Everyone is dancing around the truth in the Sandra Bland arrest. What happened is obvious.

[Iceweasel]

[...]He either didn't want to breathe her smoke or knows that a flipped butt in the face can cause problems. The odd thing is he had to ask in the first place.

What he knows could happen is no justification for taking such prohibitive action. If she did flick the cigarette in his face, or blow clouds of smoke in his face, then, and only then, is he authorized to take action.

Because cops know a man they are questioning for something can kick them in the balls, does that mean they are authorized to tell him to remove his shoes? Too many cops are taking this "officer safety" routine too far. Pretty soon they will be handcuffing everyone they stop for anything and laying them face down on the street -- because they could flick a cigarette at them, spit at them, kick them in the balls, and on and on.

The response to that nonsense is action only after action, not on presumptive notion.

Cops, and anyone with any sense, absolutely do take preventative measures to avoid injury. Sometimes people are cuffed without being arrested until they have a better idea of what's going on. The moral of the story is to not act like a 4 year old brat if you get pulled over because it can go downhill from there.

 

[dannyboys]

Dear God some of you are so ******* dumb it's hilarious.
Read this very slowly so you'll understand:
All patrol cops in the country are trained to take full control of any encounter when they have doing their job. This always includes asking that anything that may be used in anyway as a weapon is removed. Cigarettes, car keys, drink containers, you name it. If the person refuses the cop has the legal right to move to the next level to ensure their security.
The only person who is then increasing the risk of a violent confrontation is the person who is being detained. Yes the person is now legally detained.
Patrol cops have to deal with the scum of the earth. NOT by a bunch of LIB pajama-boy Internet warriors like we have on this forum.
I know first hand that 9/10 traffic stops are routine and 9/10 drivers know pretty much they fucked up and they sit and nod and keep their mouths shut and sign the warning or ticket and that's the end of it. 1/10 are going to give the cop 'attitude'. Happens all the time. BUT it's the form of 'attitude' that decides what comes next.
Believe me NO cop wants ANY more hassle in their job than absolutely necessary.
Getting into a situation that means spending ******* hours back at the precinct office with a pen in your hand is the LAST thing any cop wants to fill their day. That quite frankly is why so many cops don't react when they are insulted. taunted etc. It's just not worth the hassle.
Then there is the issue of the cop's internal file. Which is in fact the most important one. If any cop in the country is spending an inordinate amount of time writing reports involving themselves and their interaction with the public a BIG red light goes of in the HR department. The cop is clearly not functioning well in their job when too many simple interactions with the public are turning into............wait for it........A POTENTIAL ******* LAWSUIT!!!!!!!
NO police department wants to see their budget for staff/equipment fly out the window settling a lawsuit. Any cop involved in any lawsuit becomes more or less a pariah in the department. If it happens twice the cop is told to ******* jump before they are pushed.
In this case the cop already knew about the driver's long long history of driving infractions before he got out of his car. He knew she was a doper and and big mouth anti-cop activist. That community is a very small one and a lot of people know a lot about their neighbors.
The negro ***** was 100% responsible for what happened during the traffic stop and the fact she offed herself in jail is of no consequence. Her ******* family wouldn't even bail her out.
I do hope one or two of you ****-wit LIB/anarchists will learn something from this post and stop putting up nonsense belonging to an eight year old. But I doubt it.

 

[Nosmo King]

Failing to follow the rules during a traffic stop is a capital offense.

Yes; but in this case she killed herself, so that's not a meaningful point.

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Failing to follow the rules during a traffic stop is a capital offense.

Yes; but in this case she killed herself, so that's not a meaningful point.

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

Did you watch the video? Who got shitty with who first?

The officer was polite and respectful until she started refusing his requests.

 

[Anathema]

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

I find fear to be much more useful than respect when dealing with most people. Even if it was a respect issue its,about respecting the badge abd the authority that comes with it rather than the individual wearing it.

She got arrested which is what she deserved. The rest was in her hands, novody else's.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

[...] I've been pulled over by the police many times in just the same way. They talk to you, ask you where it is you're going, check your info, then they issue you a warning and you're on your way.

[...]

