Ex-Employee Leaks Details About Refugee Abuse On Nauru

[Lucy Hamilton]

If these children are being raped the fault is with their parents.

You'll have to elaborate about this, I'm not understanding how these children being raped is the fault of the parents.

 

[Coyote]

We've been pointing out the well known pedophila problem the Muslim culture has. You've never seemed to care before. You types usually blow it off as lies or propaganda.

Would you support forcing every able bodied male Muslim "refugee" to go back to their shithole country, and only allow women and young children to apply for refugee status? That would certainly protect them from a great deal of abuse.

You better be careful or they'll twist it and accuse you of defending child abuse, Coyote can explain my comment to you if you need elaboration.

I beleive all child abusers and rapists of adult women should be executed.
I doubt Coyote feels as strongly about the issue as me.

I've made many comments about how I strongly support all child abusers and all rapists being executed, just take them out, force them onto their knees, put a bullet in the nape of their necks, put them in a hole and throw quicklime onto them.

It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?

So Coyote DO certain people DEFEND child abuse, come on, don't hold back, let's have your opinion, I'm sure you can provide links to all of the times certain people have defended child abuse, help your little pets here.

Of course Coyote hasn't the will to confine her diseased infested pets to the Ebola Tent.

Edited to add comment.

I have been accused of defending child abuse and rape here Lucy. From your pets here.

"It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?"

Yes, that is correct.

For the record, I've never seen you defend child abuse nor do I believe you would. I know you are a mother, and I know what that means to you. I would never imagine you ever defending child abuse.

What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured.

The situation of you being accused of defending child abuse, it's possibly in the abstract sense. What I mean those who defend Islam to a certain extent are ALL going to be accused of the same thing, this is because Mohammed was a paedophile and in Islamic society sex with pre-pubescent children is tolerated and for the reason that their Perfect Being ie. Mohammed was a paedophile himself.

There was nothing abstract about it to me. But even the claim that Mohammed was a pedo is open to challenge. Mohammed lived in an era where girls were married early - by 12 even. The accounts of Aisha's age are very debatable and depend on what hadith you take it from - all of which were written after Mohammed's death. If Mohammed was a pedo, then one would think all his wives would have been quite young.

The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah
Rejecting the Myth of Sanctioned Child Marriage in Islam
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

Smearing Mohammed as a pedo is a modern invention and not well supported by historical analysis. There is no evidence that he had traffic with children or anything out of the norm of the society at the time. That being said - there is some legitimacy in the claim that some Muslims use that as a justification for marrying children. Forced marriages and child marriages are still prevalent in certain Muslim-majority countries (as well as in non-Muslim countries) and religion is used as an excuse in those Muslim countries where it's still allowed. Like child marriages in Hindu societies it's far more prevalent in the rural and tribal areas where education is poor, girls are unvalued and poverty is high. The struggle to combat that is hard because many factors play into it - education, the value of women, poverty, cultural traditions that even the best laws on the books have a hard time irradicating. I guess I should add a disclaimer: stating this is not excusing it. Where it occurs, it should be combated, but you aren't going to combat a complex problem by attacking all the followers of a particular faith, many of whom are trying to end these practices much like Hindus tried to end Suti and are also trying to end child-marriages.

"What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured."

They all would be in this distressing situation if they'd have fled to more suitable environments, often the surrounding areas they're fleeing from are pretty safe, they should flee to those, if not they should be deported and those safe surrounding areas should be forced to take these people.

Of course it's ridiculous to throw together in confined quarters Sunni's, Shia's, Kurd's, Afghan's, Iraqi's and gazillions of African Tribesmen and not expect all sorts of trouble.

Because it is a complex problem there are no easy solutions. One thing I would ask you: what would be bad enough to cause you to take all of your savings, pay human smugglers to get you on a boat, knowing you have a good chance of not surviving the passage and drowning and knowing you have no way of knowing how it will end? What would cause you to risk death?

It also doesn't help that many of these men will **** anything that moves, be it another man, a woman, a child or a four-legged animal.

I think that is largely a myth used to demonize. It's exactly what they used to say about black men in America.

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

If these children are being raped the fault is with their parents.

What a disgusting excuse.

It is like the excuse some make in the IP forum when Jewish children are killed by stone throwing - that it's the fault of the parents because they shouldn't be living in occupied territory. It's the fault of the person who did it - and no one else.

You're both right. The guilt for an offense rests primarily with the person who did it. But some kids are more exposed to the dangers of the criminal element than others, sadly, because their parents don't love them enough to take drastic measures to protect them, to get them out and away from it. All parents say they love their children, but their actions will always tell the truth. "Overprotective" parents have kids who are rarely preyed upon.

 

[koshergrl]

If this doesn't prove the savage nature of the criminals that morons.like coyote want to wave across.our borders, I don't know what does.

 

[theHawk]

You better be careful or they'll twist it and accuse you of defending child abuse, Coyote can explain my comment to you if you need elaboration.

I beleive all child abusers and rapists of adult women should be executed.
I doubt Coyote feels as strongly about the issue as me.

I've made many comments about how I strongly support all child abusers and all rapists being executed, just take them out, force them onto their knees, put a bullet in the nape of their necks, put them in a hole and throw quicklime onto them.

It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?

So Coyote DO certain people DEFEND child abuse, come on, don't hold back, let's have your opinion, I'm sure you can provide links to all of the times certain people have defended child abuse, help your little pets here.

Of course Coyote hasn't the will to confine her diseased infested pets to the Ebola Tent.

Edited to add comment.

I have been accused of defending child abuse and rape here Lucy. From your pets here.

"It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?"

