Even Obama Knows The End Is Near

[Toro]

The only glaring error is a system that pays Ed Scumbag Hanaway 72 million dollars for finding ways to let people die after they paid for health insurance.

Most decent societies, he'd be spat upon in the street.

But you're all so fine with this...

It's easier to demonize when you get your facts wrong.

It's easy to demonize when you do demonic things... If you want to get a real inside look at the medical insurance industry, look up Wendell Potter. He exposes the whole reeking mess.

Right. But first we have to have an honest discussion. When you act like the end justifies the means and blatantly make up shit, deflecting away to your end undermines your argument to everyone other than the most partisan hacks.

 

[JoeB131]

It's easier to demonize when you get your facts wrong.

It's easy to demonize when you do demonic things... If you want to get a real inside look at the medical insurance industry, look up Wendell Potter. He exposes the whole reeking mess.

Right. But first we have to have an honest discussion. When you act like the end justifies the means and blatantly make up shit, deflecting away to your end undermines your argument to everyone other than the most partisan hacks.

Um, guy, only deflecting is being done by you.

Because they called it a "salary" instead of a "profit" doesn't mean they aren't making extreme profits.

Cigna's revenues are about 13 billion, and they found enough money to pay old Ed Hanaway 72 Billion. So that was about .5% of their total revenue, just to pay Ed not to work there anymore. So that wasn't profit, oh, no, no no. And Cigna has hundreds of executives, who unlike Wendal Potter, are totally good with not paying for Natalie's liver transplant.

You know, once in a while you actually get close to admitting our system is evil, before you realize you are profiting off the evil.

 

[Toro]

It's easy to demonize when you do demonic things... If you want to get a real inside look at the medical insurance industry, look up Wendell Potter. He exposes the whole reeking mess.

Right. But first we have to have an honest discussion. When you act like the end justifies the means and blatantly make up shit, deflecting away to your end undermines your argument to everyone other than the most partisan hacks.

Um, guy, only deflecting is being done by you.

Because they called it a "salary" instead of a "profit" doesn't mean they aren't making extreme profits.

Cigna's revenues are about 13 billion, and they found enough money to pay old Ed Hanaway 72 Billion. So that was about .5% of their total revenue, just to pay Ed not to work there anymore. So that wasn't profit, oh, no, no no. And Cigna has hundreds of executives, who unlike Wendal Potter, are totally good with not paying for Natalie's liver transplant.

You know, once in a while you actually get close to admitting our system is evil, before you realize you are profiting off the evil.

Still a long long way from the 20% profit margin you were bullshitting about.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The answers to the health insurance mess are out there, and most of them are on the cost-containment and preventive sides, which would making increasing access to all (which is what it has to be) much easier. Unfortunately, our "leaders" are not serious people. They scream at each other for a few minutes and then go hunting for a teevee camera.

Here are a few fun facts I'd love to see denied:

• Our obesity and heart disease rates are far higher than any other country, draining our health care system on multiple levels. This is a cultural issue that both parties refuse to address.
• It's far less costly to provide comprehensive preventive services in the short term than it is to leave people uncovered in the long term. The GOP doesn't want to discuss this.
• It's far less costly to provide comprehensive diagnostic services in the short term than it is to allow disease to fester and grow and then have to deal with it for the long term. The GOP doesn't want to discuss this.
• Just throwing people into the system does not control costs, because increasing access without addressing cost does not bring down cost. The Democrats don't want to discuss this.

And here's another fact I'd like to see shot down:

A recent study of severe asthma patients showed alarming success with a simple idea. The asthma patients were given FREE medication for their condition ("oh no," says the GOP, "we can't do that, that's socialism") and basic education on their condition, the medication, how to take it, and why. See, there are lot of people who can't take their meds because they can't afford them.

The results were clear, a 70% drop in hospitalization and an 80% drop in emergency room visits. How simple, how obvious, how effective.

This is called VBID, Value-Based Insurance Design, look it up, in which the specific treatment of specific conditions are addressed, rather than just avoided. But since giving something for free to keep long term costs down is "socialism", this practice is evidently frowned upon, and the GOP doesn't bring it up. Source: http://www.managedcaremag.com/archives/0908/0908.vbid.html

So, a strong base coverage for all consisting of free preventive and diagnostic treatment to significantly cut long term health care costs ain't gonna happen. And our elected "leaders" are not going to remind the populace that their eating and exercise habits effect the cost of their health care, because they may not be re-elected after that. That's one example of several.

