Everyone has solutions, especially armchair quarterbacks - lets hear yours

[eagle1462010]

List of armed groups in the Syrian Civil War - Wikipedia

 

[eagle1462010]

Arms are flowing into the region through many sources. There are so many factions fighting there that it's hard to decipher.........

The world has decided to make this a battle ground for their interests in the aftermath. Some for saying Sunni must win......others for saying the Shiite might win.........others for an oil pipeline to Europe.............others to maintain a Naval Base.......

In order for this to come to some kind of stability, 1 side or the other must win.......and the other side driven out and or killed......as long as the factions fighting continue to get funded and reinforced from other countries it will go on and on and on....With foreign fighters continuing to replace the ones killed in the fighting.......

The real question is who do we want to win..........surely not ISIS.........and with continued use of chemical weapons it is coming down to possibly Not Assad.......

Leaving us with rebel forces who have fought with and even helped arm ISIS........the Kurds can't take it over because Turkey would invade the place............

So WHO would be able to maintain the place if they won........that is the main question................

 

[yiostheoy]

At the moment, I can think of multiple emerging serious world events that Trump is going to have to deal with. Everyone is happy to criticize Trump and Obama for acting or not acting. But that ignores the reality - in which simple solutions are not going to solve complex problems.

Two leading contenders for the Big World Problem of the year are: Syria and NK.

Let's look at Syria:
Syria is into it's 6th year of Civil War. Now, to put this in perspective - civil wars are the worst wars, long, bloody, destructive. The Congo has been in and out of a civil war that has been deemed the bloodiest conflict ever since about 1960. No one has been able to "solve it" nor is it much in the news despite the incredible brutality and the use of child soldiers. If the Congo can't be solved...how are we going to "fix" Syria?

Modern Syria is a product of artificial borders from the division of the Ottoman Empire by the national powers of the time. It' forced together different and opposing ethnic, tribal and religious groups under a strong man regime. The regime itself was of a minority population, and kept divisions alive in order to maintain power. You have other minorities allied with the regime because the regime protected them in exchange for loyalty. An then you have others who have long been discrimminated against or even outright attacked by the regime. The entire mess is held together by a ruthless dictator. That's the readers digest version.

Part 2 - popular uprising. Short version: Assad brutally attacked peaceful demonstrators demanding political change. That was the shot that started the spiral downward. Assad's brutality against his own people became more and more apparent as the conflict grew. ISIS found a foothold in the people that had previously suffered under Assad's rule. Fast forward to now: Syria is split into regime controlled territory, "rebel" controlled territory (and "rebel" means diverse groups with differing agendas and loyalties) and ISIS controlled territory.

Part 3 - lets make it even more complicated! We have Outside Interests. Russia has involved itself - and is propping up Assad. Russia has it's own interests and agenda not the least of which is to be a world leader in the global arena. Add to that, Iran - another wanna-be world player, or at least a major regional power. Finally - we have Turkey, who's borders with Syria and problems with the Kurds create yet another agenda in the conflict.

Part 4 - all seem to be supporting different factions in the conflict turning Syria into what I think is a proxy war for outside powers.

All right folks, let's hear from you: What should the US do?


I'll outline NK later.

USA should stay out of Syrian Civil War.

Next question.

 

[yiostheoy]

At the moment, I can think of multiple emerging serious world events that Trump is going to have to deal with. Everyone is happy to criticize Trump and Obama for acting or not acting. But that ignores the reality - in which simple solutions are not going to solve complex problems.

Two leading contenders for the Big World Problem of the year are: Syria and NK.

Let's look at Syria:
Syria is into it's 6th year of Civil War. Now, to put this in perspective - civil wars are the worst wars, long, bloody, destructive. The Congo has been in and out of a civil war that has been deemed the bloodiest conflict ever since about 1960. No one has been able to "solve it" nor is it much in the news despite the incredible brutality and the use of child soldiers. If the Congo can't be solved...how are we going to "fix" Syria?

Modern Syria is a product of artificial borders from the division of the Ottoman Empire by the national powers of the time. It' forced together different and opposing ethnic, tribal and religious groups under a strong man regime. The regime itself was of a minority population, and kept divisions alive in order to maintain power. You have other minorities allied with the regime because the regime protected them in exchange for loyalty. An then you have others who have long been discrimminated against or even outright attacked by the regime. The entire mess is held together by a ruthless dictator. That's the readers digest version.

