hadn't' thought it through and wasn't up on the law when he did it?

Obama sold nothing!!!! You are not processing that you have been lied to by the NRA and GOP hate radio.

 

[edthecynic]

The NRA lobbied the GOP controlled legislature in Arizona to limit the prosecution of straw buyers. Even if a straw buyer said the guns were for personal use and sold them the instant they walked out of the gun shop, the NRA lobbied policies prevented them from being prosecuted. Straw purchasers could only be prosecuted if they were caught planning to resell the guns in advance of their purchase. Thank you NRA lobbyists.

Dude, you're not processing that Obama sold them the guns, are you? He sold them the guns, and he's not to blame because he hadn't' thought it through and wasn't up on the law when he did it?

not only did the admin allow such sales to take place

the agency gave the felons the money to purchase those firearms

Liar!

 

[OODA_Loop]

On June 1, 2010, Dodson used $2,500 of ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[BlindBoo]

the ATF purposely allowed the guns to be sold illegally

please stop being a shill for obama

Nearly all the guns were sold in Az. legally. ATF agents suspected that they were being purchased by straw buyers.

NRA-ILA | Arizona

what does that have to with the fact the ATF allowed illegal sales? it is the same as a bar owner giving a drink to someone he knows is too drunk.

Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns.

Not handguns.

 

[francoHFW]

There is no evidence the Obama administration was ever told about the gunwalking, and the ATF agent in charge said they never were- but carry on, hater dupes...

Justice's Inspector General: No Evidence Holder Knew Of Failed Gun-Walking Sting : The Two-Way : NPR

 

[BlindBoo]

On June 1, 2010, Dodson used $2,500 of ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 tenths of 1% of the guns involved. The other 99.7% did not use ATF funds.

 

[Yurt]

Nearly all the guns were sold in Az. legally. ATF agents suspected that they were being purchased by straw buyers.

NRA-ILA | Arizona

what does that have to with the fact the ATF allowed illegal sales? it is the same as a bar owner giving a drink to someone he knows is too drunk.

Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns.

what part of ILLegal do you not understand?

 

[BlindBoo]

Customers can legally buy as many weapons as they want in Arizona as long as they're 18 or older and pass a criminal background check. There are no waiting periods and no need for permits, and buyers are allowed to resell the guns.

Not handguns.

Got a link for that?

Gun laws in Arizona - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NRA-ILA | Arizona

 

[jon_berzerk]

New revelations in the ongoing Fast and Furious investigation show that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) used taxpayer money to buy assault weapons that they then passed on to Mexican drug cartels. Sources have also claimed that ATF superiors ordered surveillance teams to stop tracking weapons once they were in the cartels’ possession.

Documents Show ATF Bought Guns with Taxpayer Money to Give to Drug Cartels | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News from The Heritage Foundation

 

[OODA_Loop]

On June 1, 2010, Dodson used $2,500 of ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 tenths of 1% of the guns involved. The other 99.7% did not use ATF funds.

Purchasing a firearm in Arizona

 

[BlindBoo]

On June 1, 2010, Dodson used $2,500 of ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3 tenths of 1% of the guns involved. The other 99.7% did not use ATF funds.

Purchasing a firearm in Arizona

My bad, you have to be 21 to buy as many hand guns as you want.

 

[OODA_Loop]

3 tenths of 1% of the guns involved. The other 99.7% did not use ATF funds.

Purchasing a firearm in Arizona

My bad, you have to be 21 to buy as many hand guns as you want.

Great ain't it ?

 

[edthecynic]

On June 1, 2010, Dodson used $2,500 of ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers.

ATF gunwalking scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Dodson was a rogue agent and was the only one to walk any guns. Then after pocketing $700 from the straw purchaser, turned "whistleblower" to cover his ass. Nothing Dodson did was approved by Obama.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

On June 1, Dodson used $2,500 in ATF funds to purchase six AK Draco pistols from local gun dealers, and gave these to Fernandez, who reimbursed him and gave him $700 for his efforts. Two days later, according to case records, Dodson—who would later testify that in his previous experience, "if even one [gun] got away from us, nobody went home until we found it"—left on a scheduled vacation without interdicting the guns. That day, Voth wrote to remind him that money collected as evidence needed to be vouchered within five days. Dodson e-mailed back, his sarcasm fully restored: "Do the orders define a 'day'? Is it; a calendar day? A business day or work day….? An Earth day (because a day on Venus takes 243 Earth days which would mean that I have plenty of time)?"
The guns were never recovered, the case was later closed, and Fernandez was never charged. By any definition, it was gun walking of the most egregious sort: a government agent using taxpayer money to deliver guns to bad guys and then failing to intercept them.

 

[jon_berzerk]

The two AK-type assault rifles were purchased by Jaime Avila from the Lone Wolf Trading Co. outside of Phoenix on Jan. 16, 2010. Avila was recruited by his roommate Uriel Patino. Patino, according to sources, received $70,000 in “seed money” from the FBI informant late in 2009 to buy guns for the cartel.

EXCLUSIVE: Third Gun Linked to 'Fast and Furious' Identified at Border Agent's Murder Scene | Fox News