As long as politics are polluting health care discussion, things will continue to get worse.

.

 

[JoeB131]

Right. But first we have to have an honest discussion. When you act like the end justifies the means and blatantly make up shit, deflecting away to your end undermines your argument to everyone other than the most partisan hacks.

Um, guy, only deflecting is being done by you.

Because they called it a "salary" instead of a "profit" doesn't mean they aren't making extreme profits.

Cigna's revenues are about 13 billion, and they found enough money to pay old Ed Hanaway 72 Billion. So that was about .5% of their total revenue, just to pay Ed not to work there anymore. So that wasn't profit, oh, no, no no. And Cigna has hundreds of executives, who unlike Wendal Potter, are totally good with not paying for Natalie's liver transplant.

You know, once in a while you actually get close to admitting our system is evil, before you realize you are profiting off the evil.

Still a long long way from the 20% profit margin you were bullshitting about.

Well, then, they should have no problem with Obama's directive, then.

 

[mudwhistle]

Go to Los Angeles and sit in a waiting-room and you'll realize why health care in America is so expensive.

Absolutely.

But your solution would be to let them die in the street because they're brown.

Mine would be to make sure everyone has coverage that is provided at a reasonable price, and no one gets filthy rich in the process of someone else's pain.

You're full of shit.

You want the government to take it over.

Everyone will suffer equally then.......except for Congress.......and the president. They have their own health care plan.


The best solution to health care is an nationwide exercise program similar to the one they started in Europe back in the 60s. Volksmarching. http://walking.about.com/library/weekly/aa041298.htm

 

[Samson]

.

The answers to the health insurance mess are out there, and most of them are on the cost-containment and preventive sides, which would making increasing access to all (which is what it has to be) much easier. Unfortunately, our "leaders" are not serious people. They scream at each other for a few minutes and then go hunting for a teevee camera.

Here are a few fun facts I'd love to see denied:

• Our obesity and heart disease rates are far higher than any other country, draining our health care system on multiple levels. This is a cultural issue that both parties refuse to address.
• It's far less costly to provide comprehensive preventive services in the short term than it is to leave people uncovered in the long term. The GOP doesn't want to discuss this.
• It's far less costly to provide comprehensive diagnostic services in the short term than it is to allow disease to fester and grow and then have to deal with it for the long term. The GOP doesn't want to discuss this.
• Just throwing people into the system does not control costs, because increasing access without addressing cost does not bring down cost. The Democrats don't want to discuss this.

And here's another fact I'd like to see shot down:

A recent study of severe asthma patients showed alarming success with a simple idea. The asthma patients were given FREE medication for their condition ("oh no," says the GOP, "we can't do that, that's socialism") and basic education on their condition, the medication, how to take it, and why. See, there are lot of people who can't take their meds because they can't afford them.

The results were clear, a 70% drop in hospitalization and an 80% drop in emergency room visits. How simple, how obvious, how effective.

This is called VBID, Value-Based Insurance Design, look it up, in which the specific treatment of specific conditions are addressed, rather than just avoided. But since giving something for free to keep long term costs down is "socialism", this practice is evidently frowned upon, and the GOP doesn't bring it up. Source: Value-Based Insurance Design: Spend a Little More On Selected Patients For Payoff Down the Line | Managed Care Magazine Online

So, a strong base coverage for all consisting of free preventive and diagnostic treatment to significantly cut long term health care costs ain't gonna happen. And our elected "leaders" are not going to remind the populace that their eating and exercise habits effect the cost of their health care, because they may not be re-elected after that. That's one example of several.

As long as politics are polluting health care discussion, things will continue to get worse.

.

Why should the GOP "bring it up?"

I thought Barak Hussein and the Democratic SuperMajority passed "Health Care Reform?"

...or.....did THEY not bring up VBID......?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Who gives a **** about focus groups? Meaningless tripe.
Your side is on the run. Obama went and urinated on US Law by issuing what appears to be an illegal executive order.....Even the CNN reporter babe admitted Obama's offer of amnesty to young LATINO ONLY children of illegals was solely a political move.
Now all Obama has to do is sign another executive order allowing these people to vote.
Obama and his people know he would lose the election if it were held today. So Obama is using his office for his own reasons. He may think he is only establishing his base....He is also motivating his opposition.