So you get pulled over for failing to signal a lane change and the cop wants to know "where it is you're going," and you're okay with that?

I won't criticize you if you are willing to tell the cop where you're going, or where you've been, or why, or whatever intrusive assault on your privacy he chooses to impose, because you'd prefer to get a warning instead of a summons. In the proper mood I might be inclined to do the same. But wouldn't you prefer that the cop is not equipped with the power of judging whether you get a warning or a summons based on his personal disposition toward you?

Warnings in the example of minor traffic infractions are typically issued to individuals who have clean driving records -- which should be the only criterion for determining who gets a warning rather than a summons. It should not be up to the cop. Because cops are cops -- not judges. And a basic psychological principle in delegating authority, such as police authority, is recipients are likely to autonomously expand to the next higher level if not diligently supervised.

If a cop is allowed to tell a driver he pulls over for a minor traffic infraction to put his/her cigarette out, he soon will be asking where they are going, or where they've been, and with who, or whatever else might occur to him when in fact it is none of his business.

If a cop pulls you over for failing to signal a turn, unless there is some evidence of something illegal he has no right to assert his authority beyond that necessary to facilitate his immediate purpose, which is issuing a warning or a summons for the infraction he observed.

This is so because America is not a police state.

Yet.

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the **** away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

[...] I've been pulled over by the police many times in just the same way. They talk to you, ask you where it is you're going, check your info, then they issue you a warning and you're on your way.

[...]

So you get pulled over for failing to signal a lane change and the cop wants to know "where it is you're going," and you're okay with that?

I won't criticize you if you are willing to tell the cop where you're going, or where you've been, or why, or whatever intrusive assault on your privacy he chooses to impose, because you'd prefer to get a warning instead of a summons. In the proper mood I might be inclined to do the same. But wouldn't you prefer that the cop is not equipped with the power of judging whether you get a warning or a summons based on his personal disposition toward you?

Warnings in the example of minor traffic infractions are typically issued to individuals who have clean driving records -- which should be the only criterion for determining who gets a warning rather than a summons. It should not be up to the cop. Because cops are cops -- not judges. And a basic psychological principle in delegating authority, such as police authority, is recipients are likely to autonomously expand to the next higher level if not diligently supervised.

If a cop is allowed to tell a driver he pulls over for a minor traffic infraction to put his/her cigarette out, he soon will be asking where they are going, or where they've been, and with who, or whatever else might occur to him when in fact it is none of his business.

If a cop pulls you over for failing to signal a turn, unless there is some evidence of something illegal he has no right to assert his authority beyond that necessary to facilitate his immediate purpose, which is issuing a warning or a summons for the infraction he observed.

This is so because America is not a police state.

Yet.

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the **** away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

It wasn't just the fact she pissed him off, it was because she failed to comply with his request. When an officer ask you to get out of your car, you get out of your car. You are lawfully detained the moment you are stopped by the police. He asked her to extinguish her cigarette because he wanted her hands empty when she stepped out.

Using your point, if you know that you are subject to arrest for pissing off a cop, why would you piss off a cop?

 

[Oldstyle]

A better question might be...how do you go from getting a warning to getting arrested simply because you feel the need to tell the cop giving you the warning that you think he's being petty? Sign the ticket. Drive away.

 

[Nosmo King]

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

I find fear to be much more useful than respect when dealing with most people. Even if it was a respect issue its,about respecting the badge abd the authority that comes with it rather than the individual wearing it.

She got arrested which is what she deserved. The rest was in her hands, novody else's.

I can understand why you would employ fear rather than respect. You do not believe in the concept of police serving and protecting. As you are a heartless authoritarian, it makes perfect sense. All I ask is that you never participate in policing any community. Your attitude serves concentration camp internees well, but is inappropriately useless in civil society..

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I'm baffled by this concept that the police should be held to a higher standard than the rest of us.

Try this out, Hutch...go to the Registry of Motor Vehicles and treat that person behind the counter like they're something you just scraped off the bottom of your shoe and see what happens. I guarantee that whatever you brought with you to get that new license or register that new vehicle isn't going to satisfy Registry "requirements".

Anyone who deals with people in the real world regularly knows that being cordial gets you better results than being an asshole.