Yes, that is correct.

For the record, I've never seen you defend child abuse nor do I believe you would. I know you are a mother, and I know what that means to you. I would never imagine you ever defending child abuse.

What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured.

The situation of you being accused of defending child abuse, it's possibly in the abstract sense. What I mean those who defend Islam to a certain extent are ALL going to be accused of the same thing, this is because Mohammed was a paedophile and in Islamic society sex with pre-pubescent children is tolerated and for the reason that their Perfect Being ie. Mohammed was a paedophile himself.

There was nothing abstract about it to me. But even the claim that Mohammed was a pedo is open to challenge. Mohammed lived in an era where girls were married early - by 12 even. The accounts of Aisha's age are very debatable and depend on what hadith you take it from - all of which were written after Mohammed's death. If Mohammed was a pedo, then one would think all his wives would have been quite young.

The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah
Rejecting the Myth of Sanctioned Child Marriage in Islam
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

Smearing Mohammed as a pedo is a modern invention and not well supported by historical analysis. There is no evidence that he had traffic with children or anything out of the norm of the society at the time. That being said - there is some legitimacy in the claim that some Muslims use that as a justification for marrying children. Forced marriages and child marriages are still prevalent in certain Muslim-majority countries (as well as in non-Muslim countries) and religion is used as an excuse in those Muslim countries where it's still allowed. Like child marriages in Hindu societies it's far more prevalent in the rural and tribal areas where education is poor, girls are unvalued and poverty is high. The struggle to combat that is hard because many factors play into it - education, the value of women, poverty, cultural traditions that even the best laws on the books have a hard time irradicating. I guess I should add a disclaimer: stating this is not excusing it. Where it occurs, it should be combated, but you aren't going to combat a complex problem by attacking all the followers of a particular faith, many of whom are trying to end these practices much like Hindus tried to end Suti and are also trying to end child-marriages.

"What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured."

They all would be in this distressing situation if they'd have fled to more suitable environments, often the surrounding areas they're fleeing from are pretty safe, they should flee to those, if not they should be deported and those safe surrounding areas should be forced to take these people.

Of course it's ridiculous to throw together in confined quarters Sunni's, Shia's, Kurd's, Afghan's, Iraqi's and gazillions of African Tribesmen and not expect all sorts of trouble.

Because it is a complex problem there are no easy solutions. One thing I would ask you: what would be bad enough to cause you to take all of your savings, pay human smugglers to get you on a boat, knowing you have a good chance of not surviving the passage and drowning and knowing you have no way of knowing how it will end? What would cause you to risk death?

It also doesn't help that many of these men will **** anything that moves, be it another man, a woman, a child or a four-legged animal.

I think that is largely a myth used to demonize. It's exactly what they used to say about black men in America.

She was only 9. That's pedophila in any period.

So there we have it, Coyote fully defending the pedophile prophet.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a bit of a spin off from another thread - the condition of refugees and migrants in detention centers. What's been happening on Nauru has only recently come to light, but mirrors conditions in other terribly overcrowded refugee centers.

There is reason international law mandates that children not be imprisoned or detained with adults and that men and women are housed seperately. Overcrowding, insufficient resources, no known future - all of that can lead to severe problems and abuse on the most vulnerable, in this case children and women.

One article I read talked about human trafficking occuring in some of these camps, where young girls and women are "married" by UAE/Kuwaiti men looking for sex, and then dumped when they become pregnant. These camps jam migrants and refugees from dozens of nationalities and cultures and backgrounds together and too few people overseeing it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/world/australia/nauru-asylum-seeker-refugee-abuse.html

Leaked documents published Wednesday reveal extensive details about the harsh conditions faced by asylum seekers who have tried to reach Australia by boat and are being held on the remote Pacific island of Nauru.

More than 2,000 incident reports, written by detention-center staff members and published by The Guardian, describe episodes of violence, including sexual assault, and self-harm. Most of the cases involved children, the newspaper said, although children made up just 18 percent of the people in detention at the time of the reports. The files extend from May 2013 to October 2015.

While the difficult conditions in the island nation have long been known, the documentation will give new evidence to opponents of Australia’s policies toward asylum seekers.

Under those policies, migrants who try to reach Australia by boat without a valid visa are held offshore in Nauru and Papua New Guinea. Even if given refugee status, they are prevented from resettling in Australia.

The Australian authorities say such tough measures are necessary to discourage attempts to make the risky voyages by sea, which have sometimes ended in mass drownings. The number of attempted boat arrivals has declined sharply since the Labor Party government of Julia Gillard revived a program of offshore detentions in 2012, and the policy is maintained today under Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of the conservative Liberal Party.​

Since when have "tough measures" included the abuse of children???? Or rape?

Among the episodes outlined in the documents are multiple cases of people cutting themselves; security officers propositioning and harassing female detainees; and one instance of an officer putting his hand into a boy’s shorts during a car ride. According to that report, the boy’s father, who was also in the car, pulled the boy away but did not say anything to either of the two Nauruan officers present for fear of their reaction.​

Has it ever occurred to you that the Islam you defend so mindlessly is the very reason there are refugees to begin with? Islam does not tolerate Christians, ergo, refugees.

Migrants are coming from a variety of areas, and the reasons they are fleeing vary from economic hardship, civil war, political unrest, persecution etc. Not sure why you feel the need to make it about Islam particularly since there is no evidence the majority of these migrants are Christians fleeing Islamic persecution.

Where do Australia’s asylum seekers come from?

