Even if emissions stop, carbon dioxide could warm Earth for centuries

[westwall]

Government regulates businesses to keep things fair
Government doles out the tax dollars to build roads, educate our children and regulates our economy.

For the conservatives to ignore reality for profit like this tells me all I need to know. I support the private sector but it is only part of the puzzle.

You need to read some history buckwheat. Governments pass regulations based on what the larger corporations want. Invariably those regulations push the competitors OUT of business for the benefit of the corporation who bought the politicians.

 

[PMZ]

Of course. Aren't you? More to the point... all evidence we have says that a warmer world is better than a cold one. I dare you to look up the historical record and look at what was going on in Europe and China during the Medieval Warm Period (which was 2.3-2.7 degrees C warmer where I live than the present temp is) and pay particular attention to the explosion in culture. All obtainable because agriculture was doing leaps and bounds better than it had been in the previous cold period.

Everything about AGW "theory" ignores factual data. The only way they can make their statements is by ignoring actual historical data.

If we were at the stage of an unoccupied planet, your argument might have relevance, but we're not. We're starting with a civilized planet crowded with people and their infrastructure. All of that was based on the climate that we've chosen to leave behind. How much will humanity and infrastructure have to change to adapt to a new climate?

Depends on how much we choose to change it.

Little to none. Read some history.

There is no history of AGW. There is no history of overpopulated advanced civilizations adapting to AGW fueled extreme weather and sea level rise.

 

[westwall]

PMZ we need to focus on
1. Showing the economic benefits of "renewable" energy over the long term.
2. Health benefits

1#. Can be about the benefits of putting up solar or wind farms = little of the secondary maintenance cost after installation. How many trucks, drivers, train tracks and man hours does it take to get the fossil fuels compared to renewables??? I feel this must be part of the $$$ comparison.

2# Show how pollution from coal kills 10,000 people a year and/or dig up the article from China showing that coal pollution causes ; A. 5 less years of life in parts of China and B. Higher levels of cancer. Ask them if they believe that this isn't having affect on our society?

These are arguments worth using.

I agree. In fact, I think that the country should have always charged big oil for the military cost of protecting their supply.

In the future we should somehow charge all fossil fuels with the cost of mitigation and recovery from AGW fueled extreme weather and sea level rise.

Tax payers have to pay all of those costs anyway. Why not have them instead reflected in the cause.

As long as you include the "cost of the military" to protect and stabilize the sources of all those "Rare Earth" materials that wind and solar rely on for production as well.. Once you're producing a critical portion of the grid energy --- we'll be policing DIFFERENT parts of the world..

IN FACT --- a buried chain of news reports might explain why we're STILL in Afghanistan. Turns out --- that COUNTRY has been discovered to be a TREASURE CHEST of Rare Earth resources.. Seems like we've done some prospecting since we've been there...

Indeed we have been. Of course there were those who knew they were there in the first place. Just didn't know the quantity available.

 

[westwall]

If we were at the stage of an unoccupied planet, your argument might have relevance, but we're not. We're starting with a civilized planet crowded with people and their infrastructure. All of that was based on the climate that we've chosen to leave behind. How much will humanity and infrastructure have to change to adapt to a new climate?

Depends on how much we choose to change it.

Little to none. Read some history.

There is no history of AGW. There is no history of overpopulated advanced civilizations adapting to AGW fueled extreme weather and sea level rise.

Give the boy a ceegar! Correct! there is NO HISTORY OR EVIDENCE OF AGW.....EVER!

 

[PMZ]

If the technologies were worth pushing and encouraging, there would be no need for government money.

Face it, either you guys have no seriously viably marketable product or you seriously stink at marketing. Or both.

Here's an example of how sustainable energy is attracting private money.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg

Apparently you are not aware of the wind and solar plants going up all over?

That type of reactor was first designed in 1958 and to date none has ever been built. Gates is talking with China to try and get them to build it there because so far he has no takers anywhere else.

