Evolution Starts with Lucy

[progressive hunter]

Given the fossil record, if you think that evolution is religion, then you would have to say that it is written in stone.

the fossil record is a joke,,

the rocks age is determined by the age of the fossils and the fossils age is determined by the age of the rocks,,

give me a ******* break,,

 

[scruffy]

Actually we do;

NASA Astrobiology

New Findings of Early Life on Earth Date Back 3.77 Billion Years

astrobiology.nasa.gov

That's what I keep telling these clowns.

Iron catalyst. I went through all the trouble of laying out the evidence for them. Even named and detailed the chemical reactions.

The religious types are thick, though. Can't stick their heads up out of the dogma. Can't even read the Bible without inserting stuff that isn't there.

Oh well. As long as they don't start burning my kids at the stake I just laugh at em. I try to help them but I'm chuckling while I do it.

 

[scruffy]

Whatever happened God dunnit!! End of story.

Greg

The arrogance of these religionists is astounding. They think they have God all figured out.

 

[fncceo]

No shits given about some old bag-o-bones.

FILF

 

[gtopa1]

The arrogance of these religionists is astounding. They think they have God all figured out.

I think you mischaracterise them but I'm RC myself and I BELIEVE in whatever God did. lol. As for the Science? I'm a Popperian; I separate Sci and Relig. In Science you can never KNOW; you know how Popper breaks.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

The arrogance of these religionists is astounding. They think they have God all figured out.

Circling back to this; I think they are MOSTLY reacting to Science amateurs getting out of their lane. POPULAR Scientists were just as adamant as today that they had it all worked out when i was at Uni in the 70s. Serious scientists just shut up and focused on their research and papers and stuff. Back then was when the Climate alarmism was born NOT in the Science faculties but in the Enviro-waco Faculties; the ones that gave politicians of a certain persuasion what they wanted and so received FUNDING. I saw it happen; I WAS THERE!!! Scientists working on NMR were hobbled while "The School of Environmental Science" became dominant. They were nuttos and LIARS!!

Just sayin'!!

I am HERE!!! Conjectures and Refutations

Greg

 

[scruffy]

the fossil record is a joke,,

the rocks age is determined by the age of the fossils and the fossils age is determined by the age of the rocks,,

give me a ******* break,,

See post #16.

Biological evolution is supported by 18 converging lines of scientific evidence, with several million data points.

Fossils can be analyzed with new technology that lets us sequence the DNA "in situ" without removing it from the rock.

It's not the age that matters, it's what we see in the DNA. Evolution is a continuous process, the combinatorics never stop. What we are looking for is the "catastrophes" (Google Rene Thom, there's only 7 of them in 3 dimensions).

Catastrophes are what used to be called "leaps" in evolution - also referred to by various other monikers like "saltatory" and so on. Our understanding of these processes comes mainly from nonequilibrium thermodynamics (for example, Google the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction, which received a Nobel prize in the 70's). However catastrophes are also relevant in many other areas of science, including lately neuroscience and the "critical brain" theory.

By comparing two fossils we can sometimes "infer" the catastrophe that created an advanced life form. This is complex science, data analysts spend lifetimes poring over the evidence, and it's one of the areas where AI and machine learning has been enormously helpful.

This process of "catastrophic recombination" manifests in our brains as memory. Just last week we discovered how RNA is involved in memory traces in the nucleus accumbens of human beings. And in this one week, scientists at MIT have developed an animal model to study it. So far it appears to work almost exactly like the immune system. If you think of our immune system "figuring out" which antibody it has to use to fight off an infection, this is how our brains "figure out" which RNA it has to use to represent a memory. Apparently this is what sleep is for - the temporary neural traces get converted to permanent RNA memories during sleep, and in other quiet moments when the brain is idling.

Biophysics is what tells us which protein shapes are needed to accomplish geometric catastrophes, and which catastrophes then affect the transcription processes downstream. Ultimately it's all a result of combinatorial evolution. Which in turn is made possible by the ability to "count" discrete quanta in continuous spacetime. Life is built in to the fundamental physical structure of the universe. In a way one could say the entire universe is "alive" this way.

None of this knowledge would have been possible without the basic understanding that life evolves.

 

[gtopa1]

See post #16.

Biological evolution is supported by 18 converging lines of scientific evidence, with several million data points.

Fossils can be analyzed with new technology that lets us sequence the DNA "in situ" without removing it from the rock.

It's not the age that matters, it's what we see in the DNA. Evolution is a continuous process, the combinatorics never stop. What we are looking for is the "catastrophes" (Google Rene Thom, there's only 7 of them in 3 dimensions).

