Evidence for God?

[mhansen2]

This is a never ending argument, so why bother?

 

[MarkDuffy]

I believe in evolution, but I don't believe that life spontaneously materialized in a primordial soup and then "evolved" into every living thing that's ever existed. There is certainly a lack of archaeological evidence to support that claim.

The first life did not leave fossils. That requires physical structures that can be replaced by stone, or imprints in mud.

The process of fossilization is actually VERY rare. Most just rot.

However, for life we have found fossils for, they absolutely agree with evolution.

 

[MarkDuffy]

These types of threads attract all sorts of atheists that not only do NOT believe that a creator made us or the universe, they don't WANT there to be such a being. Hence, they have zero objectivity on the topic. They're like attorneys shilling for a certain outcome as opposed to having an open mind and looking for the truth.

We scientists tend to not believe in magic.

What we do care about is why believers have so little faith they must deny science to keep their belief.

God loves science. If you have to claim God invented science, then that works for me also.

 

[MarkDuffy]

For some time now, I've believed Man created God in his image so the priests (or their equivalent) could keep the masses in line.

And to answer the unanswerable. Our brain needs answers and if we don't have them, we make it up. Primitive man did not have science so they came up with magic as the solution.

 

[mhansen2]

Well said.

 

[K9Buck]

These types of threads attract all sorts of atheists that not only do NOT believe that a creator made us or the universe, they don't WANT there to be such a being. Hence, they have zero objectivity on the topic. They're like attorneys shilling for a certain outcome as opposed to having an open mind and looking for the truth.

We scientists tend to not believe in magic.

What we do care about is why believers have so little faith they must deny science to keep their belief.

God loves science. If you have to claim God invented science, then that works for me also.

No, you do believe in magic. After all, you believe the universe created itself.

 

[K9Buck]

I believe in evolution, but I don't believe that life spontaneously materialized in a primordial soup and then "evolved" into every living thing that's ever existed. There is certainly a lack of archaeological evidence to support that claim.

The first life did not leave fossils. That requires physical structures that can be replaced by stone, or imprints in mud.

The process of fossilization is actually VERY rare. Most just rot.

However, for life we have found fossils for, they absolutely agree with evolution.

Wrong.

 

[ScienceRocks]

except the creationist have zero evidence and have to lie about every little thing from point a to point b. Making shit up isn't how we do things in the real world.

Using the text of the bible sure as fuck doesn't fill the requirements.


Science really does have data and evidence for what it says and my friends that is all that matters.

 

[MarkDuffy]

These types of threads attract all sorts of atheists that not only do NOT believe that a creator made us or the universe, they don't WANT there to be such a being. Hence, they have zero objectivity on the topic. They're like attorneys shilling for a certain outcome as opposed to having an open mind and looking for the truth.

We scientists tend to not believe in magic.

What we do care about is why believers have so little faith they must deny science to keep their belief.

God loves science. If you have to claim God invented science, then that works for me also.

No, you do believe in magic. After all, you believe the universe created itself.

We both have origins problems. I admit mine. Do you admit yours?

God was an ET. Where did your alien God come from? Is your God not proof earth has been visited by aliens?

Think about it. You have an advanced alien God trying to explain creation to barely-not-savages. You think he will start with thermodynamics, quantum mechanics & evolution?

 

[K9Buck]

These types of threads attract all sorts of atheists that not only do NOT believe that a creator made us or the universe, they don't WANT there to be such a being. Hence, they have zero objectivity on the topic. They're like attorneys shilling for a certain outcome as opposed to having an open mind and looking for the truth.

We scientists tend to not believe in magic.

What we do care about is why believers have so little faith they must deny science to keep their belief.

God loves science. If you have to claim God invented science, then that works for me also.

No, you do believe in magic. After all, you believe the universe created itself.

We both have origins problems. I admit mine. Do you admit yours?

Science shows that the universe had a beginning. Something, or someone, "caused" the universe to happen. Nothing in this universe happens without something else causing it to happen, correct? Does this not point to something or someone that is OUTSIDE of this universe getting it all started? It's just simple logic, really.

There are other reasons as to why I believe that we have a creator, aka, "God". For most atheists, if they can't wrap their hands around something, then it can't exist. They can't think outside the box. Their thinking is very narrow. Some people briefly die, come back and share incredible stories of meeting Jesus, loved ones that past previously, etc. Of course, since it didn't happen to the atheist, he knows it never really happened. Like I said, not only do atheists NOT believe in a creator, they don't want there to be a creator.

God is and always has been. That's a mind-bending concept that is beyond our ability to comprehend, at least in this existence.

 

[mhansen2]

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. You feel there is a divine being. Fine. Others, like me, look elsewhere for answers. That also is fine. We don't have to criticize each other.

 

[MarkDuffy]

These types of threads attract all sorts of atheists that not only do NOT believe that a creator made us or the universe, they don't WANT there to be such a being. Hence, they have zero objectivity on the topic. They're like attorneys shilling for a certain outcome as opposed to having an open mind and looking for the truth.

We scientists tend to not believe in magic.

What we do care about is why believers have so little faith they must deny science to keep their belief.