There are lots of things that have not been built yet. Now that there is bad experience with nuclear that we did build, other ideas will be developed.

 

[freedombecki]

For example, the Republican plan, which proposes doing nothing about anything, is not a free lunch. It's a replica of the Bush plans that left us $17T in debt.

Obama has been in office for almost 5 years, but he thanks you for following your programming and not holding him responsible for anything.

Apparatchiks can't speak anything but the Union Lines. They have no idea how many pork barrels went down under Pelosi, so they can blame the GOP who has done all they can do to hold the line on Obama's load up the armored cars at Fort Knox headed directly to his big money supporters' spendathon sat Taxpayer's expense like Solyndra.

 

[freedombecki]

If we were at the stage of an unoccupied planet, your argument might have relevance, but we're not. We're starting with a civilized planet crowded with people and their infrastructure. All of that was based on the climate that we've chosen to leave behind. How much will humanity and infrastructure have to change to adapt to a new climate?

Depends on how much we choose to change it.

Little to none. Read some history.

There is no history of AGW. There is no history of overpopulated advanced civilizations adapting to AGW fueled extreme weather and sea level rise.

I hear the drones of Litany
That used to toll the bells
Of human-spawned earth warming
Until all these cold spells.

 

[PMZ]

For example, the Republican plan, which proposes doing nothing about anything, is not a free lunch. It's a replica of the Bush plans that left us $17T in debt.

Obama has been in office for almost 5 years, but he thanks you for following your programming and not holding him responsible for anything.

Apparatchiks can't speak anything but the Union Lines. They have no idea how many pork barrels went down under Pelosi, so they can blame the GOP who has done all they can do to hold the line on Obama's load up the armored cars at Fort Knox headed directly to his big money supporters' spendathon sat Taxpayer's expense like Solyndra.

I know that you're trained to not hold Republicans accountable for anything, ever. Not surprising since the propaganda that you choose to immerse yourself in comes from the GOP.

The other thing that it trains you to do is to spin every possible circumstance into Obama's fault. Why? Bring Democrats down to Republican incompetence.

It's failing the only place that it counts. At the polls.

But, there is no other redemption possible for the GOP. So, your orders are to keep on spinning.

I get it. I know how important the freedom to goose step is to you.

 

[freedombecki]

Here's an example of how sustainable energy is attracting private money.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg&desktop_uri=/watch?v=qwRYtiSbbVg

Apparently you are not aware of the wind and solar plants going up all over?

That type of reactor was first designed in 1958 and to date none has ever been built. Gates is talking with China to try and get them to build it there because so far he has no takers anywhere else.

There are lots of things that have not been built yet. Now that there is bad experience with nuclear that we did build, other ideas will be developed.

Do they involve excluding accurate bird deaths caused by monster blades rotating madly on tall pillars and accurate fish death counts and sea mammal sonar malfunctions causing their deaths from merciless underwater turbines? Hint: ornithologists and oceanographers already know the grim answers to those questions.

How inconvenient it must be to the leprechaun greenies.

 

[freedombecki]

Obama has been in office for almost 5 years, but he thanks you for following your programming and not holding him responsible for anything.

Apparatchiks can't speak anything but the Union Lines. They have no idea how many pork barrels went down under Pelosi, so they can blame the GOP who has done all they can do to hold the line on Obama's load up the armored cars at Fort Knox headed directly to his big money supporters' spendathon sat Taxpayer's expense like Solyndra.

I know that you're trained to not hold Republicans accountable for anything, ever. Not surprising since the propaganda that you choose to immerse yourself in comes from the GOP.

The other thing that it trains you to do is to spin every possible circumstance into Obama's fault. Why? Bring Democrats down to Republican incompetence.

It's failing the only place that it counts. At the polls.

But, there is no other redemption possible for the GOP. So, your orders are to keep on spinning.

I get it. I know how important the freedom to goose step is to you.

Projection, projection, projection.

Do evil and blame it on the GOP.

You have your Alinsky methodics in good working order, except for one thing.