The majority of the applications for asylum come from (top ten):

China
Afghanistan
India
Iran
Sri Lanka
Iraq
Pakistan
Indonesia
Fiji
Malaysia

Help me out here. I'm confused. These folks are not criminal inmates. They are special immigration detainees. So the status of the children matters. If they are UNESCORTED minors -- then they certainly should be segregated from the rest. But to remove children from parents and guardians, in a place with that much stress seems like the wrong thing to do.

Then about the General Asylum stats you used above --- This is for ALL people who LAND in Australia and invoke asylum. My understanding is that Nauru is used for intercepted refugees before they step into Australia. The make-up of these detainees may very well be different than the numbers as a whole.

Australia is providing funding for temporary shelter and care.. They should also provide some form of legal adjunct to local island police. That's a political issue. And could ruin the deal.

This problem was CREATED by western intervention in the MidEast. Some of that intervention was necessary, but most of it was not. And the entire West and the UN and G20 and all of humanitarian watchdogs failed to set aside adequate refugee capacity in the MidEast. Shouldn't be exodus from these regions in the millions.

The US has a history of intercepting Caribbean refugees, burning their leaky boats, and shipping directly back to Haiti or other places where migration exceeded capacity to absorb.

 

[Coyote]

This is a bit of a spin off from another thread - the condition of refugees and migrants in detention centers. What's been happening on Nauru has only recently come to light, but mirrors conditions in other terribly overcrowded refugee centers.

There is reason international law mandates that children not be imprisoned or detained with adults and that men and women are housed seperately. Overcrowding, insufficient resources, no known future - all of that can lead to severe problems and abuse on the most vulnerable, in this case children and women.

One article I read talked about human trafficking occuring in some of these camps, where young girls and women are "married" by UAE/Kuwaiti men looking for sex, and then dumped when they become pregnant. These camps jam migrants and refugees from dozens of nationalities and cultures and backgrounds together and too few people overseeing it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/world/australia/nauru-asylum-seeker-refugee-abuse.html

Leaked documents published Wednesday reveal extensive details about the harsh conditions faced by asylum seekers who have tried to reach Australia by boat and are being held on the remote Pacific island of Nauru.

More than 2,000 incident reports, written by detention-center staff members and published by The Guardian, describe episodes of violence, including sexual assault, and self-harm. Most of the cases involved children, the newspaper said, although children made up just 18 percent of the people in detention at the time of the reports. The files extend from May 2013 to October 2015.

While the difficult conditions in the island nation have long been known, the documentation will give new evidence to opponents of Australia’s policies toward asylum seekers.

Under those policies, migrants who try to reach Australia by boat without a valid visa are held offshore in Nauru and Papua New Guinea. Even if given refugee status, they are prevented from resettling in Australia.

The Australian authorities say such tough measures are necessary to discourage attempts to make the risky voyages by sea, which have sometimes ended in mass drownings. The number of attempted boat arrivals has declined sharply since the Labor Party government of Julia Gillard revived a program of offshore detentions in 2012, and the policy is maintained today under Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of the conservative Liberal Party.​

Since when have "tough measures" included the abuse of children???? Or rape?

Among the episodes outlined in the documents are multiple cases of people cutting themselves; security officers propositioning and harassing female detainees; and one instance of an officer putting his hand into a boy’s shorts during a car ride. According to that report, the boy’s father, who was also in the car, pulled the boy away but did not say anything to either of the two Nauruan officers present for fear of their reaction.​

Has it ever occurred to you that the Islam you defend so mindlessly is the very reason there are refugees to begin with? Islam does not tolerate Christians, ergo, refugees.

Migrants are coming from a variety of areas, and the reasons they are fleeing vary from economic hardship, civil war, political unrest, persecution etc. Not sure why you feel the need to make it about Islam particularly since there is no evidence the majority of these migrants are Christians fleeing Islamic persecution.

Where do Australia’s asylum seekers come from?

The majority of the applications for asylum come from (top ten):

China
Afghanistan
India
Iran
Sri Lanka
Iraq
Pakistan
Indonesia
Fiji
Malaysia

Help me out here. I'm confused. These folks are not criminal inmates. They are special immigration detainees. So the status of the children matters. If they are UNESCORTED minors -- then they certainly should be segregated from the rest. But to remove children from parents and guardians, in a place with that much stress seems like the wrong thing to do.

That's a good point - I don't actually know if they are unescorted minors or not. Regardless though - they should not allow a situation to exist where children are brutalized - whether by guards or by other detainees. When the state incarcerates someone - or takes away their liberty, for whatever reason, they have a responsibility towards that person's well being - to at least meet minimal standards. These people aren't convicted criminals or violent offenders. Those children should not be brutalized by guards or other inmates.

The HRC issued some pretty damning reports on the conditions these children had to endure and this report issued some recommendations, which make sense for FAMILIES, so children aren't seperated from their families but are removed from these abusive situations.

The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention 2014 | Medical Journal of Australia
Key recommendations of the report are:

• That all children and their families in detention in Australia and Nauru be released as soon as possible.
• That legislation be enacted so that children may only be detained for as long as is necessary for health, identity and security checks.
• That no child be sent offshore for processing unless it is clear that their human rights will be respected.

Then about the General Asylum stats you used above --- This is for ALL people who LAND in Australia and invoke asylum. My understanding is that Nauru is used for intercepted refugees before they step into Australia. The make-up of these detainees may very well be different than the numbers as a whole.

That is a good point, and I'm trying to find information on the actual demographics. The sense that I get from what I've found is a lot from Malaysia and Sri Lanka - but I don't have hard data. I'll keep looking.

Australia is providing funding for temporary shelter and care.. They should also provide some form of legal adjunct to local island police. That's a political issue. And could ruin the deal.

