Zone1 Evidence of the Hebrew Exodus

[Votto]

The Exodus seems to have occurred 1400 BC or earlier than the commonly held belief of 1200 BC based on this archeological discovery.

 

[toobfreak]

The Exodus seems to have occurred 1400 BC or earlier than the commonly held belief of 1200 BC based on this archeological discovery.

Actually, that seems to fit pretty well the general consensus by many that Genesis was written around 1600 BC.

 

[LuckyDuck01!]

Strangely, the Pharaohs scribes kept pretty good records, yet no mention of a Pharaoh and his army being drowned chasing fleeing Hebrews.
So, take the claim in the bible of that story for what it is, a fanciful tale.

 

[Votto]

Strangely, the Pharaohs scribes kept pretty good records, yet no mention of a Pharaoh and his army being drowned chasing fleeing Hebrews.
So, take the claim in the bible of that story for what it is, a fanciful tale.

That is not strange at all

The Egyptians wrote NOTHING that would caste them in a bad light historically. For example, I remember hearing about a battle between Egypt and Assyria in which both nations wrote about the same battle. Although the Assyrians routed the Egyptians, the Egyptians wrote the account in a light as though they had won, which they did not.

They also tried to cancel a Pharoah from the annals of history because he attempted to do away with their gods and implement monotheism. They had successfully destroyed all record of him, except in one place where they later put the puzzle together as to what had happened.

In fact, many cultures were like this, which makes the Bible different as they wrote the good, the bad, and the ugly about their own history and culture, giving it more veracity than the others.

 

[Votto]

Actually, that seems to fit pretty well the general consensus by many that Genesis was written around 1600 BC.

I highly recommend this movie which came to the same conclusions, that is, evidence suggests that the Exodus occurred well before historians think it actually happened.

There is evidence, but it is ignored due to the fact it falls in the wrong time in history, according to archeologists.

 

[Votto]

 

[hadit]

Strangely, the Pharaohs scribes kept pretty good records, yet no mention of a Pharaoh and his army being drowned chasing fleeing Hebrews.
So, take the claim in the bible of that story for what it is, a fanciful tale.

The Egyptians were famous for not recording losses and embarrassments. Seeing their gods systematically destroyed and their army wiped out without causing the enemy any casualties would be an enormous embarrassment.

 

[Cougarbear]

Strangely, the Pharaohs scribes kept pretty good records, yet no mention of a Pharaoh and his army being drowned chasing fleeing Hebrews.
So, take the claim in the bible of that story for what it is, a fanciful tale.

But there is evidence in the Red Sea of chariots submerged there. What sayest you on that?

 

[Quantrill]

I haven't watched any of the videos posted here. But it is an interesting topic, as archaeology is interesting. I have a book which I have had for years and it discusses this very topic of historical evidence of the Hebrews in Egypt. And I would like to give some quotes from it.

I don't do this to try and prove the Bible to anyone. I do it because it is interesting and speaks to a subject that is important to me. I don't need any evidence for the Hebrews being in Egypt. I know they were because the Bible says so.

The book I will give some quotes from is (The Bible As History, Werner Keller, William Morrow And Company, Inc. 1980) Keller was a German journalist. And the Germans have been some of the greatest antagonists against the Bible, in their higher and lower criticisms'. And he certainly had been affected by them. And some of what he says about the Bible is incorrect. But he appears to me as one who is truthful to what archaeology has discovered.

I will do this in several posts as I don't like lengthy posts. These first quotes are found in the Introduction.

"As a journalist I have been for many years exclusively concerned with the results of modern science and research. In 1950 in the course of my ordinary routine work I came across the reports of the French archaeologists Professors Parrot and Schaeffer on their excavations at Mari and Ugarit. Cuneiform tablets discovered at Mari on the Euphrates were found to contain Biblical names. As a result narratives of the patriarchs which had been for a long time regarded as merely pious tales were unexpectedly transferred into the realm of history." p. ( 21)

"I therefore ransacked German and foreign literature for a comprehensive and intelligible summary of the results of previous research. I found none for there was none to find. So I went to the sources myself in the libraries of many lands--aided in this bit of real detective work by my wife's enthusiasm--and collected all the hitherto scientifically established results of investigations which were to be found in the learned works of Biblical archaeologists. The deeper I went into the matter the more exciting it became. p. (21)

"In view of the overwhelming mass of authentic and well-attested evidence now available, as I thought of the sceptical criticism which from the eighteenth century onwards would fain have demolished the Bible altogether, there kept hammering on my brain this one sentence: "The Bible is right after all."