Part 2 - popular uprising. Short version: Assad brutally attacked peaceful demonstrators demanding political change. That was the shot that started the spiral downward. Assad's brutality against his own people became more and more apparent as the conflict grew. ISIS found a foothold in the people that had previously suffered under Assad's rule. Fast forward to now: Syria is split into regime controlled territory, "rebel" controlled territory (and "rebel" means diverse groups with differing agendas and loyalties) and ISIS controlled territory.

Part 3 - lets make it even more complicated! We have Outside Interests. Russia has involved itself - and is propping up Assad. Russia has it's own interests and agenda not the least of which is to be a world leader in the global arena. Add to that, Iran - another wanna-be world player, or at least a major regional power. Finally - we have Turkey, who's borders with Syria and problems with the Kurds create yet another agenda in the conflict.

Part 4 - all seem to be supporting different factions in the conflict turning Syria into what I think is a proxy war for outside powers.

All right folks, let's hear from you: What should the US do?


I'll outline NK later.

1. It is no longer a civil war. It began as a civil war but even then it was Alawites in control being opposed by the Sunni Syrians. Assad quickly called in Hezbollah and Iran, which made it more clearly part of the regional sectarian conflict between Sunni and Shia.

Along with Iran, Shia militias from Iraq and as far away as Afghanistan began showing up in Syria to fight for the Alawite government, and in response, Saudis and other Sunni majority nations began sending money and weapons to the Sunni rebels. It was no longer a civil war between aggrieved Syrians and an oppressive government but just a theater in the sectarian war between Shia and Sunni.

Assad was still losing the war, so he called in Russia and Russia's heavey bombing of Sunni areas turned the tide of the war in favor of the Assad government, if at any point Russia were to stop bombing the Sunni, the Assad government would quickly fall despite all the help from Iran and other Shia.

According to a report from the Syrian Network for Human Rights last month, 207,000 civilians have been killed so far and 94% of these deaths are the result of bombing by Assad and Russia.

http://sn4hr.org/wp-content/pdf/eng...of_the_Syrian_alliance_Iranian_Russian_en.pdf

The only way this horror can stop is if the Russians can be persuaded to stop bombing. While this will still leave a mess to clean up in Syria, the major cause of death and homeless refugees will have ended, and this would be a great start toward helping the Syrians to reclaim their country and to organize an inclusive government.

They had an inclusive government under Assad. It was a dictatorship , yes, but that was necessary to keep militants in check. Sunnis will attempt genocide against all others if Assad is removed.

Moosleems are torn between Sunni and Shia.

They will always have civil wars.

They will never be united.

Let them fight until one side is exterminated.

Then ultimately the last man standing will be either Saudi Arabia or Persia -- the source of these two sh!t hole factions of this whole sh!t hole religion of islam.

 

[yiostheoy]

Arms are flowing into the region through many sources. There are so many factions fighting there that it's hard to decipher.........

The world has decided to make this a battle ground for their interests in the aftermath. Some for saying Sunni must win......others for saying the Shiite might win.........others for an oil pipeline to Europe.............others to maintain a Naval Base.......

In order for this to come to some kind of stability, 1 side or the other must win.......and the other side driven out and or killed......as long as the factions fighting continue to get funded and reinforced from other countries it will go on and on and on....With foreign fighters continuing to replace the ones killed in the fighting.......

The real question is who do we want to win..........surely not ISIS.........and with continued use of chemical weapons it is coming down to possibly Not Assad.......

Leaving us with rebel forces who have fought with and even helped arm ISIS........the Kurds can't take it over because Turkey would invade the place............

So WHO would be able to maintain the place if they won........that is the main question................

Sell guns and ammo to both sides.

But make them actually pay for it.

Not just credits against their foreign aid account.

 

[yiostheoy]

North Korea --

Missile strikes against anything and everything in N.Korea that has anything to do with their rocketry projects and their weapons grade uranium projects.

N.Korea must never be allowed to create nuclear weapons.

Same with Iran.

Both of these regimes are too insane. And they have already proved it.

And their two peoples are too lame to control their own governments.

 

[yiostheoy]

Missiles are not cheap. They cost $1 million each. This is the downside.

But even so, N.Korea and Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons.

 

[yiostheoy]

Iran --

Same exact problem as N.Korea.

Same solution too.

 

[yiostheoy]

Syria --

Insignificant when compared to Iran and N.Korea.