The Australian government is also covering up abuses - they strictly limit entry, there are no independent observers, no human rights representatives allowed. No media of course. IMO, that is a bad situation.

This problem was CREATED by western intervention in the MidEast. Some of that intervention was necessary, but most of it was not. And the entire West and the UN and G20 and all of humanitarian watchdogs failed to set aside adequate refugee capacity in the MidEast. Shouldn't be exodus from these regions in the millions.

The US has a history of intercepting Caribbean refugees, burning their leaky boats, and shipping directly back to Haiti or other places where migration exceeded capacity to absorb.

I don't entirely agree. For one - all the international focus is on the MidEast, in particular Syria, and all the refugees that civil war has created. That eclipses the much larger problem which is that we are seeing the biggest population of displaced people ever and they are coming from all over.

Worldwide displacement hits all-time high as war and persecution increase

Returning them safely back, as long as the return doesn't put them in danger seems to me to be the best option - but, there are legitimate asylum seekers for whom return could well mean death. There needs to be a process to expedite this.

 

[Coyote]

I beleive all child abusers and rapists of adult women should be executed.
I doubt Coyote feels as strongly about the issue as me.

I've made many comments about how I strongly support all child abusers and all rapists being executed, just take them out, force them onto their knees, put a bullet in the nape of their necks, put them in a hole and throw quicklime onto them.

It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?

So Coyote DO certain people DEFEND child abuse, come on, don't hold back, let's have your opinion, I'm sure you can provide links to all of the times certain people have defended child abuse, help your little pets here.

Of course Coyote hasn't the will to confine her diseased infested pets to the Ebola Tent.

Edited to add comment.

I have been accused of defending child abuse and rape here Lucy. From your pets here.

"It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?"

Yes, that is correct.

For the record, I've never seen you defend child abuse nor do I believe you would. I know you are a mother, and I know what that means to you. I would never imagine you ever defending child abuse.

What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured.

The situation of you being accused of defending child abuse, it's possibly in the abstract sense. What I mean those who defend Islam to a certain extent are ALL going to be accused of the same thing, this is because Mohammed was a paedophile and in Islamic society sex with pre-pubescent children is tolerated and for the reason that their Perfect Being ie. Mohammed was a paedophile himself.

There was nothing abstract about it to me. But even the claim that Mohammed was a pedo is open to challenge. Mohammed lived in an era where girls were married early - by 12 even. The accounts of Aisha's age are very debatable and depend on what hadith you take it from - all of which were written after Mohammed's death. If Mohammed was a pedo, then one would think all his wives would have been quite young.

The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah
Rejecting the Myth of Sanctioned Child Marriage in Islam
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

Smearing Mohammed as a pedo is a modern invention and not well supported by historical analysis. There is no evidence that he had traffic with children or anything out of the norm of the society at the time. That being said - there is some legitimacy in the claim that some Muslims use that as a justification for marrying children. Forced marriages and child marriages are still prevalent in certain Muslim-majority countries (as well as in non-Muslim countries) and religion is used as an excuse in those Muslim countries where it's still allowed. Like child marriages in Hindu societies it's far more prevalent in the rural and tribal areas where education is poor, girls are unvalued and poverty is high. The struggle to combat that is hard because many factors play into it - education, the value of women, poverty, cultural traditions that even the best laws on the books have a hard time irradicating. I guess I should add a disclaimer: stating this is not excusing it. Where it occurs, it should be combated, but you aren't going to combat a complex problem by attacking all the followers of a particular faith, many of whom are trying to end these practices much like Hindus tried to end Suti and are also trying to end child-marriages.

"What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured."

They all would be in this distressing situation if they'd have fled to more suitable environments, often the surrounding areas they're fleeing from are pretty safe, they should flee to those, if not they should be deported and those safe surrounding areas should be forced to take these people.

Of course it's ridiculous to throw together in confined quarters Sunni's, Shia's, Kurd's, Afghan's, Iraqi's and gazillions of African Tribesmen and not expect all sorts of trouble.

Because it is a complex problem there are no easy solutions. One thing I would ask you: what would be bad enough to cause you to take all of your savings, pay human smugglers to get you on a boat, knowing you have a good chance of not surviving the passage and drowning and knowing you have no way of knowing how it will end? What would cause you to risk death?

It also doesn't help that many of these men will **** anything that moves, be it another man, a woman, a child or a four-legged animal.

I think that is largely a myth used to demonize. It's exactly what they used to say about black men in America.

She was only 9. That's pedophila in any period.

So there we have it, Coyote fully defending the pedophile prophet.

From one of the articles I listed:

There are really only three reasons to insist — as so many do — that Aisha was only 9 years old when Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) married her: Either you are such a crazy Islamophile that you are willing to go to your grave insisting Muhammad could do whatever he wanted, or you are such a crazy Islamophobe that you want to insist he did, or you are such a weirdly religious sex-crazed pervert that you hope accusing him makes it OK for you to do it too.


There is absolutely no other reason to either make or repeat that disgusting claim. Aisha was married in 622 C.E., and although her exact birthday is unknown, Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorded that it happened before Islam was revealed in 610. The earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Abu Muhammad ‘Abd al-Malik bin Hisham’s recension of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah — The Life of the Messenger of God records that Aisha accepted Islam shortly after it was revealed — 12 years before her marriage — and there is no way she could have done so as an infant or toddler.


Furthermore, it is a matter of incontrovertible historical record that Aisha was involved in the Battles of Badr in 624 and Uhud in 625, in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 allowed.