Catastrophes are what used to be called "leaps" in evolution - also referred to by various other monikers like "saltatory" and so on. Our understanding of these processes comes mainly from nonequilibrium thermodynamics (for example, Google the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction, which received a Nobel prize in the 70's). However catastrophes are also relevant in many other areas of science, including lately neuroscience and the "critical brain" theory.

By comparing two fossils we can sometimes "infer" the catastrophe that created an advanced life form. This is complex science, data analysts spend lifetimes poring over the evidence, and it's one of the areas where AI and machine learning has been enormously helpful.

This process of "catastrophic recombination" manifests in our brains as memory. Just last week we discovered how RNA is involved in memory traces in the nucleus accumbens of human beings. And in this one week, scientists at MIT have developed an animal model to study it. So far it appears to work almost exactly like the immune system. If you think of our immune system "figuring out" which antibody it has to use to fight off an infection, this is how our brains "figure out" which RNA it has to use to represent a memory. Apparently this is what sleep is for - the temporary neural traces get converted to permanent RNA memories during sleep, and in other quiet moments when the brain is idling.

Biophysics is what tells us which protein shapes are needed to accomplish geometric catastrophes, and which catastrophes then affect the transcription processes downstream. Ultimately it's all a result of combinatorial evolution. Which in turn is made possible by the ability to "count" discrete quanta in continuous spacetime. Life is built in to the fundamental physical structure of the universe. In a way one could say the entire universe is "alive" this way.

None of this knowledge would have been possible without the basic understanding that life evolves.

So a living Universe came from...nothing??

Greg

 

[scruffy]

I think you mischaracterise them but I'm RC myself and I BELIEVE in whatever God did. lol. As for the Science? I'm a Popperian; I separate Sci and Relig. In Science you can never KNOW; you know how Popper breaks.

Greg

I believe in a God of the universe too. I suppose you could say I'm a Deist, I tend to de-emphasize dogma.

Lately I've been studying Bayesian inference, which is a "subjective" form of probability theory that tries to quantify belief.

Our brains are amazing at perceiving relationships between the things we see, and assigning structure to those relationships. So good in fact, that sometimes we come to believe in structure that isn't there. (As you say, the example of your climate scientists).

The basic Bayesian model has been expanded greatly in the last few decades, for example Judea Pearl's "do calculus", which has become a must-know for machine learning. Atop this hierarchy is the "judgement call", which often is nothing more than a SWAG.

I'm comfortable with the idea that my belief in a God is a judgement call. Yes I could conceive of ways in which the amazing structure of the universe could happen randomly, but the preponderance of the evidence suggests the order is far from random, it's too perfect, too many things fit together "just enough" and "in the right way". I just leave it at that, it's not necessary for me to believe anything more than that.

 

[gtopa1]

I believe in a God of the universe too. I suppose you could say I'm a Deist, I tend to de-emphasize dogma.

Lately I've been studying Bayesian inference, which is a "subjective" form of probability theory that tries to quantify belief.

Our brains are amazing at perceiving relationships between the things we see, and assigning structure to those relationships. So good in fact, that sometimes we come to believe in structure that isn't there. (As you say, the example of your climate scientists).

The basic Bayesian model has been expanded greatly in the last few decades, for example Judea Pearl's "do calculus", which has become a must-know for machine learning. Atop this hierarchy is the "judgement call", which often is nothing more than a SWAG.

I'm comfortable with the idea that my belief in a God is a judgement call. Yes I could conceive of ways in which the amazing structure of the universe could happen randomly, but the preponderance of the evidence suggests the order is far from random, it's too perfect, too many things fit together "just enough" and "in the right way". I just leave it at that, it's not necessary for me to believe anything more than that.

God knows!! (and I mean that as an opt out of me having to continue grappling with such questions. lol ) Of course I think it was Augustus who is centre to the issue; one would empty the ocean with a clam shell before UNDERSTANDING the Nature of God. I just put Him in the "Friend" category and leave it at that. I recall being introduced to "String Theory" and was told that it was fiction but explained so much. Science in a nutshell but understanding that makes Science even MORE amazing imo. The creativity is astounding.

Greg

 

[ReinyDays]

Actually we do;

NASA Astrobiology

New Findings of Early Life on Earth Date Back 3.77 Billion Years

astrobiology.nasa.gov

How did the first cells form on Earth? Scientists think they finally figured it out

About 4 billion years ago, Earth began to show signs of the conditions that allowed the first cells to take hold and populate the planet.

www.earth.com

Those are fossils ... made of silicoaluminate ... we have no living organisms from then ... no DNA to examine ...

Whereas blue-green algae is everyplace ...

 

[progressive hunter]

See post #16.

Biological evolution is supported by 18 converging lines of scientific evidence, with several million data points.

Fossils can be analyzed with new technology that lets us sequence the DNA "in situ" without removing it from the rock.