 

[Mac1958]

.

The answers to the health insurance mess are out there, and most of them are on the cost-containment and preventive sides, which would making increasing access to all (which is what it has to be) much easier. Unfortunately, our "leaders" are not serious people. They scream at each other for a few minutes and then go hunting for a teevee camera.

Here are a few fun facts I'd love to see denied:

• Our obesity and heart disease rates are far higher than any other country, draining our health care system on multiple levels. This is a cultural issue that both parties refuse to address.
• It's far less costly to provide comprehensive preventive services in the short term than it is to leave people uncovered in the long term. The GOP doesn't want to discuss this.
• It's far less costly to provide comprehensive diagnostic services in the short term than it is to allow disease to fester and grow and then have to deal with it for the long term. The GOP doesn't want to discuss this.
• Just throwing people into the system does not control costs, because increasing access without addressing cost does not bring down cost. The Democrats don't want to discuss this.

And here's another fact I'd like to see shot down:

A recent study of severe asthma patients showed alarming success with a simple idea. The asthma patients were given FREE medication for their condition ("oh no," says the GOP, "we can't do that, that's socialism") and basic education on their condition, the medication, how to take it, and why. See, there are lot of people who can't take their meds because they can't afford them.

The results were clear, a 70% drop in hospitalization and an 80% drop in emergency room visits. How simple, how obvious, how effective.

This is called VBID, Value-Based Insurance Design, look it up, in which the specific treatment of specific conditions are addressed, rather than just avoided. But since giving something for free to keep long term costs down is "socialism", this practice is evidently frowned upon, and the GOP doesn't bring it up. Source: Value-Based Insurance Design: Spend a Little More On Selected Patients For Payoff Down the Line | Managed Care Magazine Online

So, a strong base coverage for all consisting of free preventive and diagnostic treatment to significantly cut long term health care costs ain't gonna happen. And our elected "leaders" are not going to remind the populace that their eating and exercise habits effect the cost of their health care, because they may not be re-elected after that. That's one example of several.

As long as politics are polluting health care discussion, things will continue to get worse.

.

Why should the GOP "bring it up?"

I thought Barak Hussein and the Democratic SuperMajority passed "Health Care Reform?"

...or.....did THEY not bring up VBID......?

The Democrats passed a nasty, bloated, incomplete bill in a shitty way, a plan that won't work.

The GOP should bring it up because (I'm told) they care about people and want them to have good health care. I'm amazed you would ask such a question. Or maybe I'm not.

Oh, and by the way: http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Artic...ealth-Insurance-Can-Bend-the-Curve.aspx#page1 - from the piece:

Value-based insurance design (VBID) received some media attention in the mid-2000s when Pitney Bowes eliminated co-pays for drugs to treat asthma and diabetes, saving the company an estimated $1 million in the first year through lower hospital costs. According to the Center for Value-based Insurance Design at the University of Michigan, about 300 self-insured large firms and nonprofits (like the university) have incorporated at least some elements of VBID into their plans, as have insurers across the country.

The Democrats in Congress who passed the Affordable Care Act included the carrot side of VBID when they voted to eliminate all co-pays on preventive services rated highly by the U.S. Preventive Services Task Force (USPSTF). The law also allowed private insurers to introduce VBID plans, and issued new regulations in September implementing the law.

But thanks for asking.


.

 

[JoeB131]

Go to Los Angeles and sit in a waiting-room and you'll realize why health care in America is so expensive.

Absolutely.

But your solution would be to let them die in the street because they're brown.

Mine would be to make sure everyone has coverage that is provided at a reasonable price, and no one gets filthy rich in the process of someone else's pain.

You're full of shit.

You want the government to take it over.

Everyone will suffer equally then.......except for Congress.......and the president. They have their own health care plan.


