Even With The Bow, Obama Comes Back Empty

[Annie]

Thanks to our forefathers, it takes more than a president to get through big domestic change. Not saying it won't happen, but the road is rocky.

OTOH, lots more potential of foreign side and he's just not getting his 'vision' out there. Problem is, he's making the US look very weak:

Concerns Rise Around Obama Trip - WSJ.com

Concerns Rise Around Obama Trip
By JONATHAN WEISMAN

SHANGHAI -- President Barack Obama arrived here late Sunday to press China on issues from climate change to economic restructuring, amid rising concerns that his first swing through Asia as president will yield more disappointment than progress on trade, human rights, national security and environmental concerns.

A flurry of actions in Singapore this weekend raised more questions than they resolved on a broad sweep of issues confronting both sides of the Pacific. On Sunday, leaders of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum dropped efforts to reach a binding international climate-change agreement in Copenhagen next month, settling instead for what they called a political framework for future negotiations.

Mr. Obama became the first president to meet with the entire Association of Southeast Asian Nations, including the military junta of Myanmar, and White House officials say he personally demanded the country's leaders release political prisoners, including opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi. But Mr. Obama failed to secure any mention of political prisoners in an ASEAN communiqué.

The U.S. and Russia now appear unlikely to complete a nuclear arms reduction accord by Dec. 5, when the current Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty expires. Mr. Obama met for closed-door consultations with Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, but National Security Council Russia specialist Michael McFaul said major issues remain, and the two countries are working out a "bridging agreement" to extend previous arms-ratification rules.

On trade, the U.S. president committed this weekend to re-engage the Trans Pacific Partnership, a fledgling free trade alliance in the region. But a presidential shift in tone toward more trade engagement will face its real test Thursday when Mr. Obama visits South Korea to discuss a free trade agreement with that country that remains stuck.

And on Iran, Messers. Obama and Medvedev were left to warn leaders of the Islamic Republic once again that "time is running out." Iran has yet to agree to a Russian offer to provide nuclear material for research in exchange for the closure of a nuclear reactor that western powers say could be used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.

Half way through his Asian tour, Mr. Obama is confronting the limits of engagement and personal charm.

...

 

[Diuretic]

He's actually not making the US look weak. Think about it. Other countries know exactly how the US is faring. If the US is weak they know it, if the US is strong, they know it. They're not interested in perceptions, they focus on realty. They also know that a weak US can overnight become a strong US, that's reality too.
But they can pick bullshit and bluster so a frank approach is probably best.

As for ASEAN, forget it. It's a complete mess. At the moment Thailand and Cambodia are at each other's throats over the former Thai PM Shinawatra being lauded in Pnom Penh by the former Khmer Rouge boofhead Hun Sen.

The Junta in Burma (stuff this Myanmar crap, my father fought in Burma) is a despotic regime as bad as Saddam's but it has China on side so ASEAN nor anyone else is going to shift them.

Foreign policy is Byzantine. But it does provide the opportunity for cheap attacks back home, it happens in my country all the time, I have no doubt the US isn't much different.

 

[Annie]

He's actually not making the US look weak. Think about it. Other countries know exactly how the US is faring. If the US is weak they know it, if the US is strong, they know it. They're not interested in perceptions, they focus on realty. They also know that a weak US can overnight become a strong US, that's reality too.
But they can pick bullshit and bluster so a frank approach is probably best.

As for ASEAN, forget it. It's a complete mess. At the moment Thailand and Cambodia are at each other's throats over the former Thai PM Shinawatra being lauded in Pnom Penh by the former Khmer Rouge boofhead Hun Sen.

The Junta in Burma (stuff this Myanmar crap, my father fought in Burma) is a despotic regime as bad as Saddam's but it has China on side so ASEAN nor anyone else is going to shift them.

Foreign policy is Byzantine. But it does provide the opportunity for cheap attacks back home, it happens in my country all the time, I have no doubt the US isn't much different.

I think that countries in Europe, AU, Japan believe the US can become 'strong' whenever they choose to. All I can say is remember France in 1938.