Look I'm not advocating people be assholes. I get it. I'm always cordial and have never had a bad experience. That's not to say that the police in any way have the right to **** me because I was a smartass. It baffles me why you would be ok with that.

It's not that I'm either OK or not OK with it, Hutch...I simply grasp that it's reality and deal with that reality in the most logical way I can. That goes for not just for your interactions with the police, by the way but for your interactions with just about everyone. That person at the Registry of Motor Vehicles that you got snippy with has no right to deny you a new license because you don't have the "required" ID's but you know as well as I do that they will do exactly that! So you have a choice...play nice with the asshole behind the counter...or have them cause inconvenience in your life.

Not really the same thing dude.

How is it not? You really think people who are police officers don't have the same reactions to stimuli as the rest of us? How exactly is that accomplished by donning a uniform and pinning a badge on it? Or do you think they should all be Robo Cops?

Training. Emotional maturity. Police are and should be trained to diffuse situations not escalate. An officer is trained not to take verbal confrontations personally. If an officer is unable to do that,then they should not be working as an officer.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

I find fear to be much more useful than respect when dealing with most people. Even if it was a respect issue its,about respecting the badge abd the authority that comes with it rather than the individual wearing it.

She got arrested which is what she deserved. The rest was in her hands, novody else's.

I can understand why you would employ fear rather than respect. You do not believe in the concept of police serving and protecting. As you are a heartless authoritarian, it makes perfect sense. All I ask is that you never participate in policing any community. Your attitude serves concentration camp internees well, but is inappropriately useless in civil society..

Officers do not deserve respect?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

[...] I've been pulled over by the police many times in just the same way. They talk to you, ask you where it is you're going, check your info, then they issue you a warning and you're on your way.

[...]

So you get pulled over for failing to signal a lane change and the cop wants to know "where it is you're going," and you're okay with that?

I won't criticize you if you are willing to tell the cop where you're going, or where you've been, or why, or whatever intrusive assault on your privacy he chooses to impose, because you'd prefer to get a warning instead of a summons. In the proper mood I might be inclined to do the same. But wouldn't you prefer that the cop is not equipped with the power of judging whether you get a warning or a summons based on his personal disposition toward you?

Warnings in the example of minor traffic infractions are typically issued to individuals who have clean driving records -- which should be the only criterion for determining who gets a warning rather than a summons. It should not be up to the cop. Because cops are cops -- not judges. And a basic psychological principle in delegating authority, such as police authority, is recipients are likely to autonomously expand to the next higher level if not diligently supervised.

If a cop is allowed to tell a driver he pulls over for a minor traffic infraction to put his/her cigarette out, he soon will be asking where they are going, or where they've been, and with who, or whatever else might occur to him when in fact it is none of his business.

If a cop pulls you over for failing to signal a turn, unless there is some evidence of something illegal he has no right to assert his authority beyond that necessary to facilitate his immediate purpose, which is issuing a warning or a summons for the infraction he observed.

This is so because America is not a police state.

Yet.

With all due respect, Mike...the police officer DOES have the discretion to decide whether you get a warning or a ticket. You've broken a law and that police officer is the on site representative of our legal system who you are dealing with. You can do everything in your power to make that officer decide in your favor and give you a warning...or you can bust his chops and probably get a ticket or worse. My question for you is a simple one...why would you antagonize the person who has that discretion? It's just plain stupid.

See, here's the rub. There is no legal standard that allows for attitude. Either ticket me or walk the **** away. That's the two choices available if the officer has no other probable cause. He certainly shouldn't continue to escalate the situation until he feels he has one.

One what?

Reason to arrest someone. Probable cause.
How do you go from a warning or a citation to an arrest simply because the subject pissed you off?

I guess she shouldnt have given him a reason.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

He was out of line, but she clearly exacerbated the situation.

I'd say they both did some exacerbating. But the cop was in control of the situation and all he needed to do was write the summons and say goodbye. It was up to him but he chose to take it to the limit.