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

I forgot to give the page number of my last quote in post #(9). It is p. (24)

Here are some more quotes.

"On the debit side, there was not the slightest trace of Israel's sojourn in Egypt apart from the Bible itself. Historians and professors of theology alike spoke of the 'Legend of Joseph'. Egypt was just the kind of country from which one might hope for and even expect contemporary documentation about the events recorded in the Bible. At any rate this ought to be true as far as Joseph was concerned, for he was Pharaoh's grand vizier and therefore a most powerful man in Egyptian eyes," p. (98)

"No country in the Ancient East has handed down its history so faithfully as Egypt. Right back to about 3000 B.C. we can trace the names of the Pharaohs practically without a break. We know the succession of dynasties in the Old, Middle and New Kingdoms. No other people have recorded so meticulously their important events, the activities of their rulers, their campaigns, their erection of temples and palaces, as well as their literature and poetry." p. (98)

"But this time Egypt gave the scholars no answer. As if it were not enough that they found nothing about Joseph, they discovered neither documents nor monuments out of this whole period. The records which showed hardly a break for centuries suddenly stopped about 1730 B.C. From there on for a long time impenetrable darkness lay over Egypt. Not before 1580 B.C. did contemporary evidence appear once again. How could this absence of any information whatever over so long a period be explained, especially from such a highly developed people and civilization?:" p. (98-99)

Quantrill

 

[Cougarbear]

I forgot to give the page number of my last quote in post #(9). It is p. (24)

Here are some more quotes.

"On the debit side, there was not the slightest trace of Israel's sojourn in Egypt apart from the Bible itself. Historians and professors of theology alike spoke of the 'Legend of Joseph'. Egypt was just the kind of country from which one might hope for and even expect contemporary documentation about the events recorded in the Bible. At any rate this ought to be true as far as Joseph was concerned, for he was Pharaoh's grand vizier and therefore a most powerful man in Egyptian eyes," p. (98)

"No country in the Ancient East has handed down its history so faithfully as Egypt. Right back to about 3000 B.C. we can trace the names of the Pharaohs practically without a break. We know the succession of dynasties in the Old, Middle and New Kingdoms. No other people have recorded so meticulously their important events, the activities of their rulers, their campaigns, their erection of temples and palaces, as well as their literature and poetry." p. (98)

"But this time Egypt gave the scholars no answer. As if it were not enough that they found nothing about Joseph, they discovered neither documents nor monuments out of this whole period. The records which showed hardly a break for centuries suddenly stopped about 1730 B.C. From there on for a long time impenetrable darkness lay over Egypt. Not before 1580 B.C. did contemporary evidence appear once again. How could this absence of any information whatever over so long a period be explained, especially from such a highly developed people and civilization?:" p. (98-99)

Quantrill

I like the idea that was presented in the movie, The Ten Commandments, when the Pharaoh said that the name of Moses and everything to do with him was to be stricken from all records. And, of course, Ramses the Second would have done likewise when he sent him packing and then his army drowned. Why would he keep those records? But, Israel did, didn't they. It's in the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament. There are some evidences and more is coming as more is unearth. The idea that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence is illogical and really pigheaded. There is so much we haven't even started to uncover that will show more and more. The LiDar of possible Sodom and Gomorrah for instance. Top Ten Discoveries Related to Moses and the Exodus

 

[ding]

I like the idea that was presented in the movie, The Ten Commandments, when the Pharaoh said that the name of Moses and everything to do with him was to be stricken from all records. And, of course, Ramses the Second would have done likewise when he sent him packing and then his army drowned. Why would he keep those records? But, Israel did, didn't they. It's in the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament. There are some evidences and more is coming as more is unearth. The idea that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence is illogical and really pigheaded. There is so much we haven't even started to uncover that will show more and more. The LiDar of possible Sodom and Gomorrah for instance. Top Ten Discoveries Related to Moses and the Exodus

For the sake of argument. Let's say there was an exodus from Egypt but that it didn't happen exactly as described. Let's say they used that historical event to craft a narrative to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice and Israel's special relationship with God.

Would that shake the foundation of your beliefs?

 

[Quantrill]

For the sake of argument. Let's say there was an exodus from Egypt but that it didn't happen exactly as described. Let's say they used that historical event to craft a narrative to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice and Israel's special relationship with God.

Would that shake the foundation of your beliefs?

That would mean the Bible would not be the Word of God, but the word of man.

Which would mean you write or craft your own bible.