God loves science. If you have to claim God invented science, then that works for me also.

No, you do believe in magic. After all, you believe the universe created itself.

We both have origins problems. I admit mine. Do you admit yours?

Science shows that the universe had a beginning.

The main current hypothesis is like that true. We call this the current universe. This is due to our current thinking that the expansion appears to be enough to continue.

There are alternatives like this ~ Oscillating Universe Theory - Universe Today

Something, or someone, "caused" the universe to happen. Nothing in this universe happens without something else causing it to happen, correct?

In general that would be a starting hypothesis. We scientists have a big problem with relying on magic as a solution. We also have a problem with singularities. Why only one God? As soon as you admit a magical God, we say who magically created God, since you all freely admit it can happen multiple times if it can happen once.

Does this not point to something or someone that is OUTSIDE of this universe getting it all started? It's just simple logic, really.

Not necessarily. You can have two universes created, one matter, the other anti-matter. That would fit current physics.

There are other reasons as to why I believe that we have a creator, aka, "God".

It is difficult to argue against singularity in cosmology, but FOR singularity in God. You all appear to not use logic.

For most atheists, if they can't wrap their hands around something, then it can't exist. They can't think outside the box. Their thinking is very narrow.

OK, now I'm laughing. One of the main things scientists do is think outside the box and prove previous hypotheses WRONG. That is what science is.

Where are religionists that try to prove God wrong?

Some people briefly die, come back and share incredible stories of meeting Jesus, loved ones that past previously, etc. Of course, since it didn't happen to the atheist, he knows it never really happened.

Correct, we do not believe those stories.

Like I said, not only do atheists NOT believe in a creator, they don't want there to be a creator.

Nonsense

God is and always has been. That's a mind-bending concept that is beyond our ability to comprehend, at least in this existence.

My response here is the same as yours. The universe has always been.

........................

What do you think made God create? Did he just wake up one morning and go "I think I will create a universe today!" How long do you think he sat there in boredom until he got the idea? Do you think he has done this multiple times? How about other earth's in this universe? One and done?

 

[MarkDuffy]

So basically, it is not that we scientists have a problem with a God. We have a problem with magic. If we allow magic, then science becomes extremely hard to defend. It has no purpose.

 

[K9Buck]

The universe had a beginning. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

Where there is a creation, there is a creator. Next you're going to tell us that Mount Rushmore made itself.

 

[Ray9]

Agnostic here. Why? Because the non-existence of a creator is as unknowable as the existence of one. The theist and the atheist both have the same problem-neither has proof. Science relies on repeatable evidence and there is no evidence that the universe came about randomly.

The universe is filled with something scientists call dark matter but it can't be detected directly. Its existence can only be extrapolated by how things we can detect act and react. The universe should be flying apart in all directions but it's not because something science can't explain is holding it together.

God? Who knows? Our senses are tethered to the Earth and Earthly things. Proof of God? Show me. Agnosticism is the only position that makes sense.

 

[Boss]

How about it? Where is the evidence for God that is better then the evidence for Evolution? I put the cards on the table and demand an answer.

The truth is there's NO evidence for God outside of the Bible and will never be any. You can't justify "faith" for a good reason to attack Evolution as that is simply retarded. Evolution is backed up with centuries of evidence and observation that proves it without the shallow of a doubt...Perfect, no, of course not.

The big bang makes more sense as it is simple and God is complex. People bitch about how it could happen without a god! Well, think about it a little harder for a moment and realize that a god would be a billion trillion times more complex then simple physical processes over billions of years. It would be like comparing a simple acid to a human being...Still think God is more likely?

Several points need to be made.

First and foremost... You are demanding physical evidence for a spiritual entity. Physical science only deals with the physical nature of the universe. It cannot evaluate anything outside of physical nature, which would include God. So you say you're putting cards on the table but that's totally worthless in a game of billiards. You need to be able to evaluate spiritual evidence to prove spiritual entities. You don't accept spiritual evidence so this is not possible. A billiard game can never be won with a Royal Flush.

Second point... It's a false equivalency to argue God vs. Evolution. I would surmise that God created Evolution. And Evolution, in all it's wondrous glory, is simply not an explanation for origin. If you have legitimate scientific proof of origin, you have a Nobel Prize waiting for you. There isn't even a prevailing accepted theory for origin. Abiogenesis has never been demonstrated and it's actually about 120 various theories, some of which contradict each other.

As for Evolution, as worthless as it is for explaining origin, it also has some serious flaws. Darwin's theories were written in 1899 and we've learned a great deal about living things since then. There are large swaths of Darwin's speculations that have been totally debunked but his devotees will never tell you that. To date, there is no evidence in geology, biology, paleontology, anthropology or any other science to prove cross-genus evolution. I'm not claiming it's not true but we should find plenty of evidence for it, if it happened.

Finally, you mentioned the Big Bang and then scoffed at the idea God could've done it. You then ask us to think harder about it and followed with some unintelligible rant about the complexity of God versus the "simplicity" of physical processes. Sorry, but I must've missed the part where you explained how a physical universe, with all it's energy and matter, was created from nothing. Again, another Nobel Prize awaits you if you can prove what happened before the Big Bang.

