Exactly why was Obama gun running in "Fast and Furious"?

R

rdean

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So I had a right winger explain to me why they believe Obama was gun running to Mexico.

So correct me if I didn't get it right:

Obama was hoping that American guns will be used by Mexicans to kill Americans so he could take away American's guns. So that was why he was working to put guns in the hands of Mexicans.

Is that it? Cuz if it is, it's really lame. There has to be something more.
 

aaronleland

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I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.
 

RetiredGySgt

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I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.
Well except for that pesky fact the FBI claimed that firearms run to Mexico compromised 90 percent of all firearms in Mexican crimes. When they knew the Government was running the firearms to Mexico and that most of the firearms actually seized or found by Mexican authorities were untraceable, 90 percent of a small fraction of the guns was traceable and lead back to fast and furious.

Further this administration tried to use that claim to create more restrictive laws to prevent law abiding citizens from purchasing firearms.
 

BlindBoo

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I'm pretty sure that when Obama and Holder dropped off their last crate to the Sinaloa drug cartel down in Mexico they told the leader specifically "To make sure they kill hundreds of Americans so we can have a good excuse to 'Grab their Guns'"!

Damn you Obama!!!!!!!!!

Read all about it right here.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
 

aaronleland

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I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.
Well except for that pesky fact the FBI claimed that firearms run to Mexico compromised 90 percent of all firearms in Mexican crimes. When they knew the Government was running the firearms to Mexico and that most of the firearms actually seized or found by Mexican authorities were untraceable, 90 percent of a small fraction of the guns was traceable and lead back to fast and furious.

Further this administration tried to use that claim to create more restrictive laws to prevent law abiding citizens from purchasing firearms.
What restrictive gun laws did the administration try to pass that had any relation to Fast and Furious?
 

TemplarKormac

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I'm pretty sure that when Obama and Holder dropped off their last crate to the Sinaloa drug cartel down in Mexico they told the leader specifically "To make sure they kill hundreds of Americans so we can have a good excuse to 'Grab their Guns'"!

Damn you Obama!!!!!!!!!

Read all about it right here.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
And that my friend is just about as reliable as the NYT's investigative journalism on Benghazi. I mean really, Fortune? They report on stocks and bonds , not scandals and political intrigue.
 

kaz

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I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.
:wtf:

That's a great point. I mean, giving guns to drug gangs. When would anyone think that there's anything nefarious in that? Giving ... guns ... to ... drug gangs. I mean that could only be a simple mistake that anyone could make without realizing what they are doing. Who would have predicted without a crystal ball that would end up badly?

I mean seriously, if Obama were on video shooting an old lady in the head, you would defend that too. Giving guns to drug gangs. Wow...

:eusa_drool:
 

edthecynic

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So I had a right winger explain to me why they believe Obama was gun running to Mexico.

So correct me if I didn't get it right:

Obama was hoping that American guns will be used by Mexicans to kill Americans so he could take away American's guns. So that was why he was working to put guns in the hands of Mexicans.

Is that it? Cuz if it is, it's really lame. There has to be something more.
As moronic as that rationalization is, that is what the NRA claims and the idiots swallow that bullshit whole. The guns ended up in Mexico because the NRA made it impossible to stop them and fabricated that bullshit rationalization to cover their blood covered asses. The NRA, being nothing but shills for the gun industry, lobby to prevent the government from blocking gunrunning to Mexico because the gun industry wants to sell more guns.

 

aaronleland

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I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.
:wtf:

That's a great point. I mean, giving guns to drug gangs. When would anyone think that there's anything nefarious in that? Giving ... guns ... to ... drug gangs. I mean that could only be a simple mistake that anyone could make without realizing what they are doing. Who would have predicted without a crystal ball that would end up badly?

I mean seriously, if Obama were on video shooting an old lady in the head, you would defend that too. Giving guns to drug gangs. Wow...

:eusa_drool:
Nobody said they weren't giving guns to drug gangs. Show me where ANYBODY ever said that. That was the plan. What's crazy are the wingnuts who think it was part of some nefarious plot to disarm Americans. And how is calling the administration incompetent defending them?

Did you actually read a single word I wrote, or did you just go "Obama bad. Must type something."
 

Steven_R

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As moronic as that rationalization is, that is what the NRA claims and the idiots swallow that bullshit whole. The guns ended up in Mexico because the NRA made it impossible to stop them and fabricated that bullshit rationalization to cover their blood covered asses. The NRA, being nothing but shills for the gun industry, lobby to prevent the government from blocking gunrunning to Mexico because the gun industry wants to sell more guns.
How did the NRA make it impossible for the government to stop the gunrunning when it was the government doing the gunrunning in the first place?

The whole thing was a manufactured crisis. Get Mexicans killing each other, tie it into American gun sales, and try to get the average American to demand government "do something" meaning more gun laws. The whole thing blew up in Obama's face when Brian Terry got killed with one of those guns Obama sent to Mexico.

How many thousands in Mexico have been killed because of Obama's policy of arming the cartels?
 

aaronleland

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How did the NRA make it impossible for the government to stop the gunrunning when it was the government doing the gunrunning in the first place?

The whole thing was a manufactured crisis. Get Mexicans killing each other, tie it into American gun sales, and try to get the average American to demand government "do something" meaning more gun laws. The whole thing blew up in Obama's face when Brian Terry got killed with one of those guns Obama sent to Mexico.