It's not the age that matters, it's what we see in the DNA. Evolution is a continuous process, the combinatorics never stop. What we are looking for is the "catastrophes" (Google Rene Thom, there's only 7 of them in 3 dimensions).

Catastrophes are what used to be called "leaps" in evolution - also referred to by various other monikers like "saltatory" and so on. Our understanding of these processes comes mainly from nonequilibrium thermodynamics (for example, Google the Belousov-Zhabotinsky reaction, which received a Nobel prize in the 70's). However catastrophes are also relevant in many other areas of science, including lately neuroscience and the "critical brain" theory.

By comparing two fossils we can sometimes "infer" the catastrophe that created an advanced life form. This is complex science, data analysts spend lifetimes poring over the evidence, and it's one of the areas where AI and machine learning has been enormously helpful.

This process of "catastrophic recombination" manifests in our brains as memory. Just last week we discovered how RNA is involved in memory traces in the nucleus accumbens of human beings. And in this one week, scientists at MIT have developed an animal model to study it. So far it appears to work almost exactly like the immune system. If you think of our immune system "figuring out" which antibody it has to use to fight off an infection, this is how our brains "figure out" which RNA it has to use to represent a memory. Apparently this is what sleep is for - the temporary neural traces get converted to permanent RNA memories during sleep, and in other quiet moments when the brain is idling.

Biophysics is what tells us which protein shapes are needed to accomplish geometric catastrophes, and which catastrophes then affect the transcription processes downstream. Ultimately it's all a result of combinatorial evolution. Which in turn is made possible by the ability to "count" discrete quanta in continuous spacetime. Life is built in to the fundamental physical structure of the universe. In a way one could say the entire universe is "alive" this way.

None of this knowledge would have been possible without the basic understanding that life evolves.

hey I have no problem you religious nuts believe what you want,,

just dont shit on my plate and tell me its meatloaf,,

 

[ReinyDays]

hey I have no problem you religious nuts believe what you want,,

just dont shit on my plate and tell me its meatloaf,,

You don't believe in "inherited traits" ... that blue-eyed folk produce blue-eyed children? ... BTW, that's sausage on your plate ... no, you don't want to know how it's made ...

Have you ever considered the Christian Lifestyle? ... everything was created by God and all you have to think about is following God's rules ... go to some neighborhood church and speak with the people there ... any church will do ... you won't have to study any science at all ... just God's rules ...

Start with Matthew chapters 5 through 7 ...

 

[progressive hunter]

You don't believe in "inherited traits" ... that blue-eyed folk produce blue-eyed children? ... BTW, that's sausage on your plate ... no, you don't want to know how it's made ...

Have you ever considered the Christian Lifestyle? ... everything was created by God and all you have to think about is following God's rules ... go to some neighborhood church and speak with the people there ... any church will do ... you won't have to study any science at all ... just God's rules ...

Start with Matthew chapters 5 through 7 ...

thats breeding not evolution,,

 

[ReinyDays]

thats breeding not evolution,,

Matthew chapters 5 through 7 ... do you know the difference between an organic acid group and Meatloaf ...

Surprise ... (prolly NSFW) ...

 

[progressive hunter]

Matthew chapters 5 through 7 ... do you know the difference between an organic acid group and Meatloaf ...

Surprise ... (prolly NSFW) ...

depending on who cooked it about 2 hours,,

 

[Cougarbear]

Always the same bullshit arguments from the ignorant.

No son, when NASA and the Chinese discover new bacteria on their space raft they call them new species.

Because that's exactly what they are.

We've discovered half a dozen of them already.

Face it, the earth is not flat and it's not the center of the universe

Dude! A newly discovered bacteria from space has nothing to do with evolution. It’s a bacteria that changed from another bacteria. But is still a bacteria and therefore the same species. You don’t have a clue what you are talking about.

 

[Cougarbear]

Apparently you have no idea at all of what constitutes a new species. Perhaps a high school biology class is in order.

Perhaps you need to start school for the first time. All you have is another form of the same species, bacteria.

 

[alang1216]

Actually, there was one that I know of. Because of the great debate between catastrophism and uniformitarianism the idea of the Bretz floods were rejected outright in spite of the evidence Bretz presented. However, when some of the leading lights in geology of that period actually put their feet on the ground and reviewed the evidence there, they reversed their rejection of those floods, sent a telegram to Bretz stating that "We are all catastrophists now". But the idea of geology based on a series of catastrophes was and is rejected. As Dr. Alan of Portland State University state, geology is uniformitarian, punctuated by catastrophes. Ice ages, floods, volcanic eruptions, and impacts, just to name a few.

Not a great example. Brett proposed a theory but it was not accepted until more evidence was found. Continental drift was similar.

 

[alang1216]

evolution is religion,,

It is only such to you because you don't understand it. Like a kid who believes in magic because he doesn't know how the magician does a trick.