Finally, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, dead for more than 700 years, recorded in the biographical section of Miskat al-Masabih that Asma, her elder sister of 10 years, died at the age of 100, 72 years after Aisha’s wedding. This makes Aisha’s age at the time of her marriage at least 14, and at the time of her marriage’s consummation almost 20. ​

 

[flacaltenn]

Pretty ******* unreal. This is a thread about a horrifically abusive situation in a migrant detention center, of a supposedly civilized country, that has nothing to do with Muslims, where the migrants aren't even all or mostly Muslim and you guys have to turn it into a vehicle for your anti-muslim propoganda hatefest?????

Children should never be incarcerated with adult males of ANY religion. Men and women should be segregated. The abuse is being perpetrated by the guards and men incarcerated in the center. There is no independent human rights observer, no media access and no oversight.

I'm concerned that people associate this with incarceration. And are asking to tear families apart by sex and age. For a non-criminal situation that could last several years. Segregating wives, husbands and children seems to go in the wrong direction of compassion..

 

[Vastator]

The most important part of the OP...

The number of attempted boat arrivals has declined sharply since theLabor Party government ofJulia Gillard revived a programof offshore detentions in 2012...

This what the US should consider looong before bringing these people here.

 

[Coyote]

Pretty ******* unreal. This is a thread about a horrifically abusive situation in a migrant detention center, of a supposedly civilized country, that has nothing to do with Muslims, where the migrants aren't even all or mostly Muslim and you guys have to turn it into a vehicle for your anti-muslim propoganda hatefest?????

Children should never be incarcerated with adult males of ANY religion. Men and women should be segregated. The abuse is being perpetrated by the guards and men incarcerated in the center. There is no independent human rights observer, no media access and no oversight.

I'm concerned that people associate this with incarceration. And are asking to tear families apart by sex and age. For a non-criminal situation that could last several years. Segregating wives, husbands and children seems to go in the wrong direction of compassion..

I agree, that is a good point. You should not separate familes - that would be the absolutely wrong thing to do. But perhaps families should be given some sort of special consideration so they are not put together with single men. That doesn't of course take into account the guards.

 

[Coyote]

The most important part of the OP...

The number of attempted boat arrivals has declined sharply since theLabor Party government ofJulia Gillard revived a programof offshore detentions in 2012...

This what the US should consider looong before bringing these people here.

I don't think allowing the abuse of children is worth it.

 

[Vastator]

Better thier kids than ours...

 

[theHawk]

I've made many comments about how I strongly support all child abusers and all rapists being executed, just take them out, force them onto their knees, put a bullet in the nape of their necks, put them in a hole and throw quicklime onto them.

It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?

So Coyote DO certain people DEFEND child abuse, come on, don't hold back, let's have your opinion, I'm sure you can provide links to all of the times certain people have defended child abuse, help your little pets here.

Of course Coyote hasn't the will to confine her diseased infested pets to the Ebola Tent.

Edited to add comment.

I have been accused of defending child abuse and rape here Lucy. From your pets here.

"It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?"

Yes, that is correct.

For the record, I've never seen you defend child abuse nor do I believe you would. I know you are a mother, and I know what that means to you. I would never imagine you ever defending child abuse.

What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured.

The situation of you being accused of defending child abuse, it's possibly in the abstract sense. What I mean those who defend Islam to a certain extent are ALL going to be accused of the same thing, this is because Mohammed was a paedophile and in Islamic society sex with pre-pubescent children is tolerated and for the reason that their Perfect Being ie. Mohammed was a paedophile himself.

There was nothing abstract about it to me. But even the claim that Mohammed was a pedo is open to challenge. Mohammed lived in an era where girls were married early - by 12 even. The accounts of Aisha's age are very debatable and depend on what hadith you take it from - all of which were written after Mohammed's death. If Mohammed was a pedo, then one would think all his wives would have been quite young.

The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah
Rejecting the Myth of Sanctioned Child Marriage in Islam
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

Smearing Mohammed as a pedo is a modern invention and not well supported by historical analysis. There is no evidence that he had traffic with children or anything out of the norm of the society at the time. That being said - there is some legitimacy in the claim that some Muslims use that as a justification for marrying children. Forced marriages and child marriages are still prevalent in certain Muslim-majority countries (as well as in non-Muslim countries) and religion is used as an excuse in those Muslim countries where it's still allowed. Like child marriages in Hindu societies it's far more prevalent in the rural and tribal areas where education is poor, girls are unvalued and poverty is high. The struggle to combat that is hard because many factors play into it - education, the value of women, poverty, cultural traditions that even the best laws on the books have a hard time irradicating. I guess I should add a disclaimer: stating this is not excusing it. Where it occurs, it should be combated, but you aren't going to combat a complex problem by attacking all the followers of a particular faith, many of whom are trying to end these practices much like Hindus tried to end Suti and are also trying to end child-marriages.

"What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured."

They all would be in this distressing situation if they'd have fled to more suitable environments, often the surrounding areas they're fleeing from are pretty safe, they should flee to those, if not they should be deported and those safe surrounding areas should be forced to take these people.

Of course it's ridiculous to throw together in confined quarters Sunni's, Shia's, Kurd's, Afghan's, Iraqi's and gazillions of African Tribesmen and not expect all sorts of trouble.

Because it is a complex problem there are no easy solutions. One thing I would ask you: what would be bad enough to cause you to take all of your savings, pay human smugglers to get you on a boat, knowing you have a good chance of not surviving the passage and drowning and knowing you have no way of knowing how it will end? What would cause you to risk death?

It also doesn't help that many of these men will **** anything that moves, be it another man, a woman, a child or a four-legged animal.

I think that is largely a myth used to demonize. It's exactly what they used to say about black men in America.