The best solution to health care is an nationwide exercise program similar to the one they started in Europe back in the 60s. Volksmarching. International Volkssport Federation IVV Walking Worldwide

Kind of hard to do "volksmarching" when you are stuck working two jobs to put food on the table so one rich asshole can have a car elevator.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Who gives a **** about focus groups? Meaningless tripe.
Your side is on the run. Obama went and urinated on US Law by issuing what appears to be an illegal executive order.....Even the CNN reporter babe admitted Obama's offer of amnesty to young LATINO ONLY children of illegals was solely a political move.
Now all Obama has to do is sign another executive order allowing these people to vote.
Obama and his people know he would lose the election if it were held today. So Obama is using his office for his own reasons. He may think he is only establishing his base....He is also motivating his opposition.

Most polls show Obama would win the election if it were held today... so that's full of crap.

Of course, the Bain stuff matters. It was how Kennedy beat Romney in 1994, and it appears that all Romney can do is squeal like a stuck pig. Because at the end of the day, we've all been there. Working for someone who has decided that upending your life will make his a little better.

As Mike Hucakabee said, "Romney looks like the guy who lays you off."

Do I think it was a political move yesterday? Yup. Does it matter? Nope.

 

[mudwhistle]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Who gives a **** about focus groups? Meaningless tripe.
Your side is on the run. Obama went and urinated on US Law by issuing what appears to be an illegal executive order.....Even the CNN reporter babe admitted Obama's offer of amnesty to young LATINO ONLY children of illegals was solely a political move.
Now all Obama has to do is sign another executive order allowing these people to vote.
Obama and his people know he would lose the election if it were held today. So Obama is using his office for his own reasons. He may think he is only establishing his base....He is also motivating his opposition.

Most polls show Obama would win the election if it were held today... so that's full of crap.

Of course, the Bain stuff matters. It was how Kennedy beat Romney in 1994, and it appears that all Romney can do is squeal like a stuck pig. Because at the end of the day, we've all been there. Working for someone who has decided that upending your life will make his a little better.

As Mike Hucakabee said, "Romney looks like the guy who lays you off."

Do I think it was a political move yesterday? Yup. Does it matter? Nope.

You're full of shit.

I'd accuse you of being one of Cass Sunstein's "Non-govermental Internet Bloggers" assigned to message boards to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but you're not good enough and your information is so factually bogus that you would never be mistaken for a government agent.

Just about everything you say can be easily debunked. Half the people here already have. The only thing you have going for you is persistence and a willingness to repeatedly make yourself look foolish.

 

[HenryBHough]

It really doesn't matter whether Obama or Obama-in-white-face wins. We're all screwed anyway.

 

[EriktheRed]

Even Obama Knows The End Is Near

Is that why the Romney camp feels the need to act like a bunch of assholes and use one of their buses to run around personally heckling him?

 

[EriktheRed]

Who gives a **** about focus groups? Meaningless tripe.
Your side is on the run. Obama went and urinated on US Law by issuing what appears to be an illegal executive order.....Even the CNN reporter babe admitted Obama's offer of amnesty to young LATINO ONLY children of illegals was solely a political move.
Now all Obama has to do is sign another executive order allowing these people to vote.
Obama and his people know he would lose the election if it were held today. So Obama is using his office for his own reasons. He may think he is only establishing his base....He is also motivating his opposition.

Most polls show Obama would win the election if it were held today... so that's full of crap.

Of course, the Bain stuff matters. It was how Kennedy beat Romney in 1994, and it appears that all Romney can do is squeal like a stuck pig. Because at the end of the day, we've all been there. Working for someone who has decided that upending your life will make his a little better.

As Mike Hucakabee said, "Romney looks like the guy who lays you off."

Do I think it was a political move yesterday? Yup. Does it matter? Nope.

You're full of shit.

I'd accuse you of being one of Cass Sunstein's "Non-govermental Internet Bloggers" assigned to message boards to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but you're not good enough and your information is so factually bogus that you would never be mistaken for a government agent.

Just about everything you say can be easily debunked. Half the people here already have. The only thing you have going for you is persistence and a willingness to repeatedly make yourself look foolish.

Nope, he's actually pretty much on the money. It was a political move, but it was also good policy and wingnuts like yourself are really just pissed because you know it can work in his favor.

 

[JoeB131]

You're full of shit.

I'd accuse you of being one of Cass Sunstein's "Non-govermental Internet Bloggers" assigned to message boards to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but you're not good enough and your information is so factually bogus that you would never be mistaken for a government agent.

Just about everything you say can be easily debunked. Half the people here already have. The only thing you have going for you is persistence and a willingness to repeatedly make yourself look foolish.