With all due respect, Mike..."she" is the one in charge of the situation. If she puts out her cigarette and signs the warning, that police officer tells her to have a nice day, gets back in his cruiser and leaves. She doesn't do that though...does she? She makes a decision that she doesn't like what the police officer has done stopping her for changing lanes without signalling and she's going to give him a piece of her mind. Now do I think the police officer over reacted to her? Yes, I do. He shouldn't have let her attitude get under his skin. At that point the old saying "it takes two to tango" applies to what is happening. She won't back down and neither will he. She resists arrest and she goes to jail. He "wins" his contest with her and then gets roasted by the media when she subsequently commits suicide in jail. The person who ultimately took it to the limit was her.

The officer is the authority and in total control.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

Rdean, she failed to follow the rules and she got what she deserved. Follow the rules and this sort of stuff doesn't happen

I'm 4 years old and have never gotten a movie g violation or been arrested. Why the cast majority of Americans can't say the same thing suggests to me that the biggest problem in thus country is likely it's citizens.

She didn't use a turn signal so she deserved to die. Never heard that "rule" applied to a white person, have you?

God but you're clueless! She took her own life. She went to jail because she decided to give a police officer attitude over a warning that she was being issued. Was it a ticky tack traffic stop? Getting pulled over for not signalling a lane change? Hell yeah, it was but that's what police officers DO! I'm making a guess that the area this took place in is being targeted by the police, which means they're stopping every vehicle that they can for whatever reason they can. I've been pulled over by the police many times in just the same way. They talk to you, ask you where it is you're going, check your info, then they issue you a warning and you're on your way. Is it a pain in the ass sitting there on the side of the road while they check you out? Hell, yeah it is but you're an idiot if you decide that the intelligent thing to do is to get in the cop's face for stopping you. Get this through your head...that cop isn't looking for YOU...he or she is looking for BAD GUYS DOING BAD STUFF! They ARE going to let you go on your way with a warning. They don't want to cite you! They don't want to arrest you! Look at it this way...if they see you again...they're probably going to remember you as that person who didn't come back with priors or outstanding warrants. You're one of the GOOD GUYS! The kind of people that police officers like!

Ok. I agree up to the point the cop lost his shit. Even his boss said he didn't follow procedure. What was she arrested for?
The cop had all of the control. You can't arrest someone for being a smartass. That's on video as well. The cop has an obligation to be professional as well since it's being recorders and all. Otherwise he is a liability.
Why you all defer to the cops is beyond me.

He didn't arrest her for being a smart ass but that's what started the whole thing.

Really? What did he pull her out to arrest her for then?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

He was out of line, but she clearly exacerbated the situation.

I'd say they both did some exacerbating. But the cop was in control of the situation and all he needed to do was write the summons and say goodbye. It was up to him but he chose to take it to the limit.

With all due respect, Mike..."she" is the one in charge of the situation. If she puts out her cigarette and signs the warning, that police officer tells her to have a nice day, gets back in his cruiser and leaves. She doesn't do that though...does she? She makes a decision that she doesn't like what the police officer has done stopping her for changing lanes without signalling and she's going to give him a piece of her mind. Now do I think the police officer over reacted to her? Yes, I do. He shouldn't have let her attitude get under his skin. At that point the old saying "it takes two to tango" applies to what is happening. She won't back down and neither will he. She resists arrest and she goes to jail. He "wins" his contest with her and then gets roasted by the media when she subsequently commits suicide in jail. The person who ultimately took it to the limit was her.

The officer is the authority and in total control.

Yes and in controlling the situation, using his authority he asked to her to put out her smoke and exit the car. She didn't comply. Should he have then just said "oh never mind" and let her go?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

A better question might be...how do you go from getting a warning to getting arrested simply because you feel the need to tell the cop giving you the warning that you think he's being petty? Sign the ticket. Drive away.

Where is the crime that required arrest in your statement?

 

[Nosmo King]

Do you believe that respect is a reciprocal quality? If citizens should respect police, why don't police seem to be able to respect citizens?

She got what she deserved? Really?

I find fear to be much more useful than respect when dealing with most people. Even if it was a respect issue its,about respecting the badge abd the authority that comes with it rather than the individual wearing it.

She got arrested which is what she deserved. The rest was in her hands, novody else's.