She was only 9. That's pedophila in any period.

So there we have it, Coyote fully defending the pedophile prophet.

From one of the articles I listed:

There are really only three reasons to insist — as so many do — that Aisha was only 9 years old when Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) married her: Either you are such a crazy Islamophile that you are willing to go to your grave insisting Muhammad could do whatever he wanted, or you are such a crazy Islamophobe that you want to insist he did, or you are such a weirdly religious sex-crazed pervert that you hope accusing him makes it OK for you to do it too.


There is absolutely no other reason to either make or repeat that disgusting claim. Aisha was married in 622 C.E., and although her exact birthday is unknown, Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorded that it happened before Islam was revealed in 610. The earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Abu Muhammad ‘Abd al-Malik bin Hisham’s recension of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah — The Life of the Messenger of God records that Aisha accepted Islam shortly after it was revealed — 12 years before her marriage — and there is no way she could have done so as an infant or toddler.


Furthermore, it is a matter of incontrovertible historical record that Aisha was involved in the Battles of Badr in 624 and Uhud in 625, in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 allowed.


Finally, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, dead for more than 700 years, recorded in the biographical section of Miskat al-Masabih that Asma, her elder sister of 10 years, died at the age of 100, 72 years after Aisha’s wedding. This makes Aisha’s age at the time of her marriage at least 14, and at the time of her marriage’s consummation almost 20. ​

Your article is wrong. They've been trying to rewrite history to cover up for old Muhammed. I've argued with Muslims that freely admit Aisha was only 9, and they've defended it.

Aisha herself is the one that said she was married to him at SIX, and he consummated the marriage when she was 9. Spin it all you want.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” [3]

 

[Coyote]

Better thier kids than ours...

No kids are worth the price. You can't sell any kids to abuse. EVER.

 

[Coyote]

I have been accused of defending child abuse and rape here Lucy. From your pets here.

"It seems that some amoebas with diseased minds think that certain people are defending child abuse, isn't that correct Coyote?"

Yes, that is correct.

For the record, I've never seen you defend child abuse nor do I believe you would. I know you are a mother, and I know what that means to you. I would never imagine you ever defending child abuse.

What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured.

The situation of you being accused of defending child abuse, it's possibly in the abstract sense. What I mean those who defend Islam to a certain extent are ALL going to be accused of the same thing, this is because Mohammed was a paedophile and in Islamic society sex with pre-pubescent children is tolerated and for the reason that their Perfect Being ie. Mohammed was a paedophile himself.

There was nothing abstract about it to me. But even the claim that Mohammed was a pedo is open to challenge. Mohammed lived in an era where girls were married early - by 12 even. The accounts of Aisha's age are very debatable and depend on what hadith you take it from - all of which were written after Mohammed's death. If Mohammed was a pedo, then one would think all his wives would have been quite young.

The truth about Muhammad and Aisha | Myriam François-Cerrah
Rejecting the Myth of Sanctioned Child Marriage in Islam
Age of Aisha (ra) at time of marriage

Smearing Mohammed as a pedo is a modern invention and not well supported by historical analysis. There is no evidence that he had traffic with children or anything out of the norm of the society at the time. That being said - there is some legitimacy in the claim that some Muslims use that as a justification for marrying children. Forced marriages and child marriages are still prevalent in certain Muslim-majority countries (as well as in non-Muslim countries) and religion is used as an excuse in those Muslim countries where it's still allowed. Like child marriages in Hindu societies it's far more prevalent in the rural and tribal areas where education is poor, girls are unvalued and poverty is high. The struggle to combat that is hard because many factors play into it - education, the value of women, poverty, cultural traditions that even the best laws on the books have a hard time irradicating. I guess I should add a disclaimer: stating this is not excusing it. Where it occurs, it should be combated, but you aren't going to combat a complex problem by attacking all the followers of a particular faith, many of whom are trying to end these practices much like Hindus tried to end Suti and are also trying to end child-marriages.

"What's going on in Nauru is way wrong. What's going on in other overcrowded refugee centers is way wrong. Rather than blaming religions (these centers house people from all religions and cultural backgrounds including those with ethnic/religious/cultural clashes). Perhaps what we should be focusing on is bringing this to light and finding a human solution so this doesn't occur. These are real people being injured."

They all would be in this distressing situation if they'd have fled to more suitable environments, often the surrounding areas they're fleeing from are pretty safe, they should flee to those, if not they should be deported and those safe surrounding areas should be forced to take these people.

Of course it's ridiculous to throw together in confined quarters Sunni's, Shia's, Kurd's, Afghan's, Iraqi's and gazillions of African Tribesmen and not expect all sorts of trouble.

Because it is a complex problem there are no easy solutions. One thing I would ask you: what would be bad enough to cause you to take all of your savings, pay human smugglers to get you on a boat, knowing you have a good chance of not surviving the passage and drowning and knowing you have no way of knowing how it will end? What would cause you to risk death?

It also doesn't help that many of these men will **** anything that moves, be it another man, a woman, a child or a four-legged animal.

I think that is largely a myth used to demonize. It's exactly what they used to say about black men in America.

She was only 9. That's pedophila in any period.

So there we have it, Coyote fully defending the pedophile prophet.

From one of the articles I listed:

There are really only three reasons to insist — as so many do — that Aisha was only 9 years old when Muhammad, the Prophet of Islam (PBUH) married her: Either you are such a crazy Islamophile that you are willing to go to your grave insisting Muhammad could do whatever he wanted, or you are such a crazy Islamophobe that you want to insist he did, or you are such a weirdly religious sex-crazed pervert that you hope accusing him makes it OK for you to do it too.