 

[Xenophon]

He's finding that the bullshit that got him elected doesn't work in the international arena, where results matter.

He is also discoving that his love affair with the European left cuts no ice with the Russians or the Asians.

 

[Si modo]

He's finding that the bullshit that got him elected doesn't work in the international arena, where results matter.

He is also discoving that his love affair with the European left cuts no ice with the Russians or the Asians.

Obama has a lot to learn about the Russians. Not a good time for a newby.

 

[Annie]

He's finding that the bullshit that got him elected doesn't work in the international arena, where results matter.

He is also discoving that his love affair with the European left cuts no ice with the Russians or the Asians.

He talked a good talk about EU while campaigning, since then he's shown them as much respect as the 'tea baggers.' His disdain for success is phenomenal, his admiration for dictators seems to know no bounds.

 

[Diuretic]

He's actually not making the US look weak. Think about it. Other countries know exactly how the US is faring. If the US is weak they know it, if the US is strong, they know it. They're not interested in perceptions, they focus on realty. They also know that a weak US can overnight become a strong US, that's reality too.
But they can pick bullshit and bluster so a frank approach is probably best.

As for ASEAN, forget it. It's a complete mess. At the moment Thailand and Cambodia are at each other's throats over the former Thai PM Shinawatra being lauded in Pnom Penh by the former Khmer Rouge boofhead Hun Sen.

The Junta in Burma (stuff this Myanmar crap, my father fought in Burma) is a despotic regime as bad as Saddam's but it has China on side so ASEAN nor anyone else is going to shift them.

Foreign policy is Byzantine. But it does provide the opportunity for cheap attacks back home, it happens in my country all the time, I have no doubt the US isn't much different.

I think that countries in Europe, AU, Japan believe the US can become 'strong' whenever they choose to. All I can say is remember France in 1938.

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

 

[Xenophon]

He's finding that the bullshit that got him elected doesn't work in the international arena, where results matter.

He is also discoving that his love affair with the European left cuts no ice with the Russians or the Asians.

Obama has a lot to learn about the Russians. Not a good time for a newby.

They tested him with Georgia, they know he won't stand up for smaller nations.

Since they are know his hand now, the Russians see no value in being reasonable with him.

 

[Annie]

He's actually not making the US look weak. Think about it. Other countries know exactly how the US is faring. If the US is weak they know it, if the US is strong, they know it. They're not interested in perceptions, they focus on realty. They also know that a weak US can overnight become a strong US, that's reality too.
But they can pick bullshit and bluster so a frank approach is probably best.

As for ASEAN, forget it. It's a complete mess. At the moment Thailand and Cambodia are at each other's throats over the former Thai PM Shinawatra being lauded in Pnom Penh by the former Khmer Rouge boofhead Hun Sen.

The Junta in Burma (stuff this Myanmar crap, my father fought in Burma) is a despotic regime as bad as Saddam's but it has China on side so ASEAN nor anyone else is going to shift them.

Foreign policy is Byzantine. But it does provide the opportunity for cheap attacks back home, it happens in my country all the time, I have no doubt the US isn't much different.

I think that countries in Europe, AU, Japan believe the US can become 'strong' whenever they choose to. All I can say is remember France in 1938.

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

Good dodge.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

He's actually not making the US look weak. Think about it. Other countries know exactly how the US is faring. If the US is weak they know it, if the US is strong, they know it. They're not interested in perceptions, they focus on realty. They also know that a weak US can overnight become a strong US, that's reality too.
But they can pick bullshit and bluster so a frank approach is probably best.

As for ASEAN, forget it. It's a complete mess. At the moment Thailand and Cambodia are at each other's throats over the former Thai PM Shinawatra being lauded in Pnom Penh by the former Khmer Rouge boofhead Hun Sen.

The Junta in Burma (stuff this Myanmar crap, my father fought in Burma) is a despotic regime as bad as Saddam's but it has China on side so ASEAN nor anyone else is going to shift them.