America is wise to you, Mr. or Mz. Hoax-of-the-minute.

 

[PMZ]

That type of reactor was first designed in 1958 and to date none has ever been built. Gates is talking with China to try and get them to build it there because so far he has no takers anywhere else.

There are lots of things that have not been built yet. Now that there is bad experience with nuclear that we did build, other ideas will be developed.

Do they involve excluding accurate bird deaths caused by monster blades rotating madly on tall pillars and accurate fish death counts and sea mammal sonar malfunctions causing their deaths from merciless underwater turbines? Hint: ornithologists and oceanographers already know the grim answers to those questions.

How inconvenient it must be to the leprechaun greenies.

How many birds and fish died in one oil platform spill in the Gulf?

 

[PMZ]

Sustainable energy is not a choice. The only choice is how soon we get there.

 

[ScienceRocks]

Our roads kill hundreds of millions of animals. Are we going to give up our ability to drive? The answer is fuck no.

Thank god. This is about the quality of health for humans.

 

[freedombecki]

There are lots of things that have not been built yet. Now that there is bad experience with nuclear that we did build, other ideas will be developed.

Do they involve excluding accurate bird deaths caused by monster blades rotating madly on tall pillars and accurate fish death counts and sea mammal sonar malfunctions causing their deaths from merciless underwater turbines? Hint: ornithologists and oceanographers already know the grim answers to those questions.

How inconvenient it must be to the leprechaun greenies.

How many birds and fish died in one oil platform spill in the Gulf?

Why did Obama make sure the owners of the platform were not allowed to send their investigators in to find out who did what and in fact expropriated the entire rig to people chummy with Greenpeace.

Exactly how stupid do you expect us to be with this convenient "travesty" in which Obama so conveniently got to piss all over the British again after he badmouthed America to all of Europe and insulted his hosts who put him up at their expense while he was in London? Oh, and he's real chummy with George Soros who did all he could to destroy the banks in Britain for petty purposes.

We're sick of your boss's petty politics of get even for resisting Hitler in WWII, who bombed the daylights out of them for not cooperating with his takeover plot and his murder schemas to kill Jews, handicapped, and Gypsies and get rich quick at the same time.

 

[PMZ]

Do they involve excluding accurate bird deaths caused by monster blades rotating madly on tall pillars and accurate fish death counts and sea mammal sonar malfunctions causing their deaths from merciless underwater turbines? Hint: ornithologists and oceanographers already know the grim answers to those questions.

How inconvenient it must be to the leprechaun greenies.

How many birds and fish died in one oil platform spill in the Gulf?

Why did Obama make sure the owners of the platform were not allowed to send their investigators in to find out who did what and in fact expropriated the entire rig to people chummy with Greenpeace.

Exactly how stupid do you expect us to be with this convenient "travesty" in which Obama so conveniently got to piss all over the British again after he badmouthed America to all of Europe and insulted his hosts who put him up at their expense while he was in London? Oh, and he's real chummy with George Soros who did all he could to destroy the banks in Britain for petty purposes.

We're sick of your boss's petty politics of get even for resisting Hitler in WWII, who bombed the daylights out of them for not cooperating with his takeover plot and his murder schemas to kill Jews, handicapped, and Gypsies and get rich quick at the same time.

Your imagination is entertaining. The question is, what motivates your fantasies?

 

[freedombecki]

Our roads kill hundreds of millions of animals. Are we going to give up our ability to drive? The answer is fuck no.

Thank god. This is about the quality of health for humans.

The Kool-Aid line is on another thread, Matthew.
The bird and fish count is conveniently off due to a lack of evidence and the prevalence of predators in the area scarfing up bird and fish bodies before "official greenie counts" can be made. The Ornithologists and Oceanographer societies worth their salt are up in arms over both issues, as green promotional quick-fixes decimate other species besides humans.

 

[freedombecki]

How many birds and fish died in one oil platform spill in the Gulf?

Why did Obama make sure the owners of the platform were not allowed to send their investigators in to find out who did what and in fact expropriated the entire rig to people chummy with Greenpeace.