There is absolutely no other reason to either make or repeat that disgusting claim. Aisha was married in 622 C.E., and although her exact birthday is unknown, Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari recorded that it happened before Islam was revealed in 610. The earliest surviving biography of Muhammad, Abu Muhammad ‘Abd al-Malik bin Hisham’s recension of Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah — The Life of the Messenger of God records that Aisha accepted Islam shortly after it was revealed — 12 years before her marriage — and there is no way she could have done so as an infant or toddler.


Furthermore, it is a matter of incontrovertible historical record that Aisha was involved in the Battles of Badr in 624 and Uhud in 625, in neither of which was anyone under the age of 15 allowed.


Finally, Imam Wali-ud-Din Muhammad ibn Abdullah Al-Khatib, dead for more than 700 years, recorded in the biographical section of Miskat al-Masabih that Asma, her elder sister of 10 years, died at the age of 100, 72 years after Aisha’s wedding. This makes Aisha’s age at the time of her marriage at least 14, and at the time of her marriage’s consummation almost 20. ​

Your article is wrong. They've been trying to rewrite history to cover up for old Muhammed. I've argued with Muslims that freely admit Aisha was only 9, and they've defended it.

Aisha herself is the one that said she was married to him at SIX, and he consummated the marriage when she was 9. Spin it all you want.

“It is reported from Aisha that she said: The Prophet entered into marriage with me when I was a girl of six … and at the time [of joining his household] I was a girl of nine years of age.”

“Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed [alone] for two years or so. He married Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consummated that marriage when she was nine years old.” [3]

It's more than one article I quoted. The idea that Aisha was that young is dependent on only one hadith.

 

[Vastator]

All thier kids could suffer, and die; if it keeps my kids safe from them, and thier morally bankrupt culture. My kids are more important than theirs.

 

[Vastator]

Better thier kids than ours...

No kids are worth the price. You can't sell any kids to abuse. EVER.

No one suggest selling anything. Just don't let them in. Then whatever happens to then is on someone else's conscience.

 

[Coyote]

According to this: A last resort? - Summary Guide: The facts about immigration detention in Australia | Australian Human Rights Commission the top three countries of origin for arrivals at Nauru Detention Centre are Fiji, Indonesia and Sri Lanka.

 

[Gracie]

This is a bit of a spin off from another thread - the condition of refugees and migrants in detention centers. What's been happening on Nauru has only recently come to light, but mirrors conditions in other terribly overcrowded refugee centers.

There is reason international law mandates that children not be imprisoned or detained with adults and that men and women are housed seperately. Overcrowding, insufficient resources, no known future - all of that can lead to severe problems and abuse on the most vulnerable, in this case children and women.

One article I read talked about human trafficking occuring in some of these camps, where young girls and women are "married" by UAE/Kuwaiti men looking for sex, and then dumped when they become pregnant. These camps jam migrants and refugees from dozens of nationalities and cultures and backgrounds together and too few people overseeing it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/world/australia/nauru-asylum-seeker-refugee-abuse.html

Leaked documents published Wednesday reveal extensive details about the harsh conditions faced by asylum seekers who have tried to reach Australia by boat and are being held on the remote Pacific island of Nauru.

More than 2,000 incident reports, written by detention-center staff members and published by The Guardian, describe episodes of violence, including sexual assault, and self-harm. Most of the cases involved children, the newspaper said, although children made up just 18 percent of the people in detention at the time of the reports. The files extend from May 2013 to October 2015.

While the difficult conditions in the island nation have long been known, the documentation will give new evidence to opponents of Australia’s policies toward asylum seekers.

Under those policies, migrants who try to reach Australia by boat without a valid visa are held offshore in Nauru and Papua New Guinea. Even if given refugee status, they are prevented from resettling in Australia.

The Australian authorities say such tough measures are necessary to discourage attempts to make the risky voyages by sea, which have sometimes ended in mass drownings. The number of attempted boat arrivals has declined sharply since the Labor Party government of Julia Gillard revived a program of offshore detentions in 2012, and the policy is maintained today under Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of the conservative Liberal Party.​

Since when have "tough measures" included the abuse of children???? Or rape?

Among the episodes outlined in the documents are multiple cases of people cutting themselves; security officers propositioning and harassing female detainees; and one instance of an officer putting his hand into a boy’s shorts during a car ride. According to that report, the boy’s father, who was also in the car, pulled the boy away but did not say anything to either of the two Nauruan officers present for fear of their reaction.​

Sounds like the rez. Most of them were many different tribes and nations...and enemies of each other but forced to live together anyway. Ah. The good ol USofA and their own "refugee" problem that happened in history.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a bit of a spin off from another thread - the condition of refugees and migrants in detention centers. What's been happening on Nauru has only recently come to light, but mirrors conditions in other terribly overcrowded refugee centers.

There is reason international law mandates that children not be imprisoned or detained with adults and that men and women are housed seperately. Overcrowding, insufficient resources, no known future - all of that can lead to severe problems and abuse on the most vulnerable, in this case children and women.

One article I read talked about human trafficking occuring in some of these camps, where young girls and women are "married" by UAE/Kuwaiti men looking for sex, and then dumped when they become pregnant. These camps jam migrants and refugees from dozens of nationalities and cultures and backgrounds together and too few people overseeing it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/11/world/australia/nauru-asylum-seeker-refugee-abuse.html

Leaked documents published Wednesday reveal extensive details about the harsh conditions faced by asylum seekers who have tried to reach Australia by boat and are being held on the remote Pacific island of Nauru.