Which would mean the Bible has no authority.

I guess your foundation is shaken that the Bible is true and those things happened exactly as the Bible describes.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

continued from post #(10)

These are more quotes from (The Bible As History, Werner Keller, William Morrow And Company, Inc. 1980) These come from Chapter 8, called Joseph In Egypt. As did those in post #(10). I would recommend this book to any interested in Biblical archaeology.

The point Keller has made is that not only is there nothing of Joseph mentioned in the records of Egypt, but of a certain time period, between 1730 and 1580 B.C., there is an absence of any records. Which is strange for Egypt.

He says, "Something incredible and frightful befell the Nile country about 1730 B.C." p.(99) And he attributes this to the Hyksos invasion. "The rule of the victors began with a bloodbath. The Hyksos, Semitic tribes from Canaan and Syria knew no pity. With the fateful year 1730 B.C. the thirteen hundred year rule of the dynasties came to an abrupt end. The Middle Kingdom of the Pharaohs was shattered under the onslaught of these Asian peoples, the 'rulers of foreign lands'. That is the meaning of the name Hyksos." p.(99)

Keller then quotes Egyptian historian Manetho. "We had a king called Tutimaeus. In his reign, it happened. I do not know why God was displeased with us. Unexpectedly from the regions of the East, came men of unknown race. Confident of victory they marched against our land. By force they took it, easily, without a single battle. Having overpowered our rulers they burned our cities without compassion, and destroyed the temples of the gods. All the natives were treated with great cruelty for they slew some and carried off the wives and children of others into slavery." p. (99)

And it is this time period, 1730 to 1580 B.C. that Keller attributes the Biblical story of Joseph. He says, "The Biblical story of Joseph and the sojourn of the children of Israel in Egypt probably come into this period of turbulent conditions on the Nile under the rule of the foreign Hyksos. It is therefore not surprising that no contemporary Egyptian information has come down to us." p. (100)

On my part, I can see the hand of God in this. Because it keeps the only written record of Israel's deliverance out of Egypt, which was done through spectacular miraculous judgements from God, to be found is in the Bible. Which keeps acceptance of it an act of faith.

Quantrill

 

[ding]

That would mean the Bible would not be the Word of God, but the word of man.

Which would mean you write or craft your own bible.

Which would mean the Bible has no authority.

I guess your foundation is shaken that the Bible is true and those things happened exactly as the Bible describes.

Quantrill

That's not what that means. Are you forgetting about Jesus?

The Bible and Jesus are both considered the "Word of God" in Christianity, but in different ways: Jesus is the living Word (Logos), the ultimate embodiment and expression of God, while the Bible is the written Word, God's inspired message and revelation to humanity, pointing to Jesus. The Bible serves as an instruction manual for understanding God's will, with Jesus as the perfect example and fulfillment of that will.

 

[Cougarbear]

For the sake of argument. Let's say there was an exodus from Egypt but that it didn't happen exactly as described. Let's say they used that historical event to craft a narrative to teach lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice and Israel's special relationship with God.

Would that shake the foundation of your beliefs?

As long as it matches up with the LORD’s words about Moses no problem. The abridgment by Moses has little details about the complete history of the time from Adam down to Israel entering into the Promised Land. See, my belief is a combination of my faith and knowledge the Holy Ghost has given me about the LORD Jesus Christ. At the same time testifies Jesus has a Father God in heaven whom I pray to in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

[TNHarley]

Lol if an Egyptian army saw a sea part, and then there army get swallowed up by it, they would have recorded that.

 

[ding]

As long as it matches up with the LORD’s words about Moses no problem. The abridgment by Moses has little details about the complete history of the time from Adam down to Israel entering into the Promised Land. See, my belief is a combination of my faith and knowledge the Holy Ghost has given me about the LORD Jesus Christ. At the same time testifies Jesus has a Father God in heaven whom I pray to in the name of Jesus Christ.

I think this guy is pretty credible.

 

[ding]

Lol if an Egyptian army saw a sea part, and then there army get swallowed up by it, they would have recorded that.

Actually they understated their defeats. But to your point it didn't happen as told but there was an Exodus of some kind and that was about that time that they transitioned in earnest to widespread monotheistic beliefs. The embellishments were made to make the account more memorable and easy to pass down orally and taught lessons about the covenant, obedience, justice and Israel's special relationship with God.

It's funny that you hate this explanation when in reality I am agreeing with you that it didn't happen as told.

 

[ding]

Good old, TNHarley ...tuck and run ...tuck an run.