Foreign policy is Byzantine. But it does provide the opportunity for cheap attacks back home, it happens in my country all the time, I have no doubt the US isn't much different.

I think that countries in Europe, AU, Japan believe the US can become 'strong' whenever they choose to. All I can say is remember France in 1938.

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

France should not have lost in 40. Her leadership was profoundly lacking both Political and Military. Her and Britain sold Europe into World War 2 with their failure to act in 36 and again in 38.

This President and this Congress are weak kneed ignorant boobs when it comes to the Military. And the world's thugs and dictators have taken note of his inability to even do anything he said he would do in Afghanistan. They have noted his praise and support of a dictator wanna be in Honduras and his appeasing of Venezuela's dictator.

It does not matter one whit HOW STRONG or CAPABLE our military is if one knows it won't be used.

 

[Xenophon]

He's finding that the bullshit that got him elected doesn't work in the international arena, where results matter.

He is also discoving that his love affair with the European left cuts no ice with the Russians or the Asians.

He talked a good talk about EU while campaigning, since then he's shown them as much respect as the 'tea baggers.' His disdain for success is phenomenal, his admiration for dictators seems to know no bounds.

Insulting allies because they were friendly to Bush was a major error, those nations wanted to be allied to the USA, not its transient leadership.

THAT is what he doesn't grasp, thus he's cozy with enimes as they were his heroes for years as they opposed the 'bad USA' that he wants so much to change.

Of course he's too naieve to understand that Castro and Chavez and the like are playing him, they will be leaders until they are dead, Barry has only 3 to 7 years left at best. They know a new administration could easily disavow his cuddle ups and thus they don't make concessions to Barry.

 

[Diuretic]

I think that countries in Europe, AU, Japan believe the US can become 'strong' whenever they choose to. All I can say is remember France in 1938.

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

Good dodge.

I indulge now and again, heck everyone needs breathing space

But now, back into the fray.

Does anyone think foreign policy is built by one person on one journey? Would you be surprised if I suggested that thousands of people are working behind the scenes on foreign policy? Would you gufffaw if I used the metaphor of the iceberg in an effort to put my point? One visit is supposed to fix everything? There is no regard for what might be happening elsewhere?

How about this. Three old blokes are sitting together in a photo opportunity. They just had a conference. When each returned home do you reckon everyone knew what had been achieved?

Who knows what will eventuate as a result of this visit by your president?

 

[Diuretic]

I think that countries in Europe, AU, Japan believe the US can become 'strong' whenever they choose to. All I can say is remember France in 1938.

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

France should not have lost in 40. Her leadership was profoundly lacking both Political and Military. Her and Britain sold Europe into World War 2 with their failure to act in 36 and again in 38.

This President and this Congress are weak kneed ignorant boobs when it comes to the Military. And the world's thugs and dictators have taken note of his inability to even do anything he said he would do in Afghanistan. They have noted his praise and support of a dictator wanna be in Honduras and his appeasing of Venezuela's dictator.

It does not matter one whit HOW STRONG or CAPABLE our military is if one knows it won't be used.

Correction. It was used. And its limitations were noted, don't you worry about that..

 

[Xenophon]

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

Good dodge.

I indulge now and again, heck everyone needs breathing space

But now, back into the fray.

Does anyone think foreign policy is built by one person on one journey? Would you be surprised if I suggested that thousands of people are working behind the scenes on foreign policy? Would you gufffaw if I used the metaphor of the iceberg in an effort to put my point? One visit is supposed to fix everything? There is no regard for what might be happening elsewhere?

How about this. Three old blokes are sitting together in a photo opportunity. They just had a conference. When each returned home do you reckon everyone knew what had been achieved?

Who knows what will eventuate as a result of this visit by your president?

Did you know FDR disliked Winnie, and never gave him what he wanted and always favored the Russians?

He even made the UK give up its gold reserves (but not the Russians) and forced the UK to remove trade barries in the common wealth after the war to US goods.

FDR ass raped the British all during the war.