I can understand why you would employ fear rather than respect. You do not believe in the concept of police serving and protecting. As you are a heartless authoritarian, it makes perfect sense. All I ask is that you never participate in policing any community. Your attitude serves concentration camp internees well, but is inappropriately useless in civil society..

Officers do not deserve respect?

Read prior posts.

My question is: Is respect reciprocal? If citizens should respect police officers, shouldn't police officers respect citizens?

 

[Hutch Starskey]

He was out of line, but she clearly exacerbated the situation.

I'd say they both did some exacerbating. But the cop was in control of the situation and all he needed to do was write the summons and say goodbye. It was up to him but he chose to take it to the limit.

With all due respect, Mike..."she" is the one in charge of the situation. If she puts out her cigarette and signs the warning, that police officer tells her to have a nice day, gets back in his cruiser and leaves. She doesn't do that though...does she? She makes a decision that she doesn't like what the police officer has done stopping her for changing lanes without signalling and she's going to give him a piece of her mind. Now do I think the police officer over reacted to her? Yes, I do. He shouldn't have let her attitude get under his skin. At that point the old saying "it takes two to tango" applies to what is happening. She won't back down and neither will he. She resists arrest and she goes to jail. He "wins" his contest with her and then gets roasted by the media when she subsequently commits suicide in jail. The person who ultimately took it to the limit was her.

The officer is the authority and in total control.

Yes and in controlling the situation, using his authority he asked to her to put out her smoke and exit the car. She didn't comply. Should he have then just said "oh never mind" and let her go?

Yes exactly. Here is your ticket. Have a nice day.

 

[PredFan]

Mark my words here, this is what is going to happen: the cop will be near completely exonerated.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Rdean, she failed to follow the rules and she got what she deserved. Follow the rules and this sort of stuff doesn't happen

I'm 4 years old and have never gotten a movie g violation or been arrested. Why the cast majority of Americans can't say the same thing suggests to me that the biggest problem in thus country is likely it's citizens.

She didn't use a turn signal so she deserved to die. Never heard that "rule" applied to a white person, have you?

God but you're clueless! She took her own life. She went to jail because she decided to give a police officer attitude over a warning that she was being issued. Was it a ticky tack traffic stop? Getting pulled over for not signalling a lane change? Hell yeah, it was but that's what police officers DO! I'm making a guess that the area this took place in is being targeted by the police, which means they're stopping every vehicle that they can for whatever reason they can. I've been pulled over by the police many times in just the same way. They talk to you, ask you where it is you're going, check your info, then they issue you a warning and you're on your way. Is it a pain in the ass sitting there on the side of the road while they check you out? Hell, yeah it is but you're an idiot if you decide that the intelligent thing to do is to get in the cop's face for stopping you. Get this through your head...that cop isn't looking for YOU...he or she is looking for BAD GUYS DOING BAD STUFF! They ARE going to let you go on your way with a warning. They don't want to cite you! They don't want to arrest you! Look at it this way...if they see you again...they're probably going to remember you as that person who didn't come back with priors or outstanding warrants. You're one of the GOOD GUYS! The kind of people that police officers like!

Ok. I agree up to the point the cop lost his shit. Even his boss said he didn't follow procedure. What was she arrested for?
The cop had all of the control. You can't arrest someone for being a smartass. That's on video as well. The cop has an obligation to be professional as well since it's being recorders and all. Otherwise he is a liability.
Why you all defer to the cops is beyond me.

He didn't arrest her for being a smart ass but that's what started the whole thing.

Really? What did he pull her out to arrest her for then?

Refusing a lawful order is a crime in Texas.

When Bland refuses to put out her cigarette, Encinia orders her out of her car, saying, “Well, you can step on out now.” This was a command. In a 1977 case, Pennsylvania v. Mimms, the Supreme Court held that officers can, at their discretion, order a driver to exit the vehicle during a traffic stop (a later case expanded the rule to other vehicle occupants). That rule was justified, the Mimms Court said, because the importance of officer safety outweighs what the Court saw as the “mere inconvenience” of having to exit one’s vehicle. Although the rule is grounded in safety, officers do not need to articulate any safety concerns or any other reason in each case; they have carte blanche to require someone to exit a vehicle during the course of a traffic stop. Encinia had the authority to order Bland to exit her vehicle.