However Syria made a convenient target for a U.S. missile strike last week.

Kim Jong Ooon must be sh!tting bricks right about now.

 

[eagle1462010]

North Korea already has nuclear weapons......Just not the long ranged missiles for delivery.

 

[yiostheoy]

North Korea already has nuclear weapons......Just not the long ranged missiles for delivery.

The have detonated nuclear explosions but not yet designed deliverable munitions.

Big difference for the Fat Boy.

 

[Preacher]

Close ALL bases,Remove ALL troops. Simple as that. Stay the hell out of the ME!

 

[Onyx]

Syria wont be at peace until there is effective submission of the rebels, or Russia and Iran no longer support Assad. With Russian entry into the civil war, any notion of arming the rebels to overthrow Assad was out of the question. Especially when there is no unified opposition, and the west refuses to support groups like Al-Nusra.

It's like the Soviet War in Afghanistan. The United States couldn't overthrow the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan no matter how much weapons and intelligence support they gave the Mujahideen . Even though the Soviets eventually withdrew from the country in 1989 (falsely propagated as a western victory), the DRA stayed in power until 1992. The DRA was a geopolitical entity that's survival was contingent on that of the Soviet Union.

Likewise, Ba'ath Syria is a geopolitical entity that will survive as long as the Russian Federation is a superpower.

 

[Onyx]

The have detonated nuclear explosions but not yet designed deliverable munitions.

Not deliverable to the United States at least.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is largely the latest chapter in an on-going war between Shia and Sunni muslims, and there's no way I want us to get sucked into that. Seems to me a total waste of time, blood, and money to get involved, except that we have a refugee problem here and in Europe that needs to be addressed. So - IMHO we need to send a sharp and clear message to Assad, Putin, and the Iranian gov't that it's long since past time to put an end to that war. And this is how I think it needs to go, again IMHO:

1. Tell Russia to get the fuck out. If they don't we put economic sanctions that cost them, increasing over time and I'm talking weeks not months or years. They ain't fighting Isis and everyone knows it. Any airfield from which Russian warplanes are being used to bomb the Syrian civilian population will be destroyed, and I don't care if it's inside Russian territory or anywhere else. They can keep their base in Syria but they can no longer use military force in Syria.
2. Tell Iran to get the fuck out. If they don't the Obama nuke deal gets scrapped and we bomb the hell out of their military bases. Doesn't look to me like economic sanctions mean a tinker's damn to them, so go after their military facilities and bases, and if they want a war we'll give 'em one.
3. Destroy Isis with a coalition of forces that goes in, kicks ass and goes home. US forces would stay no longer than 6 months, whether it's over or not.
4. After step 1, step 2, and step 3, tell Assad to step down or get killed. Simple as that, and if he no longer has the military backing of the Russians and the Iranians my guess is he leaves.
5. Setup a UN peacekeeping force inside Syria until elections are held and the country at least begins to stabilize. Tell the UN if they don't sign up for it the US will pull out of the UN and kick their asses out of NYC. We'll see how loud money talks, and we can setup our own humanitarian programs with the money that was going to tthe UN, which is likely to be better spent.

You can't go in, destroy the current government and then leave. All you're doing is creating a power vacuum and those who replace the old regime, are quite likely to be the worst sort of radical you can name. That's what happened in Iraq and in Libya. It's how the Ayatollahs took over Iran.

It's why you're now fighting ISIL.

 

[westwall]

Written like a true sociopathic imbecile. That the best you can come up with or are you simply too stupid to think about anything other than mass murder?

I grew up with two younger brothers. My parents had a simple way of dealing with arguments over "shared" items or over ownership of items.....

If we couldn't work it out quickly and efficiently between ourselves.... the item got DESTROYED, while we watched.

So? Idiotic parents is not the model you should be using.

 

[yiostheoy]

The have detonated nuclear explosions but not yet designed deliverable munitions.

Not deliverable to the United States at least.

And N.Korea must never be allowed to develop that capability.