 

[Diuretic]

He's finding that the bullshit that got him elected doesn't work in the international arena, where results matter.

He is also discoving that his love affair with the European left cuts no ice with the Russians or the Asians.

He talked a good talk about EU while campaigning, since then he's shown them as much respect as the 'tea baggers.' His disdain for success is phenomenal, his admiration for dictators seems to know no bounds.

Insulting allies because they were friendly to Bush was a major error, those nations wanted to be allied to the USA, not its tansient leadership.

THAT is what he doesn't grasp, thus he's cozy with enimes as they were his heroes for years as they opposed the 'bad USA' that he wants so much to change.

Of course he's too naieve to understand that Castro and Chavez and the like are playing him, they will be leaders until they are dead, Barry has only 3 to 7 years left at best. They know a new administration could easily disavow his cuddle ups and thus they don't make concessions to Barry.

The problem facing the US in terms of the view from outside is the apparent divided nation. Even a crippled giant is dangerous though, so don't expect the pipsqueaks to do much any time soon. It might be unpalatable to some but BushCheney was seen as a distortion of American government. It might have played in Peoria but it didn't do well in Potsdam. Obama is returning the world's view of the US to pre-BushCheney times. The mouth-foamers with their cortexes plugged into FoxNews may not like it but that's reality. If you can get behind your president with an open hand ready to support him rather than a closed hand with a knife in it you might be surprised what can be achieved.

 

[Xenophon]

He talked a good talk about EU while campaigning, since then he's shown them as much respect as the 'tea baggers.' His disdain for success is phenomenal, his admiration for dictators seems to know no bounds.

Insulting allies because they were friendly to Bush was a major error, those nations wanted to be allied to the USA, not its tansient leadership.

THAT is what he doesn't grasp, thus he's cozy with enimes as they were his heroes for years as they opposed the 'bad USA' that he wants so much to change.

Of course he's too naieve to understand that Castro and Chavez and the like are playing him, they will be leaders until they are dead, Barry has only 3 to 7 years left at best. They know a new administration could easily disavow his cuddle ups and thus they don't make concessions to Barry.

The problem facing the US in terms of the view from outside is the apparent divided nation. Even a crippled giant is dangerous though, so don't expect the pipsqueaks to do much any time soon. It might be unpalatable to some but BushCheney was seen as a distortion of American government. It might have played in Peoria but it didn't do well in Potsdam. Obama is returning the world's view of the US to pre-BushCheney times. The mouth-foamers with their cortexes plugged into FoxNews may not like it but that's reality. If you can get behind your president with an open hand ready to support him rather than a closed hand with a knife in it you might be surprised what can be achieved.

Unfortunely the pre Bush/Cheney model he's returning it to is the equaly non internationaly respected Bill Clinton era.

As for foaming at the mouth, see if you can tune in MSNBC down under, think of them as 'Pravda' with teleprompters.

 

[Diuretic]

Good dodge.

I indulge now and again, heck everyone needs breathing space

But now, back into the fray.

Does anyone think foreign policy is built by one person on one journey? Would you be surprised if I suggested that thousands of people are working behind the scenes on foreign policy? Would you gufffaw if I used the metaphor of the iceberg in an effort to put my point? One visit is supposed to fix everything? There is no regard for what might be happening elsewhere?

How about this. Three old blokes are sitting together in a photo opportunity. They just had a conference. When each returned home do you reckon everyone knew what had been achieved?

Who knows what will eventuate as a result of this visit by your president?

Did you know FDR disliked Winnie, and never gave him what he wanted and always favored the Russians?

He even made the UK give up its gold reserves (but not the Russians) and forced the UK to remove trade barries in the common wealth after the war to US goods.

FDR ass raped the British all during the war.

Good points. That's one of my beefs about how we learn history at school. We get the big events, the dates, the sweeping panoramas but we forget that the minutiae of everyday life is history. We forget that the giants we study were simply humans with all the weaknesses and foibles that humans have. Karl Marx wrote much of Capital standing up in the reading room of the British Library because he had carbuncles on his arse? That might explain the grumpy tone of his prose though.