Exactly how stupid do you expect us to be with this convenient "travesty" in which Obama so conveniently got to piss all over the British again after he badmouthed America to all of Europe and insulted his hosts who put him up at their expense while he was in London? Oh, and he's real chummy with George Soros who did all he could to destroy the banks in Britain for petty purposes.

We're sick of your boss's petty politics of get even for resisting Hitler in WWII, who bombed the daylights out of them for not cooperating with his takeover plot and his murder schemas to kill Jews, handicapped, and Gypsies and get rich quick at the same time.

Your imagination is entertaining. The question is, what motivates your fantasies?

Obama's State Senator and US Senate voting record.

 

[PMZ]

Our roads kill hundreds of millions of animals. Are we going to give up our ability to drive? The answer is fuck no.

Thank god. This is about the quality of health for humans.

The Kool-Aid line is on another thread, Matthew.
The bird and fish count is conveniently off due to a lack of evidence and the prevalence of predators in the area scarfing up bird and fish bodies before "official greenie counts" can be made. The Ornithologists and Oceanographer societies worth their salt are up in arms over both issues, as green promotional quick-fixes decimate other species besides humans.

Who counts road kill?

 

[flacaltenn]

The government role is well beyond the capability of any company.

The government role is well beyond any semblance of continuation of perpetuating its madness of do-all, be-all, and end-all everything at taxpayer's expense by the few criminals in Congress who insist on overextending OTHER PEOPLE'S debt. When they leave as multi-billionaires, they can move out of the country and get off scot-free, while our children have to scramble through life paying for all the money they charged to the people for their extravagant pet rock projects. It's just wrong and it's not fitting to strangle the future because Nancy Pelosi is a spendthrift idiot.

You appear to be absolutely and remarkably misinformed.

Projecting again?

~ zzzzzzzzzzz ~

Amazing how the dedicated statists constantly overestimate the collective scientific/engineering wisdom and abilities of their bureaucracy.. I've been in and out of most every corner of Wash DC funding for science --- and the ONLY BASTIONS of ability and knowledge are MOST of our Intelligience Agencies.. THOSE folks are scary good...

((Also to some lesser extent CDiseaseC, and believe it or not, Weights and Measures. ))

NOT general science like in DOE or USDA. Even the Pentagon and NASA are largely just a procurement center for industrial science and innovation..

Why is that? Well it's pretty simple.. Govt REALLY REALLY NEEDS to do the spying and intelligience function.. IBM has no mission to tap Angela Merkels cell phone.. Or put up satellites for comm intercepts and photo reconnaisance. ((Google might do the later, but isn't gonna favor the areas of the world that the Pentagon wants to watch))

And even in that sector of GOVT science/eng --- there is a heavy ((and incestuous)) relationship with massive amounts of private industry..

 

[PMZ]

You appear to be absolutely and remarkably misinformed.

Projecting again?

~ zzzzzzzzzzz ~

Amazing how the dedicated statists constantly overestimate the collective scientific/engineering wisdom and abilities of their bureaucracy.. I've been in and out of most every corner of Wash DC funding for science --- and the ONLY BASTIONS of ability and knowledge are MOST of our Intelligience Agencies.. THOSE folks are scary good...

((Also to some lesser extent CDiseaseC, and believe it or not, Weights and Measures. ))

NOT general science like in DOE or USDA. Even the Pentagon and NASA are largely just a procurement center for industrial science and innovation..

Why is that? Well it's pretty simple.. Govt REALLY REALLY NEEDS to do the spying and intelligience function.. IBM has no mission to tap Angela Merkels cell phone.. Or put up satellites for comm intercepts and photo reconnaisance. ((Google might do the later, but isn't gonna favor the areas of the world that the Pentagon wants to watch))

And even in that sector of GOVT science/eng --- there is a heavy ((and incestuous)) relationship with massive amounts of private industry..

Why is collaboration between government and industry suspicious?