 

[task0778]

This is largely the latest chapter in an on-going war between Shia and Sunni muslims, and there's no way I want us to get sucked into that. Seems to me a total waste of time, blood, and money to get involved, except that we have a refugee problem here and in Europe that needs to be addressed. So - IMHO we need to send a sharp and clear message to Assad, Putin, and the Iranian gov't that it's long since past time to put an end to that war. And this is how I think it needs to go, again IMHO:

1. Tell Russia to get the fuck out. If they don't we put economic sanctions that cost them, increasing over time and I'm talking weeks not months or years. They ain't fighting Isis and everyone knows it. Any airfield from which Russian warplanes are being used to bomb the Syrian civilian population will be destroyed, and I don't care if it's inside Russian territory or anywhere else. They can keep their base in Syria but they can no longer use military force in Syria.
2. Tell Iran to get the fuck out. If they don't the Obama nuke deal gets scrapped and we bomb the hell out of their military bases. Doesn't look to me like economic sanctions mean a tinker's damn to them, so go after their military facilities and bases, and if they want a war we'll give 'em one.
3. Destroy Isis with a coalition of forces that goes in, kicks ass and goes home. US forces would stay no longer than 6 months, whether it's over or not.
4. After step 1, step 2, and step 3, tell Assad to step down or get killed. Simple as that, and if he no longer has the military backing of the Russians and the Iranians my guess is he leaves.
5. Setup a UN peacekeeping force inside Syria until elections are held and the country at least begins to stabilize. Tell the UN if they don't sign up for it the US will pull out of the UN and kick their asses out of NYC. We'll see how loud money talks, and we can setup our own humanitarian programs with the money that was going to tthe UN, which is likely to be better spent.

You can't go in, destroy the current government and then leave. All you're doing is creating a power vacuum and those who replace the old regime, are quite likely to be the worst sort of radical you can name. That's what happened in Iraq and in Libya. It's how the Ayatollahs took over Iran.

It's why you're now fighting ISIL.

Worse than what they have now? Hard to imagine.

 

[Dragonlady]

This is largely the latest chapter in an on-going war between Shia and Sunni muslims, and there's no way I want us to get sucked into that. Seems to me a total waste of time, blood, and money to get involved, except that we have a refugee problem here and in Europe that needs to be addressed. So - IMHO we need to send a sharp and clear message to Assad, Putin, and the Iranian gov't that it's long since past time to put an end to that war. And this is how I think it needs to go, again IMHO:

1. Tell Russia to get the fuck out. If they don't we put economic sanctions that cost them, increasing over time and I'm talking weeks not months or years. They ain't fighting Isis and everyone knows it. Any airfield from which Russian warplanes are being used to bomb the Syrian civilian population will be destroyed, and I don't care if it's inside Russian territory or anywhere else. They can keep their base in Syria but they can no longer use military force in Syria.
2. Tell Iran to get the fuck out. If they don't the Obama nuke deal gets scrapped and we bomb the hell out of their military bases. Doesn't look to me like economic sanctions mean a tinker's damn to them, so go after their military facilities and bases, and if they want a war we'll give 'em one.
3. Destroy Isis with a coalition of forces that goes in, kicks ass and goes home. US forces would stay no longer than 6 months, whether it's over or not.
4. After step 1, step 2, and step 3, tell Assad to step down or get killed. Simple as that, and if he no longer has the military backing of the Russians and the Iranians my guess is he leaves.
5. Setup a UN peacekeeping force inside Syria until elections are held and the country at least begins to stabilize. Tell the UN if they don't sign up for it the US will pull out of the UN and kick their asses out of NYC. We'll see how loud money talks, and we can setup our own humanitarian programs with the money that was going to tthe UN, which is likely to be better spent.

You can't go in, destroy the current government and then leave. All you're doing is creating a power vacuum and those who replace the old regime, are quite likely to be the worst sort of radical you can name. That's what happened in Iraq and in Libya. It's how the Ayatollahs took over Iran.

It's why you're now fighting ISIL.

Worse than what they have now? Hard to imagine.

Well that's what people said about Hussein. The US took him out and ISIS filled the void. I would say that ISIS manages to be worse than Saddam Hussein. He just took out his own people and attacked his neighbours. ISIS is a world-wide terror network. I can't imagine anything worse than Assad, but then I couldn't imagine worse than Hussein either.

 

[Onyx]

Well that's what people said about Hussein. The US took him out and ISIS filled the void

The elected government of Nouri Al-Maliki filled the void. Al-Qaeda and their affiliate ISIL just used the instability of a fledgling republic to create further chaos. It's what any ideological militant group would do in any part of the world.

I don't know why you people expected to be able to transition Iraq from 35 years of authoritarian rule to a representative republic without there being some growing pains.