For all I know Churchill could have been pissed as a newt for the entirety of WWII, but all in all he didn't do a bad job.

But right here, right now Xen, the detail isn't important. My reference to Yalta was to point out that in foreign policy the visit by the statesperson is theatre, the script is being written elsewhere.

 

[Diuretic]

Insulting allies because they were friendly to Bush was a major error, those nations wanted to be allied to the USA, not its tansient leadership.

THAT is what he doesn't grasp, thus he's cozy with enimes as they were his heroes for years as they opposed the 'bad USA' that he wants so much to change.

Of course he's too naieve to understand that Castro and Chavez and the like are playing him, they will be leaders until they are dead, Barry has only 3 to 7 years left at best. They know a new administration could easily disavow his cuddle ups and thus they don't make concessions to Barry.

The problem facing the US in terms of the view from outside is the apparent divided nation. Even a crippled giant is dangerous though, so don't expect the pipsqueaks to do much any time soon. It might be unpalatable to some but BushCheney was seen as a distortion of American government. It might have played in Peoria but it didn't do well in Potsdam. Obama is returning the world's view of the US to pre-BushCheney times. The mouth-foamers with their cortexes plugged into FoxNews may not like it but that's reality. If you can get behind your president with an open hand ready to support him rather than a closed hand with a knife in it you might be surprised what can be achieved.

Unfortunely the pre Bush/Cheney model he's returning it to is the equaly non internationaly respected Bill Clinton era.

As for foaming at the mouth, see if you can tune in MSNBC down under, think of them as 'Pravda' with teleprompters.

On my cable service I can't get MSNBC but I do get Fox. I wish I could get both.

Clinton, for all his faults on a personal level, gave the US a a foreign policy persona that was pretty useful. Trust me, I know, I'm a ferriner

 

[Xenophon]

The problem facing the US in terms of the view from outside is the apparent divided nation. Even a crippled giant is dangerous though, so don't expect the pipsqueaks to do much any time soon. It might be unpalatable to some but BushCheney was seen as a distortion of American government. It might have played in Peoria but it didn't do well in Potsdam. Obama is returning the world's view of the US to pre-BushCheney times. The mouth-foamers with their cortexes plugged into FoxNews may not like it but that's reality. If you can get behind your president with an open hand ready to support him rather than a closed hand with a knife in it you might be surprised what can be achieved.

Unfortunely the pre Bush/Cheney model he's returning it to is the equaly non internationaly respected Bill Clinton era.

As for foaming at the mouth, see if you can tune in MSNBC down under, think of them as 'Pravda' with teleprompters.

On my cable service I can't get MSNBC but I do get Fox. I wish I could get both.

Clinton, for all his faults on a personal level, gave the US a a foreign policy persona that was pretty useful. Trust me, I know, I'm a ferriner

Useful to same crowd that loves Obama, not the crowd he needs to deal with, namely a reactionary Russia, an unimpressed China and hostile middle east.

 

[Annie]

I never got to France in 1938, I hear it was interesting though

Good dodge.

I indulge now and again, heck everyone needs breathing space

But now, back into the fray.

Does anyone think foreign policy is built by one person on one journey? Would you be surprised if I suggested that thousands of people are working behind the scenes on foreign policy? Would you gufffaw if I used the metaphor of the iceberg in an effort to put my point? One visit is supposed to fix everything? There is no regard for what might be happening elsewhere?

How about this. Three old blokes are sitting together in a photo opportunity. They just had a conference. When each returned home do you reckon everyone knew what had been achieved?

Who knows what will eventuate as a result of this visit by your president?

Actually, it's not just Obama. Bush allowed himself to be portrayed the way the media, both here and abroad wanted to. He didn't bother to address the people, thus never gaining and often losing supporters. But that was then, now we have a new set of problems.

Obama regardless of what you wish to label him, is determined to change the US; economically, social services wise, militarily, in all ways he can. I don't think he will get a second term; but much mischief can be made in a year.