The only one sucking off the teet of big government here is you.

And sorry, quoting from The Journals of OxyCotin-man is not "debunking". It's just regurgitating some shit you heard on Hate Radio.

I would say the fact that you guys are so paranoid that you think that there are people out there who are just posting to screw with you means you need to get your meds adjusted.

 

[P@triot]

California is glaring evidence of the catastrophic failure of liberal policy. The most liberal state in the union, lead by idiot liberal politicians for the overwhelming majority of the past 50+ years, the state is failing miserably with a $16 billion deficit. I hope they do raise taxes - because it will cause them to have more businesses leave, higher unemployment, and an even larger deficit. Of course, the idiot liberal will still ignore reality and pretend it's not their policy that is the cause. *But at least the rest of America will see the truth.

"Firms, people, investments, and tax revenues are fleeing California, repelled by the most onerous antigrowth business environment in the United States,” Arthur Laffer writes in City Journal.

“California’s after-tax rate of return for doing business lags so far behind other states… that the exodus shouldn’t surprise anyone. Yet the state’s Democratic leadership is pushing a November ballot measure aimed at raising income and sales taxes in order to make up*for lost revenue,” he adds.

Although Laffer — himself a member of the California exodus — has lobbied for a flat tax in the broken state for years, his efforts have been met with little success. However, now that California’s financial crisis has taken on comical proportions, an embarrassing $16 billion shortfall, maybe — just maybe — state lawmakers will listen to what he has to say.

“California needs is a radical tax overhaul — to be precise, a single, low-rate flat tax. Such a reform would spur a renewal of economic activity and investment while continuing to raise the revenues that the state needs,” Laffer writes, arguing that the idea of taxing oneself into prosperity is absurd.

 

[JoeB131]

California is glaring evidence of the catastrophic failure of liberal policy. The most liberal state in the union, lead by idiot liberal politicians for the overwhelming majority of the past 50+ years, the state is failing miserably with a $16 billion deficit. I hope they do raise taxes - because it will cause them to have more businesses leave, higher unemployment, and an even larger deficit. Of course, the idiot liberal will still ignore reality and pretend it's not their policy that is the cause. *But at least the rest of America will see the truth.

.

California was the first state that drank the "Tax Cut" Koolaid.

In case you forgot the whole Proposition 13 bit.

Here's the real problem.

No one wants to pay taxes. Everyone wants government to provide all these services.

If we paid as we went, we would never have had the growth in government you sit here whining about excessively. If people knew what government cost them, they'd be less inclined to vote for more of it.

But give them a credit card with no limit?

Hense, why Supply-Siders are frauds.

 

[chanel]

Wow, you're delusional.

They've focus-grouped the Bain Stuff. It doesn't play well to the wealthy, but to working folks, it resonates.

Becuase everyone who has ever worked for a living has encountered a POS in a suit like Romney who laid them off at least once.

Everyone who has ever Worked for a Living has been Laid Off?...

Dishonest much?



peace...

My goodness. I have a very wide inner circle of friends and family who have never been laid off.

How sad that Joeb's loved ones are such losers.

 

[mudwhistle]

Most polls show Obama would win the election if it were held today... so that's full of crap.

Of course, the Bain stuff matters. It was how Kennedy beat Romney in 1994, and it appears that all Romney can do is squeal like a stuck pig. Because at the end of the day, we've all been there. Working for someone who has decided that upending your life will make his a little better.

As Mike Hucakabee said, "Romney looks like the guy who lays you off."

Do I think it was a political move yesterday? Yup. Does it matter? Nope.

You're full of shit.

I'd accuse you of being one of Cass Sunstein's "Non-govermental Internet Bloggers" assigned to message boards to throw a monkey wrench in the works, but you're not good enough and your information is so factually bogus that you would never be mistaken for a government agent.

Just about everything you say can be easily debunked. Half the people here already have. The only thing you have going for you is persistence and a willingness to repeatedly make yourself look foolish.

Nope, he's actually pretty much on the money. It was a political move, but it was also good policy and wingnuts like yourself are really just pissed because you know it can work in his favor.

So you admit it was purely political.

Truth is.....it changes nothing. Now lawsuits are gonna be flying everywhere.

He really loves bringing us all together under one roof, doesn't he???