More than 2,000 incident reports, written by detention-center staff members and published by The Guardian, describe episodes of violence, including sexual assault, and self-harm. Most of the cases involved children, the newspaper said, although children made up just 18 percent of the people in detention at the time of the reports. The files extend from May 2013 to October 2015.

While the difficult conditions in the island nation have long been known, the documentation will give new evidence to opponents of Australia’s policies toward asylum seekers.

Under those policies, migrants who try to reach Australia by boat without a valid visa are held offshore in Nauru and Papua New Guinea. Even if given refugee status, they are prevented from resettling in Australia.

The Australian authorities say such tough measures are necessary to discourage attempts to make the risky voyages by sea, which have sometimes ended in mass drownings. The number of attempted boat arrivals has declined sharply since the Labor Party government of Julia Gillard revived a program of offshore detentions in 2012, and the policy is maintained today under Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull of the conservative Liberal Party.​

Since when have "tough measures" included the abuse of children???? Or rape?

Among the episodes outlined in the documents are multiple cases of people cutting themselves; security officers propositioning and harassing female detainees; and one instance of an officer putting his hand into a boy’s shorts during a car ride. According to that report, the boy’s father, who was also in the car, pulled the boy away but did not say anything to either of the two Nauruan officers present for fear of their reaction.​

Has it ever occurred to you that the Islam you defend so mindlessly is the very reason there are refugees to begin with? Islam does not tolerate Christians, ergo, refugees.

Migrants are coming from a variety of areas, and the reasons they are fleeing vary from economic hardship, civil war, political unrest, persecution etc. Not sure why you feel the need to make it about Islam particularly since there is no evidence the majority of these migrants are Christians fleeing Islamic persecution.

Where do Australia’s asylum seekers come from?

The majority of the applications for asylum come from (top ten):

China
Afghanistan
India
Iran
Sri Lanka
Iraq
Pakistan
Indonesia
Fiji
Malaysia

Help me out here. I'm confused. These folks are not criminal inmates. They are special immigration detainees. So the status of the children matters. If they are UNESCORTED minors -- then they certainly should be segregated from the rest. But to remove children from parents and guardians, in a place with that much stress seems like the wrong thing to do.

That's a good point - I don't actually know if they are unescorted minors or not. Regardless though - they should not allow a situation to exist where children are brutalized - whether by guards or by other detainees. When the state incarcerates someone - or takes away their liberty, for whatever reason, they have a responsibility towards that person's well being - to at least meet minimal standards. These people aren't convicted criminals or violent offenders. Those children should not be brutalized by guards or other inmates.

The HRC issued some pretty damning reports on the conditions these children had to endure and this report issued some recommendations, which make sense for FAMILIES, so children aren't seperated from their families but are removed from these abusive situations.

The Forgotten Children: National Inquiry into Children in Immigration Detention 2014 | Medical Journal of Australia
Key recommendations of the report are:

• That all children and their families in detention in Australia and Nauru be released as soon as possible.
• That legislation be enacted so that children may only be detained for as long as is necessary for health, identity and security checks.
• That no child be sent offshore for processing unless it is clear that their human rights will be respected.

Then about the General Asylum stats you used above --- This is for ALL people who LAND in Australia and invoke asylum. My understanding is that Nauru is used for intercepted refugees before they step into Australia. The make-up of these detainees may very well be different than the numbers as a whole.

That is a good point, and I'm trying to find information on the actual demographics. The sense that I get from what I've found is a lot from Malaysia and Sri Lanka - but I don't have hard data. I'll keep looking.

Australia is providing funding for temporary shelter and care.. They should also provide some form of legal adjunct to local island police. That's a political issue. And could ruin the deal.

The Australian government is also covering up abuses - they strictly limit entry, there are no independent observers, no human rights representatives allowed. No media of course. IMO, that is a bad situation.

This problem was CREATED by western intervention in the MidEast. Some of that intervention was necessary, but most of it was not. And the entire West and the UN and G20 and all of humanitarian watchdogs failed to set aside adequate refugee capacity in the MidEast. Shouldn't be exodus from these regions in the millions.

The US has a history of intercepting Caribbean refugees, burning their leaky boats, and shipping directly back to Haiti or other places where migration exceeded capacity to absorb.

I don't entirely agree. For one - all the international focus is on the MidEast, in particular Syria, and all the refugees that civil war has created. That eclipses the much larger problem which is that we are seeing the biggest population of displaced people ever and they are coming from all over.

Worldwide displacement hits all-time high as war and persecution increase

Returning them safely back, as long as the return doesn't put them in danger seems to me to be the best option - but, there are legitimate asylum seekers for whom return could well mean death. There needs to be a process to expedite this.

Clearly what's happening is that Australia's "contract" for this "service" from the people of Nauru is now most likely the largest source of INCOME for that microscopic island. So -- a lot of the "cover-up" is Nauru govt imposing secrecy on the operation. Read where they hiked the "reporter fee" from $200 to $8,800 and made it non-refundable if the application is refused. I'm sure the Australians are somewhat embarrassed by this 3rd rate operation themselves.

Won't KNOW what the demographics of this detention center is until someone FINDS IT.. There are apparently similar operations at Papua and Christmas Island. So all this noise about mooooslims is jumping the gun. I SUSPECT a high percentage ARE from the war areas tho..

And Australia has always been "discerning" about immigration. Because they have limited livable space and natural resources. For decades, it was hard to get in unless you had skills and talents that ENHANCE the country. They were offering bounties at one time for scientists, teachers, researchers.

And what do ya expect? Their FOUNDERS were Brit criminals DROPPED on that island to starve to death. It STARTED the modern age as a penal colony.. (and so did Georgia for that matter. )