Allow me to broaden your mind with a thought here. How can something create itself? Simple but perplexing, isn't it? Think hard about that. To create itself, it would have to already exist, which means it didn't create itself. This is what is called a paradox. Now... apply this to physical nature. Before physical nature existed, something had to create it. From a purely practical perspective, spiritual nature explains this. In fact, it's the only logical explanation.

Okay, so I know what your first question is... what created spiritual nature? But this is where "the devil" messes with you. For the context of "creation" is a physical thing. When we say something is "created" it means that something is brought into physical presence or state of being. Spiritual things don't require physical presence or state of being, that is what defines them as spiritual. So, nothing created the Creator... it existed before space and time and all things physical.

 

[Eaglewings]

Take a look at this link and how many scientist's who believe in God..

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia

How about it? Where is the evidence for God that is better then the evidence for Evolution? I put the cards on the table and demand an answer.

The truth is there's NO evidence for God outside of the Bible and will never be any. You can't justify "faith" for a good reason to attack Evolution as that is simply retarded. Evolution is backed up with centuries of evidence and observation that proves it without the shallow of a doubt...Perfect, no, of course not.

The big bang makes more sense as it is simple and God is complex. People bitch about how it could happen without a god! Well, think about it a little harder for a moment and realize that a god would be a billion trillion times more complex then simple physical processes over billions of years. It would be like comparing a simple acid to a human being...Still think God is more likely?

Ask and the door will open ~ ( this your heart and soul who will seek and many find God)

Take a look at this link and how many scientist's who believed/believe in God..

List of Christians in science and technology - Wikipedia


.

 

[tecoyah]

Okay...now compare this to how many don't.

 

[MarkDuffy]

The universe had a beginning. To say otherwise is disingenuous.

If there was a God there, then the universe had already begun.

Where there is a creation, there is a creator. Next you're going to tell us that Mount Rushmore made itself.

Who created God? You just said God must have had a creator.

 

[MarkDuffy]

How about it? Where is the evidence for God that is better then the evidence for Evolution? I put the cards on the table and demand an answer.

The truth is there's NO evidence for God outside of the Bible and will never be any. You can't justify "faith" for a good reason to attack Evolution as that is simply retarded. Evolution is backed up with centuries of evidence and observation that proves it without the shallow of a doubt...Perfect, no, of course not.

The big bang makes more sense as it is simple and God is complex. People bitch about how it could happen without a god! Well, think about it a little harder for a moment and realize that a god would be a billion trillion times more complex then simple physical processes over billions of years. It would be like comparing a simple acid to a human being...Still think God is more likely?

Several points need to be made.

First and foremost... You are demanding physical evidence for a spiritual entity. Physical science only deals with the physical nature of the universe. It cannot evaluate anything outside of physical nature, which would include God. So you say you're putting cards on the table but that's totally worthless in a game of billiards. You need to be able to evaluate spiritual evidence to prove spiritual entities. You don't accept spiritual evidence so this is not possible. A billiard game can never be won with a Royal Flush.

Second point... It's a false equivalency to argue God vs. Evolution. I would surmise that God created Evolution. And Evolution, in all it's wondrous glory, is simply not an explanation for origin. If you have legitimate scientific proof of origin, you have a Nobel Prize waiting for you. There isn't even a prevailing accepted theory for origin. Abiogenesis has never been demonstrated and it's actually about 120 various theories, some of which contradict each other.

As for Evolution, as worthless as it is for explaining origin, it also has some serious flaws. Darwin's theories were written in 1899 and we've learned a great deal about living things since then. There are large swaths of Darwin's speculations that have been totally debunked but his devotees will never tell you that. To date, there is no evidence in geology, biology, paleontology, anthropology or any other science to prove cross-genus evolution. I'm not claiming it's not true but we should find plenty of evidence for it, if it happened.

Finally, you mentioned the Big Bang and then scoffed at the idea God could've done it. You then ask us to think harder about it and followed with some unintelligible rant about the complexity of God versus the "simplicity" of physical processes. Sorry, but I must've missed the part where you explained how a physical universe, with all it's energy and matter, was created from nothing. Again, another Nobel Prize awaits you if you can prove what happened before the Big Bang.

Allow me to broaden your mind with a thought here. How can something create itself? Simple but perplexing, isn't it? Think hard about that. To create itself, it would have to already exist, which means it didn't create itself. This is what is called a paradox. Now... apply this to physical nature. Before physical nature existed, something had to create it. From a purely practical perspective, spiritual nature explains this. In fact, it's the only logical explanation.

Okay, so I know what your first question is... what created spiritual nature? But this is where "the devil" messes with you. For the context of "creation" is a physical thing. When we say something is "created" it means that something is brought into physical presence or state of being. Spiritual things don't require physical presence or state of being, that is what defines them as spiritual. So, nothing created the Creator... it existed before space and time and all things physical.

Nice strawman argument

A spiritual being who can mess with the physical world, but the spirit gives him protection from the physical world. You creator tells us that we will become spirit or alternatively, we are also spirit.

Thus, there is no protection and you must explain the origin of God.