How many thousands in Mexico have been killed because of Obama's policy of arming the cartels?
There was a similar program started under the Bush administration as well. Was that part of some nefarious plot to take away your guns too?
 

RetiredGySgt

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How did the NRA make it impossible for the government to stop the gunrunning when it was the government doing the gunrunning in the first place?

The whole thing was a manufactured crisis. Get Mexicans killing each other, tie it into American gun sales, and try to get the average American to demand government "do something" meaning more gun laws. The whole thing blew up in Obama's face when Brian Terry got killed with one of those guns Obama sent to Mexico.

How many thousands in Mexico have been killed because of Obama's policy of arming the cartels?
There was a similar program started under the Bush administration as well. Was that part of some nefarious plot to take away your guns too?
ok time for some facts. Bush's program was deemed to not work after only 400 firearms went missing. MAJOR differences between Bush and Obama program..... Under Bush the Mexican Government was involved, they were to track the firearms in Mexico, after 400 firearms went in they informed the US they could not track the weapons and the program was shut down.

Under Obama the Mexican Government was not only not involved they were NEVER notified. The SAME people under Bush ran the Obama program, THEY KNEW the program did not work WITH Mexican cooperation, why exactly would it work with none? What bright person said hey it did not work when we used the Mexicans lets try this time with no cooperation, no assets in Mexico to even attempt to track the firearms. No arrests in the US in fact agents were forbidden from interfering with the transfers and in fact dealers were TOLD to sell them the firearms.

Getting the point yet?
 

Steven_R

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The program under Bush involved the Mexican government as part of the operation and attempted to track the guns on the Mexican side. When it was clear the operation wasn't working, it was halted.

Under Obama, there was no involvement or knowledge of what was going on as far as the Mexican government was concerned, nor was there any way to track who had what once it was in Mexico.

Go back to 2009 and 2010 and how much Obama and friends were bloviating about gun violence in Mexico and how we really really really needed to get rid of a gun loophole. Considering Obama was the one behind the gun violence on one hand and saying we needed more laws on the other to combat the gun violence in Mexico, what would you say his motive was?

Maybe you're right. Obama wasn't evil, just stupid and incompetent. That makes it better.
 

kaz

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I think it was just incompetence on his part, but the wingnuts on this board aren't about to accept that simple of an answer. It has to be some dark, insidious plot to take away American's guns. Then probably something involving FEMA camps.
:wtf:

That's a great point. I mean, giving guns to drug gangs. When would anyone think that there's anything nefarious in that? Giving ... guns ... to ... drug gangs. I mean that could only be a simple mistake that anyone could make without realizing what they are doing. Who would have predicted without a crystal ball that would end up badly?

I mean seriously, if Obama were on video shooting an old lady in the head, you would defend that too. Giving guns to drug gangs. Wow...

:eusa_drool:
Nobody said they weren't giving guns to drug gangs. Show me where ANYBODY ever said that. That was the plan. What's crazy are the wingnuts who think it was part of some nefarious plot to disarm Americans. And how is calling the administration incompetent defending them?

Did you actually read a single word I wrote, or did you just go "Obama bad. Must type something."
You wrote off giving guns to drug gangs as "incompetence." That is what I mocked. You didn't identify poor reading skills, you demonstrated them.

And yeah, calling it mere "incompetence" when the Obama administration gave ... guns ... to ... drug gangs ... is completely defending them. You're writing off a seriously terrible thing that resulted in murders and government provide arms going to the worst elements in Mexico as just a failure to think it through and anticipate what might happen.
 

CrusaderFrank

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Holder and Obama just like the idea of violent Mexican drug gangs with automatic weapons, it's a Progressive thing, you wouldn't understand
 
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kaz

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Holder and Obama just like the idea violent Mexican drug gangs with automatic weapons, it's a Progressive thing, you wouldn't understand
Obama wants to disarm honest Americans, arm Mexican drug gangs and keep the border between us open. You're right about one thing, I don't understand...
 
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BlindBoo

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As moronic as that rationalization is, that is what the NRA claims and the idiots swallow that bullshit whole. The guns ended up in Mexico because the NRA made it impossible to stop them and fabricated that bullshit rationalization to cover their blood covered asses. The NRA, being nothing but shills for the gun industry, lobby to prevent the government from blocking gunrunning to Mexico because the gun industry wants to sell more guns.
How did the NRA make it impossible for the government to stop the gunrunning when it was the government doing the gunrunning in the first place?

The whole thing was a manufactured crisis. Get Mexicans killing each other, tie it into American gun sales, and try to get the average American to demand government "do something" meaning more gun laws. The whole thing blew up in Obama's face when Brian Terry got killed with one of those guns Obama sent to Mexico.

How many thousands in Mexico have been killed because of Obama's policy of arming the cartels?
The Cartels have been killing Mexicans (an other south of the border nationalities) for a long while now with American made weapons. Very seldom does the carnage reach the American public. Most of these weapons are stolen from the Mexican Military. Guess who their major supplier is. The ATF was not running guns, selling guns, or giving guns away.

It was a manufactured scandal...........

The policy of shooting bean bag shot is more to blame than the ATF, besides isn't "Guns don't kill people, people kill people" the mantra of the NRA?

Of course the overriding policy that caused Brian Terry's death is the War on Drugs.
 

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